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Elections Have Consequences--Indeed, They Do

Hits: 3013 | Rating: (2.5) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: Squrlz4Sale
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26294 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 7:37:27 PM
@Musuko42: I generally "respond in kind" but not always, of course.

It was a small mistake, but still a mistake nonetheless. No hurt from admitting it!

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 1:25:22 AM
@5Cats

Good man for admitting your mistake!

You connected the dots, using a machine (your mind) that you know to be faulty. I hope you'll try to remember that for next time, and think that perhaps you're reaching conclusions that aren't justified by the actual words being typed by the person you're talking to.

Take a few extra moments for internal consideration and editing when responding to "liberals" and the like. Think: am I responding to what they're actually saying, or am I responding to conclusions I've drawn using my faulty mind?

You might step on fewer toes, and might make better progress in convincing other people to your way of thinking.

I know you're capable of it, because I've caught you at the right time or on the right topic and found you to be pleasant to debate with, as you are now.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26294 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 1:41:58 PM
O_o Oh sorry man! To me that sounds just like symptoms! Since the general discussion (partly at least) was about mental health? I connected the dots.

That's how!

Honestly? It's an excellent description of a "typical schizoid delusion" eh? A little short perhaps, they do tend to babble on about things...

Anyhow: My mistake!

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 9:39:40 AM
@5Cats

I didn't describe any symptoms. What are you talking about?

This?

"Erm, no. Your position could be that grapes are made out of tentacles from the moon and are sent here to infiltrate our leaders and implant false memories of the Chicken Song being written in 1698 and you would be able to find someone, somewhere who agreed with you."

Surely it's clear that I was saying that you could find someone to agree with any position you held, regardless of how rational the position is.

Meaning, having someone agree with your position is not a good proof of your position being rational.

How on EARTH did you jump to the conclusion that I was even remotely talking about schizophrenia?

I think you made a mistake, and are now trying to backtrack with a shaky excuse, rather than just own up to the mistake.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26294 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 9:27:30 AM
@Musuko42: Those symptoms you described were "classic schizophrenia" you don't need to use the name.

For example:
You say: There's blood pouring out of my proboscis!
I say: Oh? you have a nosebleed?
You say: I NEVER said I had a nosebleed!!!

See?

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 1:14:54 AM
@5Cats

"@Musuko42: That's 'schizophrenia' eh? I don't have that! I do have a BA in Psychology though Just enough knowledge to get into trouble... "

I never said schizophrenia. I haven't mentioned the word once. Someone else did. I said "mental issues".

You're doing it again, getting people mixed up. You're talking to many different people here, not one multi-headed whole.

PLEASE realise that you need to look internally. The above is exactly the sort of thing we're talking about. You're getting people confused and lashing out at the wrong person. That's not a good thing at all.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14811 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 11:11:20 PM
@kangoala "Quit using The Constitution as a backdrop to your shallow political rhetoric. Anyone can read it, might I suggest trying to understand it?"

Sounds great. Let me know if you ever do.

@Musuko42 "The Republicans don't get a pass for doing wrong just because the Democrats are doing wrong too."

...except that the Republicans WEREN'T doing wrong. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Republicans have engaged in voter suppression. It's just Democrat lies and slander to cover up their crimes.

@HG "That it is unconstitutional for the government to do ANYTHING not specifically mentioned on that list? Because that is a metric f.uck ton of things, not just healthcare reform."

I think you're finally starting to get it. The government is doing, as you said, "a metric f.uck ton of things" that aren't authorized by the constitution, and as a consequence, we're going straight into the $#!++er.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26294 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 4:16:11 PM
grapes are made out of tentacles from the moon


@Musuko42: That's 'schizophrenia' eh? I don't have that! I do have a BA in Psychology though Just enough knowledge to get into trouble...

@bliznik: I'm not even REMOTELY saying that! I've never even wondered why ObamaCare is being "rolled out" in the middle of a shutdown! It's a 'moot point'!

I AM SAYING that the Congress has the POWER to fund or de-fund! And that ObamaCare IS INDEED within their ability to de-fund.

Ok?

House: De-funds, sends Bill to Senate
Senate: Re-instates funding, sends it back to the House.
House: Re-De-Funds, sends Bill BACK to Senate...

And 'round and round it goes'!

Eventually: It gets to Obama's Desk: he Vetos it.

NOW it takes 2/3 majority to pass it OVER the veto.

I do know a little bit (but am not an expert) on how the US System works!

bliznik
Male, 30-39, Western US
 504 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 12:53:18 PM
"If ObamaCare is "self-funded" WHY does it need hundreds of billions in... funding!
The House couldn't "de-fund" it if this were the case, yes?"

@5Cats, Oh gosh, I just realized you don't actually understand what the government shutdown impacts. OK, there are programs that are "self-funded," meaning that the law specifically states "we raise taxes here, and pay for those things there", and programs that are not "self-funded," meaning that the law states that we need to pay for those things, but doesn't state where we get that $$$ from.

That's the part of the government that is shut down.

Since Obamacare specifically states, "we will use the $$$ raised here to pay for that there," it is still in effect, even with the government shutdown. This is why the www.healthcare.gov website is still working but the www.nps.gov website is not working.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 11:31:06 AM
@5Cats

"Actually, I DO worry about that! And occasionally have a "brain cramp" where a dumb idea gets stuck in my head, it's true!
Trust me: I 'self-edit' a LOT!"

That's good to hear that you show some self-awareness.

Why do these certain debates get you so riled?

"But since others completely agree with my positions? I think I've got them right"

Erm, no. Your position could be that grapes are made out of tentacles from the moon and are sent here to infiltrate our leaders and implant false memories of the Chicken Song being written in 1698 and you would be able to find someone, somewhere who agreed with you.

Is the logic of your position internally sound? Are you certain of being able to evaluate its logic when your instrument of evaluation (your own mind) is, by your own admission, inherently impaired by your mental issues?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5097 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 11:30:50 AM
5Cats

"For the politicians? They already have full coverage, so it won't apply to them anyhow."

Isn't that how it works for most americans? I don't understand what you guys are complaining about.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26294 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 11:24:50 AM
@bliznik: If ObamaCare is "self-funded" WHY does it need hundreds of billions in... funding!
The House couldn't "de-fund" it if this were the case, yes?

The police will ALWAYS "talk to" hostage takers and terrorists, but rarely give them anything.
In this case? Obama wants ALL the things his way or NOTHING. He vowed to VETO any bill which threatens ObamaCare's funding, period. So, who's the "hostage taker" here?

@HolyGod: Of course they have to "enrol in the system" but they don't have to USE ObamaCare! For the politicians? They already have full coverage, so it won't apply to them anyhow.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26294 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 11:17:25 AM
Can you not accept the possibility that those mental issues are affecting your ability to be rational about these topics that are clearly important to you?


@Musuko42 & @normalfreak2: Actually, I DO worry about that! And occasionally have a "brain cramp" where a dumb idea gets stuck in my head, it's true!
Trust me: I 'self-edit' a LOT!

But since others completely agree with my positions? I think I've got them right

@Squrlz4 & @HolyGod: it's the JOB of the HOUSE to FUND the USA! Ok? If they want to CUT FUNDING they pass a bill, which is exactly what they're TRYING to do!
It's how the system is SUPPOSED to work!

The PotUS is NOT SUPPOSED to alter Bills after they are passed UNLESS the House votes on those changes. He has altered it, did not get the Congressional approval REQUIRED by law...

Gypsybard
Male, 40-49, Western US
 97 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 10:57:14 AM
HG:

This was my first post on this issue. No need to get so "JMFC" upset. Additionally, I am not in a debate, nor am I grossly misinformed.
The "exemption" for Congress, Staffers and (to use a simplified description), "Big Business" interests has been extended until Jan. 1, 2015, (according to my latest research. If incorrect, better information is certainly welcomed!).
It was bad enough when they were given a padding until 1/1/2014 when the rest of us had to toe the scratch immediately.
Additionally, the greatest problem with this is that these "extensions," along with other modifications to the "law of the land" were made by the pen of the President...a power that he most certainly does not wield.
Very simply, if this law is good enough for one American, it is good enough for all...at the same time. Also, the President must exercise his power and his restraint as has been outlined in our Constitution, and s

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5097 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 10:55:00 AM
Crakr

"It is a fact that congress and it's staff are getting a 75% subsidy so that they DO NOT have to use the exchanges."

NO. NO. NO. Can we even read and agree what words say? Read your own link.

"Under the OLD SYSTEM, the federal government contributed to about 75 percent of premiums"

"House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, California Democrat, said Friday that members of Congress and their staffs must enroll in the exchanges, as required by the law."

What the f.uck are you talking about? Aside from the title WHERE does that article say they are exempt?



CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17299 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 10:46:48 AM
HG: It is a fact that congress and it's staff are getting a 75% subsidy so that they DO NOT have to use the exchanges.

Washington Times

bliznik
Male, 30-39, Western US
 504 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 10:15:59 AM
"EXACTLY! And WHO says NO NEGOTIATIONS???"

@5Cats, every police force refuses to negotiate with terrorists and hostage takers if it appears as though no lives will be taken if no negotiations occur. (i.e. if hostages are taken, but the terrorists/hostage takers have no lethal weapons) Here, there are two "lives" at risk, (1) Obamacare, (2) all of the non-self-funded federal programs. (only 17% of government is shut down)

Interestingly enough, all of the Obamacare provisions are "self-funded" and so they're still up and running.

So, Republicans have one "life" that they're threatening, and they want Dems to exchange one life with another life. (I will spare all of the non self-funded government programs so long as you give me Obamacare to kill...or let me maim it so severely that it dies on its own)

But, it appears as though if the Dems do nothing, both lives will be saved.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5097 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 9:52:31 AM
gypsybard

"Also, part of the negotiations were that Congress, the Senate and the White House staff would have to also enroll in ObamaCare. They are citizens just like us. "Of the people, by the people, for the people," you know what I mean? The President refused to negotiate unless that was taken off the table. Congress has a "Gold Plan" health insurance system that costs them, out of pocket, a total of $670 a year. The average American's deductible is higher than that."

Jesus Mother F.ucking Christ

This is why we can't even debate. You guys are so misinformed you don't know what we are debating.

THERE IS NO EXEMPTION FOR CONGRESS FROM OBAMACARE.

normalfreak2
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1967 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 7:13:15 AM
@5cats I appreciate the honesty. I don't want to belittle your situation or you, but Musuko42 brings up a valid probing. Could those be issues that interferes with your rationality?

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 4:57:56 AM
@5Cats

You freely admit to having a raft of mental issues, and I respect you for being open about them, and you have my sympathy for having to deal with them.

Can you not accept the possibility that those mental issues are affecting your ability to be rational about these topics that are clearly important to you?

Can you not at least try to be introspective for a while and explore the possibility that your own judgement is impaired?

Please?

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 4:53:31 AM
@5Cats

If the Democrats were using this tactic to derail something the Republicans were putting into law, something that you personally support, would you be defending the tactic?

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 4:52:10 AM
@5Cats

"So @Squrlz4? The previous 17 times? SEVENTEEN TIMES? Which the PotUS negotiated were... stupid?"

Yes.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 4:49:16 AM
@OldOllie

"When they were all whining about "voter suppression," they were the ones who really doing it -- BIG TIME"

Two wrongs don't make a right, now do they?

The Republicans don't get a pass for doing wrong just because the Democrats are doing wrong too.

And sure, the Democrats are unlikely to mention their own wrongdoing when telling off the Republicans, and vice-versa.

But they're still right when they point out the wrongdoing. And the Republicans are right to point out *their* wrongdoing.

kangoala
Male, 18-29, Australia
 702 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 1:50:05 AM
@OldOllie
Quit using The Constitution as a backdrop to your shallow political rhetoric. Anyone can read it, might I suggest trying to understand it?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26294 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 1:45:56 AM
ABSOLUTELY NO NEGOTIATIONS

So @Squrlz4? The previous 17 times? SEVENTEEN TIMES? Which the PotUS negotiated were... stupid?
And Obama's refusal to BUDGE ONE INCH is... NOBEL PRIZE WINNING!
ic...

@HolyGod: You've utterly IGNORED all the modifications Obama has imposed... and DEFEND his refusal for ANY further changes?

Wait... what?

It's almost as if... you were LIBERAL or something...

Welcome to IAB @Gypsybard! Just ignore the lefty-trolls, they bark but have NO BITE at all!

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