These Two Guys Were Arrested At A Philadelphia Starbucks

Submitted by: fancylad 7 months ago in News & Politics



The crime: The two were waiting at a table for the rest of their party (the guy in the grey vest) to meet up with them. Being black didn't help.
There are 200 comments:
Male 3,114
I thought it's always sunny in Philadelphia
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Male 572
I have always asked if I could wait and never had a problem.  It eliminates any misunderstanding. I have even been offered something to drink while I waited. Some businesses understand true hospitality.
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Male 18,342
Update: Manager was fired.
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Male 24
Issue here I believe is not to create new victims just in order to protect possible victims. So, while racism is an issue, and while people need to be vigilant in order to protect people against it, it also should be noted such a delicate situation can and will be used by people with not-so good intentions. So, we also need to be vigilant of false wolf-criers just as well as racists. So, while we need to protect and defend any possible victims of racism, we also need to be VERY clear BEFORE we call someone racist. That's my two cents anyways..
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Male 9,632
After reading all the facts of the story, they were loitering.  There's rules against it, if this rule isn't enforced all the time then we have an issue but from what I've seen thusfar this is standard procedure.  I have no problem with it.  Their business their rules.
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Male 70
normalfreak2 Starbucks is literally the one place you can *continuously* loiter. They literally advertise themselves as your third place. I have been in different ones many hundreds of times, buying nothing, and no one has even glanced at me sideways while I bust out my laptop and stay there for 8+ hours.
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Male 10,137
devthep And that's just being annoying.  They are a business.

I'm not a Starbucks fan. I do not drink coffee and there's nothing else there I'm interested in.

BUT, had to stop to use there WiFi for some urgent business that didn't take me 15 minutes to complete, and I made sure to buy something  before I sat down.
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Male 4,069
normalfreak2 
Loitering, then trespassing when they refused to leave when asked.
Still, ain't never heard of this happening to white folks.
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Male 9,632
captkangaroo So upon further facts released.  The time between their arrival and the cops being called was 2 minutes.  I have to say, I have a problem with that.  I think I'm siding more on the customer's side now.  
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Male 4,069
normalfreak2 
When one is asked to leave a business, one leaves. It is standard procedure however, for folks to argue. 
If you asked someone visiting your home to leave and they argued with you, how quickly would you call the cops? Not someone you are related to, not someone you know - say, a friend of a friend, but had never met before.
If someone is on my property, at my business, and does not leave when asked, cops would be the least of their worries.
As I also said, one does not hear about this Starbucks incident happening to white folks.
I think though, there is fault on both sides of this particular incident.
Don't you?
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6,909
Let's keep in mind loitering is part of Starbucks business model.
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Male 1,634
dm2754 After you have purchased something, not before.

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Male 70
waldo863 I've been in hundreds of starbucks thousands of times. For business meetings, VC meetings, friend hangouts, just to work, etc. In well over half of those times I've never bought a single thing. I'm white, though. 
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6,909
waldo863 I have a lot of people not buy anything
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Female 246
fancylad - I appreciate the rewrite of the title.  
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Male 1,856
Would it have killed these guys to buy a frigin coffee?
Coffee shops in inner cities LOCK their bathrooms because they get taken over by drug users, drug dealers, and homeless lowlifes.  A GOOD test is...if they buy something...they are clean enough to use the bathroom.

I am 100% on the owners side in this one.
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Male 9,632
spanz You may want to rethink your position.  Time between their arrival and the cops being called was 2 minutes.  You really think that's a good response from the Store Manager?  That's quite the escalation.
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Male 70
spanz It sounds like you have never, and I mean literally never, been in a starbucks before.
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Male 781
spanz Maybe they didn't have 12 bucks....
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6,909
spanz they were planning on it but wanted to wait till the rest of their party arrived. You know the way the rest of us do.
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Male 1,634
dm2754 at a restaurant yeah, but a coffee shop?  You have to wait for your party to order?  I've never seen that happen.  That's like saying if you and your friends are going to a bar you gotta wait for everyone to be there to order your first beer.  That's not true either.  You can order a coffee at a coffee shop while waiting for your friends to arrive.  You can order a beer or a shot while you are waiting for you friends to arrive at the bar.  This is not a fine dining, or even medium dining, or even a fast food joint.  It's a coffee shop.
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Male 21
waldo863 People usually have tabs at bars not at coffee shops so that's not exactly an apples to apples comparison. We also do not know what exactly happened or how long the two gentlemen were 'loitering'.
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Female 246
Additional details:

Commissioner Richard Ross said Starbucks employees called 911 to say the men were trespassing. He said officers were told that the men had come in and asked to use the restroom but were denied because they hadn’t bought anything, as he said is company policy. He said they then refused to leave.

Ross, who is black, said police asked the men to leave three times but they refused, and they were then arrested but were later released after the company elected not to prosecute. He said the officers ‘‘did absolutely nothing wrong’’ and were professional in their conduct toward the individuals but ‘‘got the opposite back.’’ He did not mention the person who said he was meeting with the men.

‘‘As an African American male, I am very aware of implicit bias; we are committed to fair and unbiased policing,’’ Ross said. But he added, ‘‘If a business calls and they say that ‘Someone is here that I no longer wish to be in my business,’ [officers] now have a legal obligation to carry out their duties and they did just that.’’

Ross said he doesn’t patronize Starbucks but recalled an incident from a few years ago in which a uniformed sergeant was denied access to a Starbucks bathroom “so they are at least consistent in their policy.”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/04/14/philadelphia-police-chief-officers-did-nothing-wrong-starbucks-arrest/518123002/
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Male 9,632
datastrom Let's break this down further.  

At a glance, what happened at that Philadelphia coffee shop last Thursday looks like racism. But there’s little context. Does the manager also routinely call the police on white people who loiter in the shop? If a white manager called the police on two white guys hanging around a coffee shop, it wouldn’t make the news, much less become a national obsession. Was the manager new on the job and unfamiliar with the generally lax policy at Starbucks when it comes to allowing nonpaying customers to hang out? Did the manager have some reason we don’t know about for disliking the two men?

All we know now is that the two gentleman walked in, one asked to use the bathroom and was denied.  2 minutes later the police were called.  Do you believe 2 minutes is/was the time to consider these two gentlemen as loitering?  Sorry But this looks more like a race issue than anything else seeing as we had 3 other people in that store that were loitering but the cops weren't called on them.
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Male 190
datastrom You forgot to mention that Starbucks issued an apology to the two men, and wished the incident had not led to their arrest. 

I appreciate the fact that people on this site are sensitive to fake-news articles and want to fully know facts before jumping to conclusions. However, so many comments in this thread seem to go out of their way to suggest that race-baiting is more of an issue than racism itself. There are plenty of legit reasons to assume that this was simply another case of being black and having the rules be different for you, based on horrifying shit we see on the news every day. I don't see how posting a video that went viral and touches on a very sensitive nerve should be considered 'fake racism'. The fact that people are filming and posting every instance of this kind of thing shows a raising of awareness that may have not existed before.       
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Female 246
popsicle01 Starbucks apologised due to the PR.  Their policies were in place and this lead to the eviction of the men.  

No purchase, lead to no usage of bathroom, lead to loitering, then lead to trespassing.  

I doubt it's about awareness but more about followers and clicks.  A quip I've heard previously states it well, the demand for racism exceeds the supply.
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Male 190
datastrom That quip sounds like it might originate from someone who has not been subject to overt (or even casual) racism all of  their lives. Can you at least concede that you and I might not necessarily see it/experience it as often as it actually happens? 
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Male 1,634
popsicle01 I can agree that it likely happens more than many people, myself included, think.

However, it did not happen here.  People will say it did.  In arguments down the road when it's been forgotten by most, "remember it happened at Starbucks a few years ago," some people will be saying, when it didn't.

All that happened here were some guys asked to use the restroom without having ordered anything and got asked to leave.  I am white and the same thing has happened to me at a Starbucks.  I was supposed to be meeting someone there, but they bailed.  Called me and told me they wouldn't be there.  So I went in to use the restroom before I drove home.  I was not going to be ordering anything at all, so they asked me to leave.

I have no doubt in my mind if I had done not walked to the convenience store next door and just went and used their bathroom anyway, or stayed sitting at a table, they would have had me trespassed too, and I'm white.


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Female 246
popsicle01 It definitely happens, there is no doubt about that.  Racism is a large issue within pockets in America.  The question I think that is relevant is is it happening with this incident.

Many of the -isms need to be stopped but many people use them as a platform for their own ends to show how progressive and amazing they are rather than to help those who've been discriminated against. 
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Male 580
  Another fake racism post. This got tiresome a long time ago. 
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Male 675
There isn't enough to prove that this was a legit situation for arrest or not via a simple, single Tweet.

But damn is there a IAB circlejerk for anyone who doesn't go along with the intended theme on here.  I hope some mods go through these comments because the bullying, antagonistic personal attacks, and slander against users who disagree are getting out of hand.  This has been apparent for a few months now. 
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Male 5,277
Beaverfever Indeed.
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Male 6,320
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Male 6,320
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Male 2,195
I don't know what went on in this Starbuck's before the video starts, so I can't have an informed opinion about it. But if this comment section were a Starbuck's, and I were the manager, I would tell holygod and datastrom to order something or take their hissyfit outside.
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Male 361
Stupid fucking pigs.
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Male 6,320
prichards114 wigpigs?

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Male 7,499
At least they were not shot
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Male 83
...another comment thread dedicated to Monkwarrior...lame 
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Male 45,620
So, we only have the 3rd hand version of events from someone who wasn't actually involved.
Makes me wonder what we do not know about the situation. What was their behavior while
sitting there not ordering anything?  Were they challenged by staff to order or leave and if
so how did they respond?

Seems unlikely they were arrested just for sitting still and doing nothing.
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Female 246
Gerry1of1 I agree.  It's a growing suggestion of cognitive bias on this site for clicks.  We don't know the background of the situation but people automatically infer a racist element.  
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Male 7,283
Gerry1of1 Cognitive dissonance is a bitch lol.
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Male 45,620
daegog    Cognitive Dissonance is just another way to say "Double Standard" 

And yes, we all have them.
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Male 7,283
Gerry1of1 Well if by double standard you mean black people cannot sit in starbucks and wait, i suppose I agree.
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Male 45,620
daegog Not what I said at all.  I was just saying that's what CD means.  As for the 2 young men, my remark was we don't really know what happened.  Don't read into it more than is there
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6,909
Gerry1of1 it's not uncommon for restaurant owners to tell certain customers that they are to take their food and leave and can't  eat inside the restaurant because they feel it will be disturbing to other customers.
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Male 2,755
At his point we have know Idea what led up to it, if the store was in the wrong we will here about it, and if the patrons were in the wrong we will here about it.
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Male 781
I love that the video picks up at the end so we don't see what happened. If the manager of the Starbucks wanted them out of the store the police have no option. if the men refused to leave, police have to handcuff them and take them out. Either it was a setup, or the manager is going to get fired, but the police were not in the wrong here.

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6,909
Shelworth very true.  

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Male 13,280
Shelworth I agree the police were not in the wrong given what we currently know.
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Male 18,342
holygod I don't think the police were at fault. They were called to attend a case of trespass. Nobody got beaten or shot.

What's in question is why  They were called and whether white people waiting for a third party would have been treated the same by management.
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Male 1,124
Crime is... Breathing while black. 
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Male 7,283
I'm quite relieved they weren't killed.
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Male 2,755
daegog    Once again need I point out how many people have contact with the police every day and don't get killed? If these guys were doing nothing and got hassled by the police they appear to have done the right thing just comply with there instructions, and there chances of not getting killed are vastly improved.
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Male 18,342
If that was the manager's stated reason, he deserves the lawsuit coming his way.
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Male 13,280
Hey datastrom , please come tell us again how "black" had nothing to do with this.
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Female 246
  • 3.2. "The Vegas Rule"
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Male 6,502
datastrom
4.14. Do not interfere with IAB moderation.
...do not discuss the Community Standards, their violation, their enforcement, or anything else related to how this website is moderated. Such discussions are likely to be contentious and detract from the entertainment mission of the website.
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Male 22
holygod 
I do not know if any of you care or not, but this is exactly the sort of arguing that is a personal issue between a couple of people and it fills the threads with nothing but animosity and conflict and is destroying this site.

Why don't you all agree to not like each other and just avoid each other and stop purposefully dragging each other into arguments.  Your actions here are a direct attempt to drag an argument from another thread into this one which is one of the rules of conduct.

So please, let's just all agree that we'll never change the other's opinions and stop instigating conflict.
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Female 246
Reebo A mature comment.  I respect that.
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Male 13,280
Reebo 

1. Arguing is fun. It's one of the reasons I come here.

2. You've made a grand total of 16 comments, how vested in the comment section could you possibly be?

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Male 919
holygod 

Reebo has a point

3.2. "The Vegas Rule"
The Vegas Rule can be summarized as follows: "What happens in a thread, stays in that thread." More specifically, it means every thread is a fresh start and users are not allowed to attack other users based on something that occurred in another thread. Using The Vegas Rule, moderators will judge the behavior of users in a given thread solely by what has transpired in that same thread.
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Male 5,277
jayme21 I'm not sure those rules apply to certain birds of a feather.
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Male 9,632
trimble The Rules are applied evenly to the community, no one is exempted.  
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Male 919
trimble that attitude ended causing havoc with he who shall not be named... Speaking of which there is a user here who reminds me of them.
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Female 246
holygod You're quite a petty person when outmatched intellectually.

You still haven't proven racism in the other posting.

As for this posting, a twitter video with no background information, it's flamebait also.
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Male 13,280
datastrom "outmatched intellectually", is that what you think you've done? LOL.
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Female 246
holygod Considering you've avoided the topic of conversation in almost every post I would say yes, I have.  It was exceptionally easy also.  I'll wait for that proof when you're ready.
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Male 13,401
datastrom that's hg's nature, deny, insult, mock, claim intelligence (but show anything but)
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Male 45,620
monkwarrior     [thinking]  Not sure I want to know Monk's opinion of my nature lol
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Male 13,401
Gerry1of1 you're a trekkie and so am i what more is there to say?
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Male 7,499
monkwarrior Most Trekies and Trekers I know are very fine humans and will not be farmed
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Male 13,401
thezigrat that's good to know
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Male 7,283
monkwarrior Has it been a rough 4 hours monk?  You are doing the EXACT same thing that you said markust was doing.  Do you think there is strength in numbers against holygod?
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Male 13,401
daegog I was simply pointing out hg's nature, since i'm quite well versed with it.  Just one person is required to take on hg.
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Male 7,283
monkwarrior but when markust points out your.. lets say debating peculiarities, its some how different?
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Male 13,401
daegog they wanted to try side with, and defend, someone who was clearly in the wrong, and couldn't.    I was simply providing datastrom, who i noticed only had a few hundred posts, with information about hg's nature.  completely two different things.
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Male 7,283
monkwarrior So tldr: You feel your opinion of HG has merit but markust opinion of you does not?


Also, I will go out on a limb and say that HG would not agree with any statement about his nature anymore so than you would agree with his statement of your nature.

I will go further out on a limb and guess most IABers would not agree with your assessment of their nature, wouldn't you agree?

I bet they would even be willing to give testimonial evidence (which you find clearly hold in high regard) to this fact.
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Male 13,401
daegog the tl;dr version is: i provided datastrom information about hg, markus tried to side with someone caught in a fallacy.

Hg's problem is his inability to correct his errors, instead choosing to hold to them with fits of rage.
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Male 190
monkwarrior fallacy *drink*
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Male 13,401
popsicle01 So you drink over stuff you don't like too, ok issues-man.
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Female 246
monkwarrior It seems so.  Disappointing.
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Male 13,401
datastrom see: insults \/
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Male 6,320
monkwarrior see v /\
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Male 13,280
datastrom Hey you found an intellectual compatriot with the flat Earther, LOL, good job!
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Female 246
holygod Have I?  Because I agreed with him with regards to your "debating" tactics?  Is this along the lines of you stating anyone who answers the door with a gun is a racist?  I'll call them holygodism, the act of feigning intelligent conversation with juvenile derailing tactics.

I'm still waiting for that proof you keep trying to deflect from.  Instead of hiding behind other users why do you not provide some solid reasoning?  
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Male 13,280
datastrom would you like solid reasoning? How about 400 years of racial relations in America? Is there 100% proof this was racial? Nope. Can one look at history, at the situation, at what was said and come to a conclusion that race probably played into it? I think so. At the very least race deserves to be party of the conversation and therefore it deserves to be part of the title.
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Female 246
holygod Zzzzzzz.  I'm not interested in your whataboutism.  The topic was proving racism in that specific post.
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Male 13,280
datastrom It wasn't. Find where I said the situation was driven by racism. The topic was whether "black" deserved to be in the title. It is a factor worth being in the conversation, plain and simple. 
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Female 246
holygod Your stalling tactics are evident, you can't prove your position and have resorted to moving the goalposts repeatedly.  Even fancylad changed this posting to not include race in the subject line which I respect.

You lack articulation and attempt to make up for such with low level manipulation and derailment.  I commented and continued because it was the right thing to do, racism isn't something to take lightly for clicks and likes.

You have continued to comment because you wish to save face and not bring attention to your inferiority complex.  Take some time off IAB and go educate yourself.

Datastrom 1 : Holygod 0

Here's a meme:

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Male 13,280
datastrom what's important here is what you believe your own version of reality to be. Enjoy it.
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Female 246
holygod Thank you for the sage advice.  I am a true believer that a wise person can learn more from an idiot than an idiot from a wise person.  
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Male 13,280
datastrom Well, I have learned a lot from you. Thanks. One important thing is that I have learned talking to you is a complete and total waste of time. You are just like 5cats and monk, the perfect combination of moronic and cocky.
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Female 246
holygod Self-reflection would be a boon.  Unfortunately your bigotry will ultimately be the reason for your loneliness.  
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Male 13,280
datastrom Yes. I mean I have a wife, children, a close family, friends, and employees. But one dipshit on the internet doesn't like me so I am overwhelmed with loneliness. 

The first comment I noticed of yours was correcting someone's spelling and each subsequent comment has lowered the bar even further. You're another in along line of internet bigshots who is a great mind only in their own fantasy. Crown yourself the smartest person in the world, I couldn't care less.

Go ahead and have the last word, I'm done wasting my time with your self righteous drivel.
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Female 246
holygod

I've never seen a grown man take a internet tantrum before.  Today is the first.
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Male 190
datastrom *an internet tantrum
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Male 9,632
datastrom Usually people that have to use Ad-Hominem attacks  usually don't have a salient point on the topic at hand.  Just saying
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Female 246
normalfreak2 Duly noted.  Fortunately this doesn't invalidate anything given to date thus far.
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Male 13,401
datastrom agreed.
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6,909
It's a well-known fact that being a minority on a weekday is a misdemeanor.
I think we've all been picked up at least once for this.
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Male 7,499
dm2754. If you think that is bad try being an alien during the age of Trump
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Male 2,836
thezigrat Nothing personal here Ziggy but for an alien that wears his ass on his face, I think you should take every day you don't get disintegrated a gift. You do stand out in a crowd.
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Male 13,401
#NationInFreeFall

The land of the brave has become the land of the fearful and terrified.
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Male 190
monkwarrior #nationinfreefall *drink*

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Male 18,342
popsicle01 you will be the death of me. My liver curses you.
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Male 13,401
popsicle01 So you drink over stuff you don't like too, ok issues-man.
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Male 7,499
monkwarrior Some one has to
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Male 13,401
thezigrat its your life
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Male 6,320
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Male 13,401
rumham how is your synthony coming along?
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Male 6,320
monkwarrior how is your sadness coming
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Male 13,401
rumham quite under control, i'm a happy and joyful person.
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Male 1,124
monkwarrior #pedopriests #shutthefuckupalready #yourgodisscum
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Male 1,867
bearbear01 Ew, didn't know he was a pedo.
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Male 1,124
marsii he certainly doesn't seem fazed by it. 
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Male 13,401
bearbear01 whatever you say '01, keep whining.
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Male 190
monkwarrior You do realize that the 01 in people's names here are assigned by the site, right? Most likely due to usernames being taken or variations of them being too similar. There's not an 01 club or anything. 
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Male 13,401
popsicle01 interestingly enough many of the '01'ers who reply to me of a very similar mindset.. trollish.
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Male 1,124
monkwarrior I'd take whining over your incessant stupidity.

On seconds thoughts, interesting that a mention of pedophile priests makes you use the word "whining". Very telling. The devil is in the details. Much like your evangelical cousins, who'd forgive crime if that advanced their agenda, your fundamentalism is transparent. 
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Male 13,401
bearbear01 oh make no mistake, the whining stupidity is clearly your own, especially with a desperate self-delusion like you just put out.
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Male 1,124
monkwarrior and now you confirm the obvious. You're no different than any other fundamentalist whacko. Your whole package? Not original, and not new. Yawn. 
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Male 13,401
bearbear01 yawn away desperate troll.
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Male 1,124
monkwarrior whatever, dense idiot. 
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Male 13,401
bearbear01 run along '01'er
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Male 7,499
monkwarrior. "Whinning" ~ Drink~
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Male 6,320
thezigrat clutch grasp goalpost western media fallacy group dynamics delusion desperate freefall a number of words straws insults
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Male 7,499
rumham Add whinning to the list he has used it several times in this thread
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Male 6,320
thezigrat i've clutched it to my list of grasps
1
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Male 13,401
thezigrat drink all you like, surprising how many people on I-A-B turn to alcohol to try drown their troubles.
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Male 13,280
monkwarrior yes. Because racism doesn't exist in any other countries. If only we all followed the bible, there is nothing racist in there.
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Male 13,401
holygod thanks for agreeing with what your nation has become.  You would do well to follow Christ's teachings.
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Male 13,280
monkwarrior I do follow christ's teachings. I think he had some great ideas. Too bad they had to be obfuscated by a huge book full of bullshit.

You guys should have just dropped the old testament and written about Jesus. I would have been on board with that. Jesus is great. His dad is the fucking prick.
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Male 13,401
holygod Then you don't follow Christ's teachings, because He said "Have faith in God".  Dishonesty and insulting is one of your only fortes it seems.  Intelligent, not.
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Male 13,280
monkwarrior Nope. He never said that. Shockingly enough, 4th generation, mistranslated, eye witness testimony is not always reliable.
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Male 13,401
holygod said " Nope. He never said that. "

Thanks for proving your dishonesty:

Mark 11:22
"Have faith in God," Jesus answered.


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Male 7,499
monkwarrior And God never told Abraham not to sacrifice his son. Abraham followed the order of a mere Angel over an order from God
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Male 13,401
thezigrat Did he kill his son?
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Male 7,499
monkwarrior God told him to kill his son but did not tell him not to
He defied God by taking the word of an angel over the Command of God
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Male 13,401
thezigrat How do you know that God didn't tell that angel to tell him not to?  you don't.
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Male 7,499
monkwarrior Abraham had no proof of that
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Male 13,401
thezigrat he knew
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Male 190
monkwarrior Gods are not real. We've already discussed this in detail. That's ok, I forgive you. 
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Male 13,401
popsicle01 Since you have no evidence for your positive claim, what you said can be dismissed.  Spoken true to the '01 form.
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Male 9,632
monkwarrior We've had countless discussions before.  The Bible is NOT a scientific document, you can't "PROVE" the things in it actually happened as stated.  You have to rely on "faith"
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Male 13,401
normalfreak2 It's testimonial evidence.  I have never said it was a scientific document.  It also contains procedures to help people find God, and while they are old procedures, they are very much able to be followed today.  I have faith, but i also know of God's existence, because unlike people who try to make excuses to not explore its deep lessons, i've actually explored them to find Him.
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Male 7,499
monkwarrior. Testimony is poor emperical evidence
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Male 13,401
thezigrat testimony evidence is a part of the definition of evidence.
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Male 190
monkwarrior I would like to publicly testify that you are annoying. BAM! evidence.
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Male 13,401
popsicle01 indeed it is, however it's lacking (and clearly biased in your case).
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Male 190
monkwarrior Your indication that my testimony is lacking and / or biased is lacking, and indeed biased, and will not be admitted as evidence. Therefore, you are annoying, and I win. Actually, we all lose on account of the annoying response you will post in a few minutes.
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Male 13,401
popsicle01 see, you proved my point.
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Male 7,499
monkwarrior. Incorrect. Testomony suffers from loggical errors, perception errors, memory errors, translation, litteration errors, personal biassing, subjective errors, guessing, in other words
Poor emperical evidence
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Male 13,401
thezigrat Actually you're incorrect.  Evidence:

ev·i·dence
ˈevədəns/
noun: evidence
1
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.


As i said,  testimony evidence is a part of the definition of evidence. 
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Male 7,499
monkwarrior Facts or Information Not non emperical testimony
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Male 13,401
thezigrat so your issue is selective reasoning, i see.  it all makes sense now.
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Male 7,499
monkwarrior circular definitions are not definitions. Nor is testimony a viable emperically provable evidence
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Male 13,401
thezigrat its a definition from the dictionary.  Unfortunately for you it proves you wrong.
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Male 9,632
monkwarrior  I have faith, but i also know of God's existence, because unlike people who try to make excuses to not explore its deep lessons, i've actually explored them to find Him.

And to those that don't believe in faith or take testimonial evidence as factual evidence?  Also those that have explored and found it to be lacking,  I've actually explored them and DIDN'T find God.  Why am I wrong and you are right?
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Male 13,401
normalfreak2  long answer short: personal incredulity
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Male 9,632
monkwarrior You realize you are subject to a Logical Fallacy as well?  A few of them actually

1)Argumentum ex silentio
2) Appeal to Faith
3) Argument from Authority

Just to name a few.
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Male 13,401
normalfreak2 You wanted an answer, you were given one.
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Male 13,280
monkwarrior I don't accept your source as legitimate. 
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Male 13,401
holygod I understand it's your nature, so it doesn't surprise me.
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Male 13,280
monkwarrior My nature to not obediently believe unprovable, ridiculous, bullshit because it is spoon-fed to me as a child? Correct. That is not my nature.
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Male 13,401
holygod again you're dishonest.  You obediently believe unprovable, ridiculous bs because it was spoon-fed to you as an adult by your national broadcasters. You've demonstrated this many times already.
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Male 7,499
monkwarrior. Evolution, physics, biology, chemistry and geology are far more proveable than a magic man in the sky
And have led to more discoveries and new places than anchient mistranslated myths 
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Male 13,401
thezigrat God is provable, but it takes humble people to find Him, as scripture states, God resists the proud and haughty.  The very things you're posting.
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Male 7,499
monkwarrior And the insects have 4 legs
Eating shrimp is an abomination
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Male 13,401
thezigrat whatever you say.
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Male 7,499
monkwarrior That IS according to the Bible
So humans are supposed to totally accept the words on blind faith alone about the nature of the universe from a group of poorly educated people who could not pass a kindergarden zoology test?
Good thing our race evolved beyond the need for such primitive beliefs
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Male 13,401
thezigrat ah yes, another person who clings to the Old testament, ignoring the New.  We've been with the New Testament for over 2 millennia now, don't you think it's about time to get with the times?  After all, it's been in effect for several multiples of your present lifespan already.
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Male 9,632
monkwarrior Why do you discard the Old Testament?  You call out thezigrat for quoting it.  The problem is the Old Testament take up your issues with your God for continuing to leave things up to interpretation.
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Male 13,401
normalfreak2 I don't discard it, but i point out people who cling to it and use it to insult, when the New Testament has been around for over 2 millennia.  They only show their own ignorance by doing such.
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Male 13,280
monkwarrior Yes. The only reliable source of information is the youtube channel of some random guy working out of his basement with a tenuous grasp of reality.
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Male 13,401
holygod sounds like your grasp on reality is questionable.
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Male 190
monkwarrior grasping at stra...aw, crap so close. 
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Male 7,499
popsicle01 Drink anyway 
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Male 13,401
popsicle01 trolling and '01'ers almost go hand in hand on I-A-B.
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Male 13,280
monkwarrior Keep thinking you are the only one that knows the truth. It isn't at all a sign of mental illness.
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Male 13,401
holygod oh cranky teenage-tantrum mode is back, i see.  Time for someone's nap, hopefully you can wake up as a more sensible adult.
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Male 13,280
monkwarrior "sensible adult"? You mean believing in imaginary friends and thinking the Earth is flat? OK.
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Male 13,401
holygod  "sensible adult" as in rising above your nature to deny, insult, mock, be dishonest, and claim intelligence (but show anything but).  Throwing teenage-tantrums as an adult while purposefully being dishonest leads me to believe you're very insecure about your world-view, but at the least quite desperate to protect its fragility.
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Male 13,280
monkwarrior I love being lectured on apparent intelligence from a flat earther that can't do 4th grade math. You are making my night. Please tell me more oh great one.
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Male 13,401
holygod Keep insulting, you're only sinking yourself lower and lower.  Its sad to see a grown man delude themselves with lies like you have, especially when people have clarified the error of your delusions many times.  It's like you're a poster child for dunning kruger at its finest.
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Male 13,280
monkwarrior Don't try to use words you don't understand. You do realize that if there was a survey on here for which member is the DK poster child you would probably get 85% of the vote right? 
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Male 190
holygod Hey, a survey like that would be 'testimonial evidence', yes?
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Male 13,401
holygod you should take your advice and not try to act as 'learned' on a topic you don't understand, for example the equation 6/2(1+2), or Christ's lessons.

Resort to your fallacies and desperate grasps all you like, ultimately it leads you to:


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Male 13,280
monkwarrior Do you understand that if you are stupid, you are too stupid to know you are stupid?
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Male 13,401
holygod I'm well aware of your 'intelligence', are you trying to project again?
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Male 13,280
monkwarrior I'm just asking you if you understand that if you were in fact stupid, you wouldn't be smart enough to know it. I am very aware of that fact, which is why I base my intelligence not off my own perception, but off that of others, outside testing, and what I have achieved with my intelligence. You seem to base yours solely on your own opinion of yourself. Seems rather, what's the word? Stupid.
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Male 13,401
holygod lol keep projecting your own stupidity on me, you might be buying your delusion, but i'm not.  I haven't seen you achieve anything with your 'intelligence' here on I-A-B except for a teenage-tantrum throwing adult.  Remember, the words you use can tell wiser people a lot about your level of intelligence, and it's safe to say it's not what you think it is.
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Male 13,280
monkwarrior notice how everything always comes down to just your opinion? What YOU think? If you were stupid and didn't know it.....
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Male 13,401
holygod Notice, how it comes down to what you think, or what group dynamics has drilled into you?
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Male 13,280
monkwarrior It doesn't. Try to pay attention to what other people think of you. It is a pretty good gauge. 
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Male 13,401
holygod No it's not, because stupid people like yourself aren't even remotely sensible.  It seems like you've clung to the stupidity foisted on you by your media.  But like normalfreak2 said, shut up already.
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Male 9,632
monkwarrior holygod 

Looks like nothing has been moved to today, let's keep it that way please.  
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