Today's Florida High School Shooting Is The Deadliest Since Sandy Hook

Submitted by: daegog 11 months ago in News & Politics

The shooter, Nikolas de Jesus Cruz, 19, is the guy in the burgundy t-shirt.

At least 17 people were killed Wednesday when a gunman opened fire at Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. That makes it the deadliest school shooting in the US since the 2012 Sandy Hook massacre that killed 26 people in Newtown, Connecticut.

According to law-enforcement officials, the alleged shooter, identified as Nikolas de Jesus Cruz, 19, is a former student of the South Florida high school, and one math teacher identified him as having been perceived as a threat in the past. “We were told last year that he wasn’t allowed on campus with a backpack on him,” Jim Gard, the teacher, told the Miami Herald

“There were problems with him last year threatening students, and I guess he was asked to leave campus.” Cruz reportedly used an AR-15 rifle during his shooting spree—the same weapon used by Adam Lanza during the Sandy Hook massacre.


There are 191 comments:
Male 68
5cats Show me a law that will stop the next mass shooting? You're joking right, what about the laws the UK and Australia passed after they had a mass shooting and subsequently haven't had one since? 

I don't really give a fuck, I live a long way away where my kids go to school and I know they aren't going to get shot and killed. It's a nice feeling, you might like to try it some time.

All I'm.saying is with each mass shooting in your country, the continued rhetoric used to protect gun ownership is making your country a bigger and bigger laughing stock on the world stage. And your continued blasè attitude towards children getting shot is like something out of the fucking third world. 
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Male 276
ImaginaryN Listen here eurocuck, why don't you go tend to your women getting raped in the streets by all the "immigrants" you so lovingly take in? Or how about suturing the wounds of all your white stab victims in your police state "knife free" zones? You suicidal bastards can keep your social ideologies to yourselves for the next ten years, which is how long it will take to fully replace you with the muslim hordes, who by the way won't be on board with taking all the weapons away. 
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Male 1,961
moldysod 5cats why do you bother switching accounts?
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Male 68
moldysod Deflection, nice tactic, my 9 year old uses it too.

Check the statistics mate, the rate of rape in the US and the rate of knife crime is largely comparable to the UK. So if we have a problem, you definitely have a problem. 

Any comment on the actual point though?



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Male 326
As long as law-abiding adult citizens, with no criminal record or questionable mental history can legally purchase a gun without prejudice or undue infringement, I'm all for reasonable laws that make sure those who do not fit this description don't get them. But that alone is not going to stop this kind of thing.

Apparently, the FBI KNEW about this kid and didn't locate him. Schools aren't engaging these kids who are predominantly social outcasts. How do they not know who the social outcasts are? They're the ones sitting in the cafeteria by themselves, or outside killing animals on lunch break! Lunch Monitors are our first line of defense! Adult citizens have the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms, not children. It is ok for the police / social services to visit a home and interview parents and inquire whether any weapons are properly stored and evaluate a family's risk. This is NEVER discussed on TV. 

MSM does it again: All the guns or none of them. Pick your side.   
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Male 42,934
johndplorable Enforce the existing laws before adding more laws that won't get enforced anyhow. 
A 'radical' idea that the liberal-left utterly rejects!
EVERYONE KNOWS that more laws make for more safety! Right! I mean... Left!
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Male 326
5cats lol! Well said.
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Male 7,525
Nightly News is reporting, he initially strolled out of the school with the rest of the kids.

Went to Subway, Walmart and McDonalds, then some cop picked him up on the side of the road cause he had the same clothes on.

If he wore a mask and a jumpsuit during the shooting, he probably wouldn't be in jail today.
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Male 42,934
daegog And?
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Male 68
I'm not sure that there is another civilised country which is so utterly afraid of itself than America is.

The second amendment, forgive me if I'm wrong, was created for the sole purpose or maintaining an armed militia to protect from foreign invaders 250 years ago when America was still a fairly 'new' country.

This seems to have been bastardised to then mean citizens can bear arms to protect not from foreign invaders but from their own government!!

The militia bit has been lost over the years and now Americans just see it as an all encompassing right to own and carry a weapon which is totally and utterly not in keeping with what the constitution says. How can you want to protect the constitution so badly when you essentially purposefully misinterpret and twist it for personal gain. Bizarre.

The French went through something similar, around the same time, during their revolution. The citizens rose up against the aristocracy and the ruling few, stole all the guns and ammo they could lay their hands on, killed a load of people and overthrew the oppression of the governing classes.

After that happened they rewrote their constitution, but funnily enough, didn't write in a right to bear arms so that they could do it all over again. They had faith in the people, in each other and in the democratic process. They weren't scared. 

America could learn a thing or two from that.
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Male 5,344
ImaginaryN You are just interpreting the Constitution the way you want it to be. Anyone who has actually studied the Constitution and how to read it knows you are wrong. Very wrong. You don't read the Constitution like a bedside Novel. You must study the writings of the day in order to understand the vernacular for one thing, right down to the use of upper/lower case, punctuation and phrasing. And you need at your side a good dictionary, one that has meanings dating back to the time of the framing. To actually study the Constitution is a daunting task but well worth it if you want to understand it.
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Male 2,850
ImaginaryN No.  It was created from the start as protection from without as well as within.
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7,056
For everyone who thinks more gun control laws are the answer I propose a better solution.
Why don't we just pass one law that makes it illegal to kill people that will solve everything. 
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Male 13,445
dm2754 So. Much. Stupid.
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Male 6,337
holygod quantum derp
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Male 9,692
Donald Trump says REPORT REPORT REPORT.  


Okay Trumpians, Trump Repealed the Obama law and signed HB40 which repealed Restricting guns from Mentally Unstable, people who are not in control of their own factulities.  Evidently this guy would have been caught in that dragnet had this law been still in place.  

It just further confirms Trump's Say one thing, do another.  He undermines his own messaging with his actions.

srchttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221
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Male 33
normalfreak2 I cannot let this comment stand unchallenged.

First, it was not an "Obama law," it was an administrative rule, unilaterally enacted from the executive branch.

Second, House Joint Resolution 40 (not HB40) did not "...repealed Restricting guns from Mentally Unstable, people who are not in control of their own factulities."  It repealed a NICS block reporting requirement for people receiving social security benefits for a mental health disability that were having another person manage their finances.

Third, if this were really putting guns in hands of "Mentally Unstable" people not in control of their own faculties, why was HJR40 supported by the ACLU, the American Association of Americans with Disabilities, the National Council on Disability, the National Association for Rural Mental Health and 16 other mental health advocacy groups?  Oh, but the NRA supports it too, so it must be evil.

All laws and administrative functions are complex.  Those regarding gun tend to be even more complex because of the technical issues.  Those regarding mental health are extremely complex because there is not a hard line on what is mental illness.  Making broad, over-simplified statements regarding these issues does not help, it only makes the debate more contentious.
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Male 42,934
MISafetyman NF2 always plays "fast and loose' with things like the facts and the truth.
IE: whatever the DNC tells him is a fact? That's his fact. & etc.

He is always for 'rounding up' those who oppose the socialist utopia and 're-educating them' ...Stalin-style. Or Mao, he's not too picky.
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Male 9,692
MISafetyman I wasn't able to see who supported or who didn't, but you are correct it's HJR40.  

Second, House Joint Resolution 40 (not HB40) did not "...repealed Restricting guns from Mentally Unstable, people who are not in control of their own factulities."  It repealed a NICS block reporting requirement for people receiving social security benefits for a mental health disability that were having another person manage their finances.
If they were receiving Government assistance they were able to be put on a list.  NOthing wrong with that.
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Male 33
normalfreak2 "Nothing wrong with that."  Except for being blatantly unconstitutional, no.  Whether you like it or not, owning a firearm is a constitutional right.  To remove or abridge rights, there must be due process.  Having a mental health disability is not the same as being violently insane.  There was no due process to determine if there was any cause to prohibit the individual from possessing firearms.  There was no process at all.  The reason I mentioned the ACLU supporting this move is because the ACLU does not, in general, recognize the second amendment as an individual right.  Yet even they saw the administrative rule as overbroad and wrong.
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Male 118
MISafetyman Just the same as banning people who are on the no fly list from purchasing firearms.  There is no due process and no recourse.  Good luck getting through to many of the people on this site.  Most of them are anti-gun to the point of being willfully dense about it.  All gun laws are unconstitutional.
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Male 42,934
starzokc Correct, the NFL is a joke, and using that to remove people's human rights would be something NF2 and his hero Stalin would support.
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Male 9,692
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Male 2,850
What needs to happen to help prevent this kind of thing?....three letters.   DAD.  The stats on crime, abuse, behavioral disorders, involvement with drug at an early age, HS dropout rates....all of these are staggeringly high for kids without fathers.  The stats on single motherhood rates have jumped since the 60's...20 to over 70 percent in the black community....5 to over 40 percent for whites.  Kids need dads and those who don't have one are the ones who grow up to do this kind of shit.  But yeah IAB...let's take the easy argument that it's the gun.  
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Male 9,692
dromed His Mother and Father died.  What then?
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Male 2,850
normalfreak2 I know.  He and his brother were adopted and those parents died when he was about 5.  I don't have a solution to "people die", nobody does but it doesn't negate the stats on kids without dads.
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Male 7,525
dromed Black people are not doing the majority of these mass shootings.  They have fewer father figures around there fore there should be MORE black mass shooters right?  They should be at least equally represented if a lack of fathers was the primary issue.

Now im not suggesting black people are crime free, not at all, but the crimes/shootings are typically focused around standard things: drugs, robbery, territory, retaliation etc.

You theory destroys itself with just a glance.  You can pretend its the lack of fathers that  is a primary reason for these shootings, but as they say "That dog don't hunt"
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Male 42,934
daegog Blacks make up 16% (?) of the US population so FUCKING DUH they aren't doing the majority of this specific kind of shooting. Dumbass...
However? they are VASTLY over-represented in murders and gun violence of all sorts. 
Your dog is dead, stop beating it.
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Male 2,850
daegog Dude...black people commit murder at a rate much more vast than any other race in the country.  So they don't specialize in shooting up schools?  Well good for them there!  But a few more fathers around might fucking help in other areas...ya think?  You're the one with dog that don't hunt.
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Male 7,525
dromed Having more fathers around might help.

A system where young people could get reasonable/low cost health care and higher education might help too.

Less fast food might help too.  Less violence in movies and media might help too.  Less access to military grade fire power might help too. Less obfuscation about mass shootings might help too.

There are tons of things that might help, your theory, however, about fatherhood is just wrong.  Correlation does not imply causation.
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Male 2,850
daegog  "Having more fathers around might help."   "Less fast food might help too.  Less violence in movies and media might help too. "

Yes, let us equate a father in the home with fast food and movies....do you even hear yourself when you speak?  

I'm not trying to stir up "internet bullshit"...I'm seriously trying to get you to think logically.  Do you seriously think that having a father or not makes no difference in the life of a child?   


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Male 13,445
dromed He didn't say schools, he said mass shootings. Black people kill people for a reason. Not saying it is a good reason, but there is a reason. They don't tend to arbitrarily go to a public place with the intention of killing as many people as possible.
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Male 42,934
holygod Heck no! They just bang-bang each other to protect their drug turf, to avenge their fallen gang-mates, increase street creds or to rob people. All good, justifiable reasons!
And if a few little kids or other innocent people get caught in the crossfire or downrange? Well too bad! Reasons!!

Just because Blacks tend to kill less than 4 at a time? Doesn't make them any less killers than whites... the FBI stats are clear.
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Male 13,445
5cats So I say "Black people kill people for a reason. Not saying it is a good reason" and your argue wit me by saying: "They just bang-bang each other to protect their drug turf, to avenge their fallen gang-mates, increase street creds or to rob people. All good, justifiable reasons!"?

That seems odd. I see no reason to be sarcastic or even argue with what I said. It was 100% accurate.

The FBI stats ARE clear. Any stats are clear. Black people are far more likely to commit murder than white people statistically speaking.

However, the comment he made was not about murder, it was about mass shootings.
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Male 42,934
holygod And that Blacks don't do "the majority" of mass murders... because they are no where near the "majority" of the population. His comment was so stupid it was painful :-)

I know what you're saying, I think, but it is irrelevant isn't it? I mean the mass killers also "have reasons" right? It isn't based on skin colour...
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Male 13,445
5cats " His comment was so stupid it was painful :-)" 

Not really. He was just responding to Dromed's comment. Dromed said less fathers = more mass shootings. Daegog simply pointed out that black people have less fathers so there should be a corresponding higher rate of mass shootings among black people. There isn't, so the reasoning seems faulty.
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Male 42,934
holygod On that specific topic perhaps, but since Blacks are highly over-represented in mass shootings? Not mass killings? It is valid. They are 2 different things.
Dromed did not say mass murders or mass shootings, he said "this kind of thing" so it WAS daegog inserting the stupidity into the conversation. The "majority"... oy!

And they certainly are over represented in all-around murders, we agree on that yes? Why is that? 
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Male 13,445
5cats 

"Blacks are highly over-represented in mass shootings?"

They are? According to whom? 

"Why is that?" 

Poor people are more likely to commit crime. Black people have a higher rate of poverty. It's pretty simple.

Decriminalize drugs and take away that revenue stream and crime / murder in the black community will plummet.
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Male 42,934
holygod Shootings where 4+ people are INJURED = mass shootings.
Shootings where 4+ people are KILLED = mass murder or mass killings.
Plenty of mass shootings in Chicago alone... almost all by Blacks.

Poor people are NOT 'more likely' to commit crime. They are more likely to get caught though.
Greedy people are much more likely to commit crime, and there's no race, colour or wealth distinction on greed :-0
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Male 13,445
5cats "Poor people are NOT 'more likely' to commit crime."

Well, how are we defining crime? Poor people are MUCH more likely to commit theft or violent crime. 
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Male 42,934
holygod There are a LOT more "poor" than "rich" (the 1% or even the 10% ok? vs 20-30%). Proportionally? The poor do crimes which have a much higher chance of getting caught. But the rich still commit a hell of a lot of crimes, just different types.

When a rich guy defrauds investors out of hundreds of millions of dollars? How many 7-11 robberies does that counter? 1? is it 1:1 for hundreds of millions VS $50? 

Poor people all over the world are some of the kindest, most honest citizens you'll ever meet. Poverty doesn't "cause" crime ok? Greed does.
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Male 13,445
5cats Well I have no problem with poor people if that's what you think. I don't think poor people commit crime out of greed, I think they commit it out of desperation. If you grow up poor with little opportunity or education often crime is the only revenue source that is readily available.
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Male 42,934
holygod I disagree entirely. Poor folks are among the most law-abiding anywhere. They also tend to be more religious. Look at "middle class" crimes: the kids are out of control on booze and drugs, but rarely get caught because the parents' lawyers keep them out of jail. And thus off the stats sheets too.

It's a matter of proportion: how many poor are there? How many rich? Who is doing what crimes?
It is FAR more a matter of culture.
Hell, I'm so poor the "poverty line" is like a pole-vault bar to me!! I don't run around shooting people or robbing convenience stores... I work in one! Well a gas station/store :-) 
Owned by a native lady btw... I also worked for her daughter before, both are super-nice.

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Male 5,242
dromed oh yeah ,dads kill people.
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Male 5,242
The first official comment from authorities is that the guy was mentaly unstable and insane. Ohh wow, it's a good way to put fuel on a fire. So some 'murkin can explain me how is it possible that a mentaly unstable, a fool, a deranged can have such an easy access to weapons? 
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Male 21,778
piperfawn When Trump signed a bill revoking the Obama-era gun checks for people with mental illnesses, that was a clear message about the direction things would be going in for the next four years.
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Male 5,242
fancylad 4 years? The world hopes less. For US citizens over all.
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Male 9,692
fancylad HJR40
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Male 7,525
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Male 794
When the Afghan mowed down 19 people in Australia did you point out who took money from Suzuki? 
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828
Shelworth It's so sad that people of your mental capacity are now in charge of the US.
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Male 794
daegog I don't get the connection....Now if he took money from the "Lets get rid of our mental health system" people, then you would have something...
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Male 7,525
Shelworth Well ok, why do you think the NRA gave Rubio and other politicians MILLIONS of dollars?  You cannot hazard a single guess?

Why do you think ANY corporation/lobbyist gives money to politicians?
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Male 794
daegog The same reason anyone gives money to a politician...What's your point?

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Male 42,934
Shelworth He has none, he's just repeating his DNC talking points like a faithful parrot.
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Male 9,692
daegog Thoughts and Prayers
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Male 9,692
mikesex Great clip!
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Male 5,892
mikesex  Excellent video.  And I sure as hell miss that man :(
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Male 403
kalron27 You, me and the civilised world. 

Hang in there, mate..the good guys always win (WWII took 6 years!)

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Male 42,934
mikesex Stalin/Lenin? Mao? Pol Pot? Castro?

No dude, the good guys do not always win...

And Obama never does answer the question BTW... he sets up a decoy and 'answers' that, poorly though.
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Male 403
5cats This is a post about school shootings in the USA.

But Obama..but her e-mails..

Twat..that's you that is.
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Male 42,934
mikesex "(WWII took 6 years!)"

You're the fucking model of staying on fucking topic. Fuck.

School shooting... WW2.. same fucking thing!
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Male 625
mikesex Great link mike....no matter what people thought of him as president he is speaking 100% truth in this clip...thanks again for the link I had not seen this one before.
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Male 1,124
https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/530116130
These are the tax filings of the NRA. The CEO is making a killing: 2004's compensation (page 34 if you look at the tax form), 600K to the pocket. 2015's compensation (page 21 of the tax form) 5 mill. In the summary in the link you can see a clear trend upward.
So to all those fools spouting idiocy about the second amendment, look in the mirror. Are you being compensated increasingly through the years despite more and more mass shootings being made public? No, right? You are a tool. You're the useful idiot of La Pierre and his puppeteers.
Now, 5 million is not that much in today's world? It's still a lot, but yeah, it's not that much. But hey, the life of your children is not worth more, I suppose. Good news, though. Thanks to your unwavering stupidity, it will be worth more as the years pass and the shootings continue. Cha-Ching. 
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Male 13,505
Male 6,337
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Male 938
FOR FUCKS SAKE AMERICA
Guns are good, M'Kay...

This is why the universe is laughing at you. Your government does not have balls. The opposition party does not have the balls.

Your govt parties just need to man the fuck up, and agree that guns need elimination. And you the American citizens, need to SHUT THE FUCK UP and realise that you are being TOLD; its not a debate.

The USA would probably have the population of India or China if they actually looked after their citizens.

Actually in hindsight -- keep shooting each other, it is the American Way....  (also dont implement Medicare, that will just hinder your own "self genocide")





Dickheads.
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828
stifler It's too late. There is no quick fix. It took decades of hysteria-mongering to get to this point, and it's going to take just as much concerted effort to get back to normal. The US has really internalised "Problems are best solved by a man with a gun". Foreign policy? Man with a gun. Law and order? Man with a gun. Life problems? Man (teen) with a gun.

I mean, how fucked up and crazy is it when people seriously propose giving teachers sidearms? Nowhere else in the world does anyone do that with a straight face.

We need to rescue the sane Americans; sponsor a yank immigrant today, my countryman!
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Male 1,961
marsii Oops, that's the old article. New one here.
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Male 7,525
fancylad

Suggestion, after a bad event like a school shooting or a trump anything, put up an open forum thread, shouldn't leave it on downers.
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Male 13,505
ex-FBI agent breaks down air "A Child of God is dead"

right he is.  such a sad, preventable tragedy.
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1,111
As much as I want to rant about how Americas fucked up gun laws lead to the regular occurrences of situations like this, I know fine already from previous discussions that many IABers are far too arrogant to understand.

you can blame deranged individuals all you want, but as of recent times children in Afghanistan are safer at school than children in America. Let that sink in.
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Male 42,934
layla_wilson Because Americans ( and a few other nations) with guns are protecting those kids there... and by 'recent' you mean last year? And that would only be IN school since the rest of Afghanistan is still a battle ground...

America is far safer per capita than many nations with strict gun laws, let that sink in...

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Male 21,778
layla_wilson rant away, anything you say would be true. american's should be fucking embarrassed about this. america loves to crown itself #1 yet it doesn't look out for it's own. it's humiliating. 
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Male 7,525
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Male 42,934
daegog So... you'd rather NOT have a gun to defend against someone that HAS a gun?

What are you going to use? Harsh language? :-0

Or will criminals be too afraid of breaking the law to use a gun when they break into your house to rob and rape your family? Sure wouldn't want 'gun charges' on top of that eh?? They'll leave their guns at home!!!
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7,056
daegog yes because we all know criminals obey the law.
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828
daegog Jim Jeffries points out that those fuckwits who crap on about protection really aren't interested in it. They're not salivating over magazines that show security doors. It's 100% about the 'man-toys'.
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Male 1,961
daegog ah, don't worry. The NRA will tell us what really happened in the morning.
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Male 5,892
Just Stop
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Male 13,505
kalron27

It can stop.

It takes just 4 simple words:

  1. DEATH
  2. TO
  3. THE
  4. PRESIDENCY

Gather at your government houses nation wide.  Repeat these 4 simple words over and over joyfully and peacefully.  Grow in numbers.  Persist.  And once you reach the threshold of people who won't back down,  it will stop.  Then you'd have taken your nation back, and can instill new governance.

Isn't it the home of the brave, or is that now just a stale platitude?
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Male 140
For chrissakes... Did any of you see the information that many people actually  suspected him to be the killer, and that he had a history of killing small animals.  Not to mention that both of his parents are dead.  He is a deranged individual, and you asshats are blaming the tool.  It is never a matter of personal responsibility is it... 
You want to stop school shootings?  Put three armed veterans in every school.  There are thousands of unemployed trained veterans and retired police officers that would love to have the job of protecting our children. 

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828
 Put three armed veterans in every school.

So, 'going postal' is a term that comes from the higher proportion of postal employees to bring a gun into work and start blasting away at colleagues. Why did they do that? Because a lot of vietnam vets with PTSD were given jobs at the post office in order to give them employment.

And seriously, arming teachers isn't bad enough; you want to militarise schools? You're throwing away both the ounce of prevention AND the pound of cure, and replacing it with a ton of what the fuck!?
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Male 21,778
just2talk who's gonna pay for that?
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Male 42,934
fancylad It's too much MONEY to protect the children? That's your reply? It costs too much to save lives?
It would be a tiny % of the current budget.
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Male 1,961
fancylad Mexico

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Male 13,445
marsii That actually made me chuckle. Flawless.
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Male 18,342
just2talk I hope your kids are never killed by a deranged person with an easily available firearm.

Because that would be ironic and I would feel bad for chuckling.
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Male 1,961
Draculya Be realistic. His kid would be the shooter.
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Male 13,445
just2talk 

"you asshats are blaming the tool" 

What a dumbfuck thing to say. OF COURSE it is his fault. However, since we can't outlaw crazy people, it would be nice if they didn't have access to a gun.

"Put three armed veterans in every school"

Are they volunteers? Because while the government cuts funding to schools and we can't afford to buy supplies or pay teachers I don't see how we're going to add 3 more employees to the pay roll.
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Male 7,525
This is the price of the second amendment.  We must accept mass slaughters so people can hunt ducks with military styled rifles.
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Male 10,234
daegog  so people can hunt ducks with military styled rifles. 

Sorry, false narrative. The Second Amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting.

Please try again. 
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Male 7,525
megrendel So why must we accept mass slaughter?
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Male 10,234
daegog So why must we accept mass slaughter?

You don't. But you have to find a way to deter it that:
  1. does not infringe on a constitutionally recognized right & 
  2. has some semblance of working.  (after all, we see how well outlawing drugs has worked, haven't we?)

There's nothing 'magical' about guns. They are a known, simple technology that are easy to manufacture. If you could wave your magic wand and make them all disappear today, by tomorrow there would be thousands manufactured in backyard workshops.

How about some things that may actually work? Like keeping a closer eye on known psycho's like this kids was known to be.  Like NOT making 'free-fire' zones (aka: gun free zones).

Most guys at my high-school had firearms in their cars/trucks during hunting season. We had a ROTC shooting range on school grounds where everyone was allowed to bring their rifles and site them in.  Strangely, nobody ever got shot. 
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Male 9,692
megrendel There is NO WAY the founding father's envisioned what weapons have morphed into.  Just like the Supreme court case where A guy who was funneling money for Casino's and laundering was caught by having his cell phone tracked.  How come the 4th Ammendment applied to him when it's not explicitly stated as protected?  THere's no mention of personal data, because it didn't exist.  The Constitution and times have changed, the 2nd Ammendment needs to be AMENDED!
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Male 10,234
normalfreak2  There is NO WAY the founding father's envisioned what weapons have morphed into. 

But, they were intelligent enough to know that invention presses on. That's why they specified 'Arms' rather than 'Mark I Musket'.

Likewise: There is NO WAY the founding fathers envisioned the computer with which you spew your ignorance.  The 'Press' mentioned in the 1st Amendment actually only meant manually operated Printing Presses.  Your puter is not covered. We'll send some goons right over to confiscate it. K?

normalfreak2  the 2nd Ammendment needs to be AMENDED!

Go for it, idiot.  The founding fathers even TOLD YOU HOW TO DO IT. Why, I even think it's called the AMENDMENT process. (Article V of the constitution, if you're so inclined to educate yourself....doubtful, you haven't demonstrated that ability so far.)

But, even if you are able to get the 2nd amended (which you will not be able to because there's not THAT many idiots in the US), it still will not solve the problem. 


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828
daegog Come on, man. Ducks and deer. As we know, those guys who pride themselves on their survivalism and huntmanship totally need a semi-auto in case they need to pump round after round into that deer.
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Male 9,692
Don't worry Our Congress and President will solve this problem with Thoughts and Prayers.
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Male 13,505
You can expect more.  That's what happens in a nation that replaces the love of God with the love for money.

It's like everyone sensible can see the symptoms of this disease, except for those living in it.

#NationInFreeFall.
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828
monkwarrior So why doesn't Monaco have these problems?
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Male 13,505
barry9a because it wasn't set up as a judge over all nations on earth.  big difference.
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Male 7,525
monkwarrior Who set the US as a judge over all nations of earth?  Did we the US ever get that memo?  Did they send it to the Vietnamese?
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Male 13,505
daegog God did, and they squandered it by rejecting Him for the love of money, and now you're seeing it fail, with crimes and sinfulness increasing, along with delusion and stupidity.
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Male 21,778
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Male 10,079
fancylad I didn't know Ted Cruz did dinner theater.
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Male 1,961
fancylad You ever going to actually do anything about the trolling?
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Male 21,778
marsii if you have any suggestions, i'm all ears. 
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Male 1,961
fancylad Block function. Mods. Time outs. Word filter. Etc.
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Male 13,445
marsii The troll might go away if people stopped responding to him.
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Male 1,961
holygod That has typically been my response but it really isn't working. Some of them have a  lot of free time.
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Male 13,505
marsii I noticed you have a lot of time to troll and delete posts.
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Male 13,505
holygod I'm all for teenage-tantrum throwing people like yourself not responding to me, or not trying to weasel their bitterness targeted at me into threads. That saves me time.  But ultimately im not a troll, and just happen to have a better wit and intellect than you.  You've admitted you hate me and don't like things i say, which is due to your continual crash and burns after being shot down from being unable to defend your fragile positions, and is now why you have to target me like a weasel.  I think it's a bit hilarious you're so desperate, but on the other hand it's a bit sad seeing a grown man acting such a way.

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Male 3,124
holygod 
Yeah, I've paid far too much attention to him.
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Male 1,961
jaysingrimm There's still time.
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Male 13,505
jaysingrimm Because you are a troll yourself, and i know how to take trolls like you down and you don't like it. So don't just talk about it, run along and do what desperate people tell you to do: don't respond (or even try to weasel your bitterness at me into threads like you've done below).  Keep hoping i might go away like some one who trolls and is ignored (as futile as that is, because unlike yourself, i don't).
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Male 21,778
holygod this.
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Male 5,892
fancylad ...in order to get into this boys hole...
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Male 13,505
fancylad Sorry, i've been watching your nation in great detail for a long, long, time (almost a decade longer than I-A-B has been around - bordering on a quarter of a century).  I understand the truth is hard to hear, and some don't want to hear it, but its my duty do tell it no matter how many people don't want to hear it.  And as you know i'm quite capable of standing my ground on it.

I encourage all people who cherish their nation, if they want to work at bringing about changes from these types of terrible acts of violence, to do their best to listen to the truth, and not stick their noses in the air, make prideful or mocking claims against the truth, and actually learn the lesson that could save their nation. The governance of your nation is your duty.

But at this late stage in the game, my analysis for recovery has fallen to nothing else but 4 simple words which will help roll the enactment for required change in governance.  I had hope for other things, but they have been squandered.
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Male 7,525
monkwarrior Hold on.. is Monk Canadian?
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Male 3,124
daegog
That's the location that was listed on (at least) the last couple profiles he's used.
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Male 1,961
daegog Noticing a pattern?
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Male 21,778
marsii 5cats?
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Male 42,934
fancylad Eh? Who is taking my name in vain?
Oh, that hate-troll...
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Male 1,961
fancylad No, just an asshole.
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Male 18,342
marsii yes
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Male 3,124
marsii 
We may have universal health care, but sadly, the mentally ill don't always get the help they need.

Although, a person that suffered brain damage and tries to address the challenges in their life, but are met with limited success due to the nature of their condition, deserves some respect.

A person that developed schizophrenia in their teens, allowed their education to suffer because they thought the teachers were filling their head with 'western media delusions' and 'scientism', and could only manage menial work, so they spin yarns about being a scientist warrior monk, all the while refusing to address their illness?

That person only deserves our pity.
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Male 13,505
jaysingrimm no doubt you could use some help in that department, thinking truth is fairy tales, and being unable to admit when you are wrong are serious problems you face.

You have my pity, i understand it's difficult for you, especially with the great dependence you have on fallacies to make your dishonesty and incorrect assumptions work.  I hope you can take your own advice, seek the help, and educate yourself so you can become more than just a bouncer, perhaps working in a field of science?  It would be tragic to throw your potential away for things you can easily resolve, and even have the knowledge of how to resolve.
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Male 1,961
jaysingrimm Fine, not all Canadians.
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Male 3,124
marsii 
Thanks :)
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Male 10,079
marsii LOL... Now, now. Punko is 100% awesome and he's Canadian. Two data points don't make a trend.
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Male 13,445
daegog please don't respond to him. He'll just take over the entire thread and fill it with stupid.
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Male 1,961
holygod He's not even good at trolling.
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Male 13,505
marsii But of course.  I'm quite serious about the sad state of that nation, after all, warning others of its predicament was designated as my primary role.
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Male 13,505
holygod sorry that's your job, like the equation you demanded was 9, when the answer was 1 and 9, and it was the equation that was wrong.  You just couldn't get over it, couldn't admit your error, and smashed into the ground in a blaze at what seemed like +500mph.

You might not care about the sad situation of your nation, but you can bet others do.

Oh, by the way, thanks again for proving me right, that you would respond to others posts to mock me like the weasel you are.  When you're man enough to face your problems, feel free to reply.
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Male 13,505
daegog i'm a citizen of Earth.
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Male 729
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Male 13,505
abetterworld try all you like, but He is the one who oversees my work.
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1,111
monkwarrior 4 simple words

1. You
2. Are
3. Seriously
4. Delusional
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Male 13,445
layla_wilson please don't respond to him. He'll just take over the entire thread and fill it with stupid.
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Male 13,505
holygod So i see you continue to be afraid to face what you fear, opting to be terrified of what you can't stand up to regarding the sad state of your nation.  It's really too bad a grown man like yourself has to resort to such desperate demands of others, but right on par for your course.
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Male 13,505
layla_wilson it's not like i'm a man who thinks i'm a woman.
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Male 13,445
BTW, this is the 18th school shooting so far this year. It's mid february.
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Male 42,934
holygod That is an absolute lie. You claim you want valid sources yet you BLINDLY BELIEVE such utter garbage?
Shaking my head in disappointment...
https://hotair.com/archives/2018/02/15/claim-18-school-shootings-year/
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Male 13,445
5cats School shooting as defined by a gun being discharged on school property. The phrase "school shooting" may lead people to think of what happened in Florida, but if you define it as a shooting on school property, there have been 18.
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Male 42,934
holygod It is dishonest to say the least... if you count one thing and people will think it's another.
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Male 13,445
5cats I will certainly give you that it is misleading. However, a gun just BEING on school property 18 times in a month and a half is disconcerting enough to me, let alone discharged.
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Male 2,570
holygod 18th school shooting or 18th mass shooting? I heard it was the 4th school shooting.
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Male 5,344
oobaka They count suicides, accidental discharge, shots fired near a school.
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Male 13,445
trimble No. Not near a school. On school property. SCHOOL + SHOOTING. Pretty easy definition. 
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Male 10,234
holygod  Pretty easy definition.  

As with most 'definitions' when someone is trying to cite statistics, this one is widely variable. 

Let's look at those 18 'school' shootings.
  • 2 were suicides, one in a parking lot one in a bathroom. Neither went to that school.
  • 4 were shots from non-school shooting but where bullets busted windows and/or holed walls of a nearby schools. NO ONE was hit.
  • 2 were students firing guns at school, where no one was hurt.
  • 1 was where a third-grader pulled the trigger of a cops gun...no one was hurt.
  • 1 shot fired in school, no one injured.
  • 4 were shootings where someone was actually injured. 
  • 3 were shootings where someone died. 
  • 1 was this one.


Some of these are like when a train slams into a Budweiser truck on the tracks and the media reports 'Alcohol involved accident'.
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Male 18,342
holygod do you think double digits are achievable?

Also, why have kids not figured out how to use IEDs?
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Male 13,445
Draculya You mean triple? Hell ya. This is America, we can achieve anything. Summer vacation kinda fucks us, but if we all pull together we can make it happen.
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Male 21,778
holygod 18? Damn, school shooting don't even make national news unless you kill in the double digits these days. America is officially numb to this sort of thing. I think at this point, the only way change will come is if a the child of a high-ranking gov't official or the kid of an NRA executive is slaughtered in one of these school shootings. 

Here's something to ponder... What if lil' Bannon Trump got a couple AR-15 rounds popped in his porcelain forehead?
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Male 326
fancylad Booooo! Check your crazy Fancy. 
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Male 946
fancylad Are you talking about Baron? I get the frustration, but that's kinda messed up, plus this gun thing is bigger than Trump. On a brighter note Remington is filing for bankruptcy, one down?
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Male 21,778
mischeif954 you're right, it's barron (i honestly have no opinion of the little creep other than he's firmly planted "on the spectrum"). but it's hard to feel sorry for the dead kids or their families, this has happened too many times, and frankly, i don't care anymore. there could be another mass shooting tomorrow and every day after that for the next month and i wouldn't care. I'd just post it on IAB, make another smart ass quip about it, and wait for the next school mass murder. American's are too fat, lazy, and satisfied with what little they have to make real waves and force the powers that be to reevaluate the current fast and loose gun laws. 

I have a facebook "friend" who also happens to be a teacher. tonight this teacher's answer is to today's school shooting was 1) "pray and send warm thoughts," even thought they're atheist 2) arm teachers -- lol, ok, and 3) put armed guards on campus. that's fucking retarded thinking.

inevitably, there's going to be another school shooting in a week or two, and we're sure to get another biggie with deaths in the double digits before summer vacation. this is the new normal, and the sooner we all get on board with that, the better off we'll all be. 

until then, get used to a lot of angry maga closet cases shooting up school kids. mentally ill fucktards with easy access to over-the-top assault weapons are here to stay.

but by all means, please pray for the children. 
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Male 13,445
No point in having this debate for the 30th time. People think their personal right to own any kind of gun they want is more important than these kids' lives. That isn't going to change.

Thoughts and prayers.
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Male 729
holygod Agreed.  See ya all on the next mass shooting post.
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Male 13,445
abetterworld You free next week?
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Male 21,778
An AR-15, eh? Good fucking job, America. You're doing great!


Nah, this totally isn't an assault rifle.

It gets better... He also posted photos of guns and knives on Instagram, calling his weapons an ‘arsenal’ and wore a Trump MAGA hat on in his profile picture. I love when people live up to their stereotypes.



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Male 42,934
fancylad No, it totally isn't unless if fires more than one round with one pull of the trigger. Facts matter.
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Male 4,069
fancylad 
Bang. Bang. Bang.
Not an assault rifle.
Ratatatatat. 
Assault rifle.
How hard is that?
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Male 42,934
captkangaroo Yup. Too hard for some folks it seems.
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Male 18,342
captkangaroo bump stock or skills makes a semiautomatic as efficient a child killer as a full auto.
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Male 42,934
Draculya Bump stock? only if you're shooting at the broad side of a barn... at close range... otherwise you're going to miss a whole lot.
Also "full auto" makes most of the shots miss too, it's terrible at hitting a selected target but effective for "area fire" like the need in the army.
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Male 13,445
5cats Broad side of a barn... Or a large crowd of people. Seemed to be awfully effective in Vegas.
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Male 42,934
holygod Maybe? There were long pauses in his firing you know. With or without the "bumpstocks" he could have rained down even more bullets if he wanted to. He had thousands of rounds left at the end.
We'll never know if he was more or less deadly because of the bumpstocks, he missed the target area a lot too, right? Even though it was literally barn-side sized.

Don't believe what Hollywood shows you: a spray of full-auto doesn't hit the target 20 times... it isn't a movie.
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Male 13,445
5cats I agree with you completely. I have shot many kinds of guns including full auto. Full auto is very effective in causing the most damage possible in a large group of people, but certainly not kills per shot.

The point is not really bump stocks. They are used infrequently in mass shootings. AR15 style guns are, however, used frequently. I see no reason why as a society we need to continue to allow a gun to be so easily obtained when it is clearly the choice of mass shooters.
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Male 42,934
holygod By "frequently" you mean almost never, right? Because the single most common type is a pistol. By a long ways. Unless you mean "semi-automatic rifles" in general...

The MSM 'talks up' the AR-15 as if it were some sort of Demon walking among us! But there's literally dozens of other rifles that have the exact same characteristics, they just don't "look scary" eh?
The Polytec shooting in Canada? The guy used a Ruger-223. Almost identical to the AR-15 in specs, except a couple of hundred dollars more expensive :p
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Male 13,445
5cats 

This asshole used an AR15 type gun
Stephen Paddock used an AR15 type gun
Adam Lanza used an AR15 type gun
Devin Patrick Kelley used an AR15 type gun
Omar Mateen used an AR15 type gun

If I was going to commit a mass shooting it is the gun I would use.

Say what you will about the media and "look scary" but even if the only difference is how it "looks" then clearly how it "looks" is attracting mass shooters. So let's stop manufacturing and selling guns that "look" like that. What's the problem? We have to have THAT gun or the 2nd amendment no longer works?

Stop bringing up black people, Chicago, handguns, mass shootings that are crime related. That is NOT what these conversations are about and I frankly couldn't care less if gang bangers are killing each other. We're talking about indiscriminate mass murder of innocents.
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Male 42,934
holygod Wait, I thought there were SO MANY mass killings... and you have only 5 examples? The FACT remains that he common PISTOL is the weapon of choice for mass-murderers.
The stats do not lie: murders of all sorts are FAR more likely to be done with pistols, including mass ones. And an "AR-15 TYPE" gun covers a lot of ground: one MSM report said a shotgun was an "AR-15 type" gun... I kid you not... it was black and had a "pistol grip"... close enough!!

Stop the look, then stop the rest: that is the gun-grabber plan. By-pass the US Constitution and impose a police state. Great idea! So you ban the "look" but let identical performance guns be available... what has that accomplished? Please be specific.

Knives are much more often used in murders than any sort of rifle. If you want to only focus on one TYPE of crime? Then you better have a specific solution: what law will prevent the NEXT mass killing?

So the deaths of innocents in Chicago don't matter to you? Duly noted...
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Male 4,069
Draculya 
Then you've never fired a fully automatic weapon - or at least you weren't any good at it.

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828
Draculya Letting the discussion revolve around the definition of an assault rifle... is a default win for the dickheads.

And frankly, whether it's auto or not makes zero difference for every shooting except the one in Vegas - these killers generally don't empty out magazines Rambo-style into huge crowds of people.

The whole bump stock thing was a wet dream for the NRA nuts, because they could pretend like they were helping to limit things when they know damn well it was a meaningless gesture.
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Male 4,069
barry9a 
Agree that bump stocks are idiotic.
As for clarifying whether one was using an automatic or semi-automatic, well, golly, let's not let pesky things like facts get in the way, right?
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Male 13,445
captkangaroo I don't understand why "assault rifle" is defined as "fully auto". To me assault rifle is any gun designed to assault people. Can we not have full auto assault weapons and semi auto assault weapons? 
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Male 4,069
holygod 
So, by your metric a colt .22 single shot derringer should be classified as an assault weapon.
I'm not seeing the logic.
It's like saying a mouse is a furry, 4 legged mammal no different than a bison - if it had to be one or the other, with which would you rather have infesting your home?
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Male 42,934
captkangaroo Bison, I do live in Manitoba after all...

;-)
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Male 4,069
5cats 
My comment was directed at holygod - but I likes that flag, man.
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Male 42,934
holygod Assault carrots... 

It is really a meaningless definition, but the MSM and gun-grabbers throw it around to frighten people.
Because full-auto weapons are already heavily restricted? And are almost never used in any crimes at all? They can't get enough 'traction' off demonizing those, so they make shit up and scare people with that instead.
That's why.
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