Atlanta School Eliminates Morning Pledge Of Allegiance

Submitted by: fancylad 4 months ago in News & Politics
Atlanta Neighborhood Charter School, Atlanta Georgia

Hey IABers from other countries, how do your schools handle the pledge of allegiance?

An excerpt from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution: An Atlanta charter school will not recite the Pledge of Allegiance as part of its morning meeting agenda.

Atlanta Neighborhood Charter School on Grant Street announced the change Tuesday in a statement from elementary campus president Lara Zelski.

The decision was made “in an effort to begin our day as a fully inclusive and connected community,” Zelski said. “Over the past couple of years it has become increasingly obvious that more and more of our community were choosing to not stand and/or recite the pledge.”

Students will be given the opportunity to say the pledge at another point during the school day and they will continue to be asked to stand to participate in the school’s Wolf Pack Chant each morning, according to the statement.

“Teachers and the K-5 leadership team will be working with students to create a school pledge that we can say together at morning meeting,” Zelski said.

That pledge, she said, “will focus on students’ civic responsibility to their school family, community, country and our global society.”
There are 43 comments:
Male 3,364
They have reversed the decision, and are now reciting it in the morning again. https://www.ajc.com/news/local-education/atlanta-charter-school-takes-pledge-allegiance-out-morning-ritual/fVGcXbFz4cNy2PQA8vKPJI/
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100
In Australia the kids sing the national anthem, but the pledge of allegiance thing the US does is kind feels Nazi-like...
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2
The pledge originally started just after the Civil War. The intention was to instill loyalty with the union while citizens were still young and impressionable. The "under god" part was added in the 1950's to help fight communism. 
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Female 6,692
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Male 13,274
melcervini Well Skelton was born in 1913 which means he was in 7th grade in the late 20s. Kinda hard to think "liberty and justice for all" could have been said with a straight face at that time. That's the point of paying lip service to freedom, you do it enough and you indoctrinate people to be complacent and not truly fight for actual liberty and justice for all.
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Male 9,336
melcervini Nice idea. What happened to it?
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Female 6,692
LordJim human beings lol
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Male 9,336
Requiring people to publicly pledge alliegance does rather imply that you just don't trust one another.
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Male 1,160
We don't have a pledge of allegiance in the UK, kind of glad about that, it comes across as a bit brain-washy. 
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Female 9,782
Most, if not my grade in elementary school, stopped saying the pledge by the time we were in 6th or 7th grade. I think we found it stupid we had to do it in the first place, and didn't even bother standing up for it. It's a waste of valuable school time and should be eliminated from all schools.
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Male 2,352
In my province we make school children eat donuts, drink a Tim Horton's double double while watching Paul Henderson score the winning goal. They do this every morning unless Lord Stanley's Cup is on -- then obviously they watch the game.
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Male 675
lockner01 Can confirm.
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Male 9,336
When I was working at a research station in Borneo the staff were expected to do the hands on heart as the flag was raised every morning, basically pledge alliegance. I excused myself on the grounds that if I did it would be considered treason in the UK and technically I could be hanged, although that was unlikely. They were fine with that.
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Female 539
"Hey IABers from other countries, how do your schools handle the pledge of allegiance?"

I'm still trying to work out whether that's irony or whether Americans actually think that any other countries make their kids say a pledge of allegiance.

As far as I know it's just you people and North Korea.
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100
DrCribbens Singapore does as well.. yet another overly nationalistic country.. why do you think the US and North Korea met there?
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Male 21,778
DrCribbens it’s not irony. How in the hell would I know what school children do in other countries? Is this information something that everyone else has at the tip of their tongues? 
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Female 539
fancylad Pretty much.

It's pretty well established in the rest of the world that Americans suffer from what Bill Bryson calls 'The London, England Syndrome', meaning that American newspapers have to refer to London as 'London, England' so that their readers won't think 'London... I've heard of that. Is it in Oregon?"
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Male 21,778
DrCribbens This comment absolutely did not answer my question.
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Female 539
fancylad Sorry.

How in the hell would I know what school children do in other countries? 

I wasn't being deliberately provocative. I just thought it was common knowledge. I'm not American or, say, Swedish, but I know that American schoolchildren are expected to swear allegiance every morning and Swedish ones aren't.

Is this information something that everyone else has at the tip of their tongues? 

I thought so, yes. But as I say, one of the stereotypes of Americans is that they generally know very little of the world outside of America.
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Male 9,336
fancylad Yes. Most people know this. It's common knowledge. This only happens in the US and some seriously dodgy places, where the leader's picture is on every wall.
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Male 13,274
LordJim You guys would be SHOCKED how little Americans in general learn about, talk about, or think about other countries. 
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Male 21,778
holygod I don't have a lot of time to commit to the minutia of what kids around the world do with the first 10 minutes of their days in their classrooms. What a fucking dumb American I am. 
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Male 13,274
fancylad I don't necessarily mean you homie. It wasn't intended as an insult.
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100
holygod You mean alien nations? :)
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Male 9,492
DrCribbens Nice to see you in the threads, Dr. Cribbens.

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Female 539
squrlz4ever Thanks. I don't spend much time here at all any more. I just popped my head round the door as I was passing and got sucked into a discussion with MonkWarrior, but I've pretty much given up on that because so far it's consisted almost entirely of

Me: It goes dark at night.
Him: You're just making assumptions.
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Male 9,492
DrCribbens So I've noticed, alas.

The endless, pointless back-and-forths between MonkWarrior and others were grating on everyone's nerves. I think we've made some real progress in addressing that. Of course, anyone is free to enter into debates with anyone they choose, MonkWarrior included, but if productive arguing isn't taking place--as distinct from mere insults, evasion, attitude, and the like--mods have been intervening.

Did you catch my visual allusion above?
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Male 13,274
DrCribbens We like being in exclusive clubs, like the Fahrenheit Club with Bahamas, Belize, Cayman islands, and Palau, or the Imperial System Club with Liberia and Myanmar, but especially the Nuclear Weapon Used on People Club. We got that one all to ourselves. U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.!
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Female 539
holygod I think the UK has a special membership of the Fahrenheit club. Brits tend to use Celcius for low temperatures and Fahrenheit for high temperatures. I think we're the only people who can use both measurements in the same sentence and everyone knows what we mean. 

"It's freezing out there! It must be 5 below! Not like last week when it was 75 in the shade."
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Male 9,336
DrCribbens That is true, we just use metric or imperial as we feel fit. 
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Male 13,274
LordJim I did hear a British person saying their weight in pounds and I was surprised.
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100
holygod Wait until you hear them go into a hardware store and ask for a 3m 2x4 timber
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Male 13,274
DrCribbens Hmmm. I did not know that. Cheers. 75 celcius would certainly be on the toasty side, but I live in Phoenix, so it isn't all that much worse. ;)
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Male 2,183
I was in fourth grade before I realized that I had been pledging my allegiance to a flag.
After that I refused to say the words and was sometimes punished for it. But while I was in High School the words "under God" were added, and that was the last straw. I wrote my own pledge, and I recite it whenever I feel obligated to say something.
"I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the people whom it serves. One Nation, under Canada, with liberty and justice for most."
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Male 340
OK, here goes the most balanced and sane observation on this topic, to finally put to rest the entire debate (end sarcasm).
On the one hand, having children recite the pledge is not exactly "educating" them, but rather "conditioning" them, in my humble opinion. So I would be in favor of teaching them what the pledge is, maybe during a history lesson or civics class.
But the idea that she school with ditch one pledge for another is silly. Their argument is that they are being inclusive? I thought the pledge did that to begin with, no?
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Male 13,274
I always thought the pledge of allegiance was weird and creepy. I don't think other countries do them. If you travel you notice very quickly other countries aren't as obsessed with their flags as we are with ours. I don't think public schools where I live even do it. My kids go to a charter school.

I've told my kids they don't have to do the pledge if they don't want to. 

1. I don't want them joining this mindless indoctrination that reeks of hitler youth.
2. I want them to have allegiance to those they care about, and most importantly to their principles. People who blindly follow and align with their country, even when their country is doing wrong are lemmings. It's how we re-write history on the atrocities our country perpetrates and paint everything in sparkling red, white, and blue.
3. I don't believe in god so I'm no more likely to say god in a pledge than a christian is to say zeus.
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holygod On flags - when I was travelling across the US, I found that in commercial areas, flags were used about as much as back home in Australia. The occasional shop would use the flag to appeal to patriotism, but it wasn't all that common.

But in residential areas, here in Aus, if you have a flag you're a weirdo that should be avoided. In the US, it was weirdly common to have flags in the front yard. As I travelled the country, I came to the opinion that a "high patriotism" place was where as many as 1 in 4-5 houses had a flag in the front yard somewhere...

... and then I got to Pittsburgh. Holy fuck. The suburb I where I was staying in Pittsburgh had 1 in 4-5 hours that didn't have a flag in the front yard. Even the graves in the graveyard (on the way to the local pizza place) were festooned with flags and bunting.

As for the pledge of allegiance, it's really weird that the "Land of the Free" demands your sworn allegiance. It's really sad brainwashing. Again, travelling the US, almost every time I heard the word 'Freedom', you could hear the capital F. 'Freedom' isn't a concept in the US, it's a national religion, and you have to worship Freedom the right way. Other countries I've been to see 'freedom' as a concept, one which means you can do whatever, but when a patriotic American starts crapping on about Freedom, it's a religious experience and woe betide you if you want to behave in a manner they don't like...
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Male 13,274
barry9a I love the opening scene of The Newsroom. Check it out. Americans LOVE to tell people how free we are or that terrorists "hate us for our freedom". They have no concept of how many countries are as free if not more free than we are. In fact willful ignorance and freedom pride seem to be Americans' two favorite concepts.
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Male 2,831
holygod Hey hg. Can I have all your money? It all says One Nation Under God and I'm pretty sure the founding fathers weren't referring to Zeus. Just askin. I work for Bezos so I'm under paid and over worked.
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Male 13,274
scheckydamon You must not have much because then you'd know it doesn't say "One Nation Under God" anywhere. ;)

It does however say "In God We Trust". I'm fine with that. I don't begrudge people and their silly superstitions. The world is a difficult place, take solace where you can.

The founding fathers weren't referring to anyone, as they did not put it on the money. They would probably be disgusted by the fact that our money says that, but oh well. It has only said it since 1957 as a way to differentiate our country and our economy from communism at the beginning of the cold war. 

Also, to be honest, I have little to no cash. I have maybe $60 in the house to pay babysitters and such. The rest of my worth is in gold, comics, stock, property, and digital bank accounts, none of which mention god. You're welcome to the $60, but you gotta come here to get it.
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Male 2,831
holygod Ok so I got the quote wrong but you got my drift. $60 bucks, I’m on it. But I think my associates, Vinnie and Guido, could find a little more than that. As to our founding fathers being disgusted, no I don’t thing so. The were mainly Protestants and Episcopalians so God was real important to them. Today, not so much. They would be disgusted 2ith the lack of God in people’s lives today.
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Male 13,274
scheckydamon I got the drift, that's why I winky faced. More than that cash? Nope. Not in my house. I mean obviously I can go to the ATM and turn my godless 1s and 0s money into "in god we trust" paper money. 

Many of the founding fathers believed something, but they more strongly believed that the government should not impose beliefs on people. A bible has NO place in a courtroom, and god has NO place on our money. There's a reason it didn't happen for almost 200 years.

God isn't mentioned once in the entire Constitution. He is mentioned once as "creator" in the Declaration of Independence, but not specified to any particular faith. It was written by Jefferson who was a deist. If they wanted god to be mandated I'm guessing they would have mentioned it.


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Male 9,336
We don't really do pledges in my neck of the woods. Maybe in the Salvation Army, maybe the cubs still go dib-dib-dib.

But in normal life if you ask anyone to "pledge" anything most people will respond with hostility.
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