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Morality And The Christian God - Sam Harris

Hits: 4051 | Rating: (3.2) | Category: Community & Lifestyle | Added by: Mazztek
Page: 1 2 3 4 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Xprez
Male, 30-39, Western US
 676 Posts
Thursday, December 05, 2013 9:27:57 PM
I love the cliche attacks on Christians, all the while thinking that your attack on a supposed view of the world, is somehow morally justified and less reprehensible.
Maybe the overall message of the Bible is meant to be taken figuratively, not literally.
Of course this is the "gimme generation" therefore if it requires work, it is an "abomination".

Draculya
Male, 40-49, Asia
 12564 Posts
Wednesday, December 04, 2013 11:46:13 PM
@CrakrJak It's my statement of belief.

Draculya
Male, 40-49, Asia
 12564 Posts
Wednesday, December 04, 2013 11:44:33 PM
"How very "liberal" of you! Make them wear crosses on their sleeves? Put them into "re-education camps" next, yes? Very Liberal!"

I don't think I identify with a liberal tag. I just say what sounds right to me.

No crosses on sleeves; this is not a race thing. It's a religious thing.

Maybe we should classify religion under The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).

hamptoninn
Male, 30-39, Western US
 57 Posts
Wednesday, December 04, 2013 9:38:19 PM
No, SmagBoy1's post is not really a valid criticism. There is nothing about John 3:16 that makes Sam Harris's comments "irrefutable". I'm not exactly sure what SmagBoy1 thinks John 3:16 says, but John 3:16 does not say "God does not allow painful things to happen to people." Read it in context.

God loves the world; so he sent a savior for those who would believe in the Son (16). Jesus did not come to condemn us (17) because humans are already condemned (18). Most people prefer darkness to light (19-20), but those who want forgiveness are willing to come into the light (21).
The passage describes a contrast between believers and non-believers and their legal status before God. If you are frustrated with Christians who take Bible verses out of context, do not celebrate critics who take Bible verses out of context.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26191 Posts
Wednesday, December 04, 2013 10:35:18 AM
@SmagBoy1: See? That is a VALID argument and/or criticism! You do make them, I do acknowledge them! It is indeed frustrating when "religious types" are so selective in their literal interpretations.

Ugh, a day late: you'll probably never see this and continue to think ill of me... Alas!


SmagBoy1
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4243 Posts
Tuesday, December 03, 2013 2:17:49 PM
I love how willing xians are to ignore specific scriptures while clinging like barnacles to others. If you believe, as good xians do, in John 3:16, then the argument in this video is irrefutable. If, however, you want to selectively believe and follow the verses you want, like loving on Leviticus and other anti-gay verses while turning your back on John, that's fine. It's not surprising.

JadesDitoyr
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 541 Posts
Tuesday, December 03, 2013 1:22:52 PM
@CrackrJak
Yes, but I wasn't talking about a constitutional right - just the conceit made by participating in a venue such as this.

@Dragonace
I think that the most passionate outcries in this forum have been coming from the anti-Religion stance, and we cannot blame Religion for it.

Dragonace
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 298 Posts
Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:52:53 PM
True morality exists without the need for religion, to say that they are inseparable is just silly. Religion has little to no bearing on true human morality, if it did then the percentage of the current prison population that are god-fearing Christians would not be as high as it is (75%).

There is no need to bring religious dogma to a political forum. Period. I'm not saying religion should be ignored, I'm saying that when it comes to religious principals, people get very passionate and all it does it cause conflict and misery(this thread is a good example). Leave the religious dogma at home and use basic moral principals and logical thinking to solve problems and pass laws.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17293 Posts
Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:34:52 PM
JadesDitoyr: Expressing one's beliefs is one thing. Making hate filled vile commentary toward another's race, creed, religion, color or national origin is quite another and the SCOTUS has ruled that such "Hate Speech" is not protected under the 1st Amendment.

JadesDitoyr
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 541 Posts
Tuesday, December 03, 2013 10:51:41 AM
@Dragonace

I do not think it is at all possible to divorce legislature from religious beliefs/morals. Everything stems from our belief in right and wrong, regardless to if that comes from a Religious or Humanist view.

Speed limits come from our belief that the safety of others on the road are more important than our arrival at our destination in an early or on time manner.

Of course we should bring our faith and morals to the table when we discuss policy and law, but we should think about if these laws unfairly place a burden on those who do not share our beliefs.

The only way we can be a melting pot is if we accept all together, and not say "Your belief is not allowed here". If we segregate believers from non-believers, belief from non-belief, all we do is guarantee a "dinner salad" rather than a "melting pot".


Dragonace
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 298 Posts
Tuesday, December 03, 2013 10:06:06 AM
I think the consensus here is that no elected official, regardless of their faith, should use their religious beliefs when enacting laws for the general public, since America is a melting pot of religions and beliefs. What SHOULD be used is logic, critical thinking, and compassion.

While I DO think all world religions serve a purpose in the lives of those who believe in them, they should not be used as a tool or excuse to enforce personal views onto the public. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and should not have those beliefs encroached upon by unfair laws based on someone else's religious views.

LordJim
Male, 50-59, Europe
 4778 Posts
Tuesday, December 03, 2013 9:31:26 AM
Oy, Draculya,

What did you just call my granny?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26191 Posts
Tuesday, December 03, 2013 8:45:46 AM
We should neither hire one nor elect Christians, nor permit them positions of responsibility.


@Draculya: How very "liberal" of you! Make them wear crosses on their sleeves? Put them into "re-education camps" next, yes? Very Liberal!

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13519 Posts
Tuesday, December 03, 2013 5:36:39 AM
Christians ARE psychotic, psychopathic and ignorant if they are true believers. If they are fakers then they are habitual liars.

We should neither hire one nor elect Christians, nor permit them positions of responsibility



You don't sound any beter yourself there which is exactly what I was talking about.

Linkenberger
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1166 Posts
Tuesday, December 03, 2013 5:21:22 AM
My favorite parts of these posts is briefly looking at the ENGORGED comments section, before chuckling and saying "NOPE" before hitting the back button.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14758 Posts
Tuesday, December 03, 2013 12:04:47 AM
"Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child."
--Robert Heinlein

paperduck
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1707 Posts
Monday, December 02, 2013 10:45:20 PM
Cont... That's what life is. Imagine the dismay in whomever you can make that promise to finds out you would actually curse them and disown them when taken out of your element and current context. Take small steps. Think things through and the pieces come together. THINK for yourself.

paperduck
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1707 Posts
Monday, December 02, 2013 10:38:45 PM
Cont... a doctor and thinking God must think that too. Which is ridiculous. We give ourselves lots of labels and shells, but they'll all be pealed away and God will show us what we really are about. It will be evidenced in our lives we led.

So lets say a Christian priest who raped boys, a Muslim who blew himself up killing innocents, and a Hindu who burned his wife are told to scram by God. And there are 10 others from each who have done abundant good are brought before you and you're told they in fact that did what God had in mind. What will you say then? Don't presume about God. Don't presume the fate of others.

Why make a presumption about someone and the curse him? What if the person you know or loved asked if you'd fall in love all over again with them if you met them in a chaotically busy, foreign and confusing land, if you truly loved someone your answer would be yes (I hope). Then what if you actually got to try it out and see. That's what life

paperduck
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1707 Posts
Monday, December 02, 2013 10:16:35 PM
These are simple questions I had when I was 10. We don't know what God is thinking, Harris presumes it. Why do people suffer? We haven't seen the final chapter. It's like the sorrow for that moment of a guy who missed his flight, and all you think is "poor guy", but you haven't seen that later because of that he met the love of his life. Or you're ecstatic you got your boarding pass, but that plane his headed to crash. All we are seeing now is the sorrowful part in some lives, the joy in others... not the whole picture. The only question you should ask yourself is: Do you cause pain or suffering in others? Or a source of relief and joy?

We don't know who is going to heaven or hell, no one does. So all associated points are moot. Maybe more Hindus, Muslims and atheists go to heaven than Christians. Labels we give ourselves are meaningless. And all Harris is doing is presuming God uses these labels we've assigned ourselves. That's like me calling myself a

JadesDitoyr
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 541 Posts
Monday, December 02, 2013 9:36:31 PM
@CrackrJak
Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, and we cannot expect to be able to voice ours unless we allow others to express theirs.

JadesDitoyr
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 541 Posts
Monday, December 02, 2013 9:32:36 PM
@Gerry1of1
Well, the Blood of Christ washes away all Sin - so we are not all damned to hell. Just deserving of it.

While I believe this to be true, I do not think any less of you for not believing it.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17293 Posts
Monday, December 02, 2013 9:06:43 PM
Draculya: "Christians ARE psychotic, psychopathic and ignorant if they are true believers. If they are fakers then they are habitual liars."

That sentence is so vile and hate filled you should be banned from IAB.

hamptoninn
Male, 30-39, Western US
 57 Posts
Monday, December 02, 2013 8:42:28 PM
Sam Harris’s speech in this video is a (slightly edited) argument from a larger debate. You can watch the whole debate at the link below. The rebuttal to this point begins at 1:10:25. Spoiler: Harris’s emotionally poignant speech is mostly dismissed as a red herring.

I generally find that debates like this one generate more heat than light. Theists assert, "I believe in premise A, so I conclude B and C." Atheists assert, "I believe in premise ~A, so I conclude ~B and ~C." What I would really like to see is two debaters first agree on a set of premises, then build up from there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg7p1BjP2dA

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26191 Posts
Monday, December 02, 2013 8:34:29 PM
Listening to Atheists blather on about "what God thinks" is like listening to a "channeller" (psychic) talk about what "Aliens From Jupiter" think...

Neither has a clue...

Become a Deist! Like me! I don't know OR CARE what God thinks! If I meet Him after I'm dead? He's going to have a LOT of explaining to do!!

All this speculation on God's methods, motivations OR 'morality' is utterly pointless...

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33911 Posts
Monday, December 02, 2013 8:09:50 PM

Okay, so God knows everything that has and everything that will happen.
God created us knowing the vast majority would fail.
So God created us for the sole purpose of damning us to hell.

And this all makes sense to people? Go figure.

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