"There Is No Hell"? Pope Francis Weighs In.

Submitted by: normalfreak2 9 months ago in Misc News & Politics Weird


                                               


According to The Guardian:

Updated | Catholic Pope Francis made a startling revelation Thursday by stating that hell did not exist, in an interview with a leading liberal Italian newspaper.

In an article titled “It Is an Honor to Be Called a Revolutionary," La Repubblicafounder Eugenio Scalfari acknowledged the pontiff's previous remarks about how "good souls" who sought repentance from God would receive it and then asked, "What about the bad souls?" Seemingly going against centuries of core Christian belief, Pope Francis said the souls of sinners simply vanished after death and were not subject to an eternity of punishment.

"They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear," Pope Francis said, as translated by Catholic blog Rorate Caeli.

@trimble has another perspective on this from cnsnews.com


With that said the Catholic Church challenging the exact wordings between these two:  

Shortly after the article was published, the Vatican issued a statement that claimed the article was "not a faithful transcript" and that the meeting between Pope Francis and Scalfari was a private meeting and not a formal interview.

"What is reported by the author in today’s article is the result of his reconstruction, in which the literal words pronounced by the Pope are not quoted. No quotation of the aforementioned article must therefore be considered as a faithful transcription of the words of the Holy Father," the Vatican said in a statement translated by the Catholic News Agency.






There are 55 comments:
Male 18,342
The Vatican has clarified that the Pope totally didn't say this heresy and so the reporter must have misquoted the detailed conversation.
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Male 46,093
So in the Great Debate everyone was right.
Christians who believe go to heaven.
Atheists who don't just fade away after death.
Win / Win
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Male 1,319
Gerry1of1 as long as I get enough time to pull Ted Dansons toupe off, before fading away into oblivion, i'll be happy.
Oh, and some frozen yogurt before it ends would be cool as well. Mango, preferably, but strawberry would do in a pinch. Either would be a perfic desert after a nice hawain pizza.
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Male 54
That settles that! The Holy Father has spoken....No wait! the Vatican/Catholic News Agency, trumps the Popes declaration, issuing a filtered explanation so as to keep their followers in line with their long standing doctrine on Hell.
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Male 2,194
DAMN YOU POPE!!!

Oh wait...
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Male 1,249
No hell eh? In that case, IT'S TIME TO SIN BABY!
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Male 13,505
rammo34 There's still eternal death.
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Male 2,793
monkwarrior   I'm an atheist I figured that one out when I was 15, this all so reinforces what I have said about religion in general, for years, that there biggest trick is to convince you that you can live forever. 
   Immortality what a concept. 
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Male 13,505
casaledana the heart of religion is love.
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Female 6,818
IMHO Catholicism is one of the biggest fucked up cults ever invented.
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Male 9,691
melcervini NOt really much different from any other sect of Christianity.  Evangelicals, Mormons, Catholics, all are just as crazy as one another. 
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Female 6,818
normalfreak2 not much no, but at least the protestant offshoots dont have these condemning strictures, hair shirts, forced celibacy, what you can/can't eat/who you can marry (ex: you're catholic and want to marry an atheist or protestant you get kicked out of your church) and where, how often you HAVE to confess your sins to another flawed human being (who then tells you that if you chant to Jesus' mother 35 times you'll be sin-free again, etc.)  Way too many 'man-made' rules shoved in there to control the masses. (no pun intended)
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Male 1,210
melcervini Agreed, the further you look into it the more deranged it seems.
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Male 7,517
There's no hell?

Tell that to a little altar boy getting raped by his catholic priest every saturday afternoon.
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7,047
daegog or you could tell him that God will forgive the Rapest and the boy will get to see him again in heaven 
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Male 587
daegog Before I even looked, I knew there would be anti-Catholic bigotry here, for some reason it’s acceptable by a lot of commenters on IAB. And before you get confused and allow your hate to cloud your reading comprehesion skills and accuse me of defending pedophilia like you did before, that comment was not a defense of child rape.
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Male 1,210
DerryNH The catholic church has an awful lot to be ashamed of and in my opinion deserves very little respect as an organisation. They have caused misery and upset the world over through antiquated beliefs and yet still claim infallibility. I have a distaste for organised religion in general but catholicism is pretty damn high on my list.
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Female 6,818
DerryNH I try not to be bigoted (thus my IMHO), I just don't 'get' the validity of a religion that requires you to pray to another human being for absolution, or pray to the deity's human mother over the deity himself? wtf?.  If God is omnipotent, he/she/deity/wtfe doesn't need earthly lackeys to speak for them and you certainly dont need a go-between.  Last time I checked, god gets pretty jelly about things like that.
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Male 7,517
DerryNH anti-catholic or anti-pedo?  Did i say all catholics are pedos?  Are we gonna pretend that catholic priests aren't raping alter boys?  Are we gonna pretend that catholic priest isnt a great career choice for a pedo?
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Male 13,505
daegog there's eternal death.
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Male 3,051
He's never met my wife.
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Male 276
Comment deleted -- account created with temporary email that was automatically deleted. User unreachable to verify account.
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Male 1,319
moldysod lol, exit stage left.
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Male 284
moldysod So it legit was a sock puppet then? That's pretty funny.
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Male 13,505
aegis1294 no i think they were just banning people who didn't use a real email.
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Male 9,691
monkwarrior No we don't just ban people who don't read e-mail.  Moldysod is 5cats.
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Male 6,503
normalfreak2 it’s not a matter of the user not reading an email, the moldysod account was created with an email from a site that gives you a temporary email address that is deleted ten minutes later. The user could not be contacted to prove they are legitamate because the email is purposely no longer valid. Fancy discovered this when checking for sock puppets.
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Male 13,505
normalfreak2 i still don't think it's them.
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Male 18,342
moldysod regarding mod comment above..  haha
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Male 13,505
This is basically what i was saying just the other day.

The idea of a 'hell where people go and are tortured so that means God is bad' (the common misconception and whine of most internet atheists), is completely wrong.

Summarized from what i put there:

The reality is it is eternal separation from God, and that means eternal death: no awareness, no hearing, no sight, no senses at all.  Complete, utter non-existence.  Even the enemy of humankind knows this, but won't tell those who are caught in their snare.  

How can we know or reach this conclusion?  The answer is by the way of God's love.

The first thing to keep in mind about the Holy Bible is that it uses 3 different meanings for 'hell'.

  1. The first meaning of 'hell' is Sheol (Hebrew), which means Hades (Greek), which means "the grave". This is the most common usage of 'hell' in the Holy Bible. Quite simply, this is the place where everyone goes when they die.  They die, and then they are placed in a grave.  That's it, it's that simple.
  2. The second meaning of 'hell' is Tartarus (Greek), which means "the imprisonment of demons or fallen angels".  This usage of 'hell' in the Holy Bible only occurs once, in 2 Peter 2:4.  Peter writes this to refer to the Greek Mythology regarding the abyss where rebellious gods were confined to explain what he means.  He means this 'hell' is not for humans at all, but rather it's the 'hell' that the enemy of humankind, demons in league with them, along with sinful and fallen angels, were confined until the time of judgement.  The Holy Bible says that that place of confinement is here, on Earth.  In essence, we are living in hell (Tartarus), as it is the confinement of the above entities, however this their 'hell' as they had been cast out of heaven.  Christ even confirms this when He tells us the ruler of this world is the enemy of humankind.  This is also the ONLY 'hell' where any are alive (again, not applied to humans).
  3. The third meaning of 'hell' is Gehenna (Greek), which refers to the valley outside of Jerusalem.  During Christ's mission here on earth, He taught people in and around Jerusalem.  He referred to this valley because it was a place where where garbage, bodies of criminals, and dead animals were thrown out and consumed by fires or maggots that were there.  This 'hell' Jesus referred to was not one where people were alive, writhing and being tortured.  They were already dead.  He was using this as an analogy to describe what happens to those who do not flee wickedness and sinfulness and reject God.  This 'hell' (Gehenna) is the one that inspired many stories of 'people burning in hell'.  It's not scriptural sound.  In fact Jesus spoke of this 'hell' in Matthew 10:28: "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell".

In essence Hell is an separation from God, as all 3 meanings of hell indicate.

Now with that said, lets look at the nature of God. In 2 Peter 3:9 we can learn that God is the God of love, who doesn't want any to perish, so God doesn't want people to be tortured or tormented.  Also in Matthew 5:44 we can even learn from Christ who asks us to love our enemies.  So it's clear that God and Christ's nature is to love, and torture isn't part of that, as exemplified with the woman caught in adultery who was brought before him: he forgave, didn't punish.

Jesus doesn't speak of people suffering everlasting torment, He makes it clear, that God can destroy both the body and soul in 'hell' (Gehenna) fire.

Some other notes:
-Death is only temporary because God can raise the dead to life again.
-When God destroys one in 'hell' (Gehenna) it is eternal death (The second death).
-The Bible explains that sinners are cast into the lake of fire, (Gehenna) at the end of the age. (This is why there will be a weeping and gnashing of teeth, but it won't be eternal torture, just one final suffering before non-existence).
-God said the wicked will perish (be destroyed).
-God has the say over who inherits eternal life or eternal death.

The bottom line, everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.  Your only saving grace is to trust in Him to save you, and do your best to follow His word and love one another, flee wickedness, and embrace righteousness. 

 
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7,047
monkwarrior why don't you let us know that there really is a hell when you get there
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Male 13,505
dm2754 already told you what you need to know.  it's eternal death or eternal life, take your pick.
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Male 6,503
monkwarrior If you have to resort to scare tactics to sell your religion something is wrong with you or the religion.
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Male 13,505
markust123 it's not scare tactics, just the facts.
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Male 9,621
monkwarrior We clearly see the world and indeed the universe in very different ways,  but that's fine.  May I explain my position?

The  chances that I would be born at all were infinitesimal and yet here I am.  And not only born but born in the 20th century in a stable,  prosperous country to capable and loving parents. Healthy and with a curious mind. I spent my childhood roaming Northumberland and made friends who are still my friends after half a century. I was very well educated ( for free )

Then,  I lived in strange lands ; crossed deserts,  climbed mountains ( including a couple of volcanoes ), swam in tropical oceans and coral reefs. I have seen eclipses and the northern lights,  I have slept in the long-houses of the Dayaks and seen whales breaching off the Orkneys. Attack ships burning off ... no, scrub that one.

I have made love to beautiful women on three continents,  tried strange food and even stranger drugs.  Spent a few days in jail now and then. 

I married a woman I loved beyond measure,  saw my child born and felt her tiny perfect hand close around my finger and heard her crying still and knew my purpose in life.  I saw her grow into a young woman of whom I am immensely proud.  

I took on a job which made lives better and I was bloody good at it for a long time.

If  I die tonight and your god decides I deserve to be snuffed out of existence I will have no complaints ( obviously,  given that I won't exist ).

How greedy would I have to be to ask for more?  I was lucky; satis.
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Male 13,505
LordJim It appears we don't see it as differently as you think.  But there is plenty more to experience, and you haven't seen all of creation which will be even more amazing.  Having the means and the vessel to see it all, and without any attack ships or anything like that to wreck it, as all the people like that will no longer exist.
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Male 9,621
monkwarrior I don't really feel the need to experience all of creation.  I understand that the thought of an eternity of exploring the universe exites you but I would get quite bored. I would happily trade you a hundred billion years of exploring the universe for a three second hug from a friend. 
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Male 13,505
LordJim But that will be there too, in fact, it's a given.
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Male 9,621
monkwarrior Sorry,  the attack ships thing was a Bladerunner joke. Thought you might have seen it ;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOSIj_AxxX0
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Male 13,505
LordJim its been a while since i saw it, i get it now
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Male 190
monkwarrior So, hell essentially is non-existence. Like what you and I and everyone experienced before we were alive, which is that we didn't experience anything. That sounds about right. You experienced eternal death before you were born.

Do you relish the idea of eternal life? That is weird and creepy to me.
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Male 13,505
popsicle01 The difference between the second death and before you were conceived, is that after the second death you have no hope, but before you were conceived you had all hope of finding eternal life (instead of eternal death (aka: the second death)).
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Male 190
monkwarrior Seriously though, the first few thousand years of heaven might be really great.  But what about the 49 billion 303 million 842 thousand 212th year? Are you still just hanging around basking in the glow of god's light? Are you even a person anymore at that point? You know how you have a favorite restaurant and then you go there too much and then all of a sudden you don't really want to eat there anymore? That shit all happens within a fiscal calendar year.

Haven't you seen the fucking Highlander, or any vampire movie? Eternal life is a curse.
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Male 13,505
popsicle01 It may be a curse in a world of sin.  However in righteousness and holiness it will be quite amazing.  I doubt it will ever be boring, as people can come up with new things and there is more to see.  It wouldn't surprise me if it takes millions of quadrillion years to explore everything.    I suspect if anyone ever wished to not live God would grant that, although i don't see why, as there would never be sadness, or depression, or wickedness.
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Male 284
monkwarrior I don't think one can truly realize happiness without also experiencing sorrow. Happiness all the time is not happiness, its just normal plain vanilla boring. The Idea of a perfect heaven would be fun for me, maybe for like a week in earth time, however I would get bored of it extremely quickly.
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Male 13,505
aegis1294 Everyone who inherits eternal life will have lived in this world of sin.  Every single person will have memory of how it was when sin was among us.  Every single person will be happy keeping it in the past, and in memory, as every single person will have a reason as to why keep it away.
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Male 9,621
I'm fine with vanishing.  
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Male 5,887
Eugenio Scalfari is 93 years old and writes these articles based on "non-interviews" in which he does not record anything or take notes; but then later writes the article from what he "recalls was said at the time".  I take this whole story with a very large grain of salt.
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Male 9,691
kalron27 The Vatican's response isn't an overwhelming denial, I think that gives this SOME credenece.  It may not have been the exact words, but I agree I take it with a grain of salt.
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Male 4,558
You can choose a ready guide
In some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears
And kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that’s clear
I will choose free will.
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Male 146
DuckBoy87 I was watching a documentary on Rush a couple of weeks ago. I found out that most of these lyrics were inspired by the writings of Ayn Rand. Anthem and side one of 2112 especially. That was Neil's thing the other guys seemed a little less keen on it. 
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Male 4,558
drwhowho That's actually really cool, and quite telling. I do enjoy the story 2112 tells.
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Male 619
DuckBoy87 STYX............hell ya DuckBoy87.......I read it and liked it and then I said wait.....I know that.....hahahahaha.......;p
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Male 4,558
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Male 619
DuckBoy87 HAHAHA......you're right.....I was a little stoned earlier, I knew I knew it was a song from somewhere and STYX was the first thing that came to my mind and I figured that was it. I had just listened to Snowblind from Styx earlier on the I-pad....guess I should smoke a little less before I play what's that lyric huh........;)
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