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Thorium Reactors Explained In 5 minutes

Hits: 7298 | Rating: (3.4) | Category: Science | Added by: CrakrJak
Page: 1 2 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12078 Posts
Thursday, January 24, 2013 11:18:48 PM
Angilion, save your breath when it comes to arguing with Crakrjak. This is the bit where he ceases to comment further, because he's already been rightfully placed into a corner as a scientifically illiterate dickhead.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11508 Posts
Wednesday, January 23, 2013 1:30:22 AM
Thallium-208 is one of the arguments in favour of using thorium for fission because it reduces the chance of nuclear terrorism. You can't do it on a small scale, as a terrorist group would have to, because it decays into such a powerful gamma emitter. Even if you have suicide workers who are willing to die from the radiation exposure in order to build a bomb, your facility will be easily detected. Moving the material would also be much harder for the same reason.

I think your thorium fission power station small enough to go on a tractor trailer is impossible as a result. I think you just couldn't shield it well enough in that size. Gamma radiation in the MeV range takes a lot of stopping.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11508 Posts
Tuesday, January 22, 2013 4:16:18 PM
Angillion: Thallium-208 is way way down the decay scale. In fact it hit stable lead before it turns into Thalium for a couple of minutes.


You have misunderstood the thorium decay chain, and also misunderstood radioactive decay in general.

When a material reaches a stable isotope, it stops undergoing radioactive decay. That's what "stable" means in this context - an isotope that does not undergo radioactive decay.

The Thorium decay chain reaches thallium-208 *before* Lead-208. Thallium-208 is radioactive and decays into lead-208, which is a stable isotope of lead and therefore the end of the decay chain.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17160 Posts
Tuesday, January 22, 2013 4:15:14 AM
Angillion: Thallium-208 is way way down the decay scale. In fact it hit stable lead before it turns into Thalium for a couple of minutes. Since lead is in and of itself a radiation shielding material, I don't see a problem there.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11508 Posts
Monday, January 21, 2013 12:05:01 PM
Oh, and about Washington state...

They're generating a smallish minority of their electricity from wind power.

It isn't free - it's very expensive.

It isn't their sole means of generation, or even a large part of it.

It is never planned to be, because they employ people who understand power generation.

What I said about CSP applies to other renewables too, in different areas. CSP in hot uninhabited areas, wind in windy uninhabited areas.

CSP is appropriate in some areas, if you back it with a cutting edge HVDC grid (which is very far indeed from free) and you retain a large *controllable* generating capacity to maintain constant matching of supply to demand.

Unless someone comes up with an efficient way to store GWhs of electricity, renewables can't be the main generating method, let alone the only one, even if we're willing to eat the cost and environmental impact.


Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11508 Posts
Monday, January 21, 2013 12:00:29 PM
Incidentally, what I explicitly described as "unfeasible" was the following two things:

Free energy.

A worldwide very sophisticated HVDC grid and a worldwide agreement to share the power generated, and having those things soon.

If you think either is feasible, feel free to explain why. And I won't accept your perpetual motion magic machines as an answer.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11508 Posts
Monday, January 21, 2013 11:43:28 AM
Saying "That's not feasible," is as stupid as saying science isn't real. Pull your head out of your ass and have a little respect for people.


I have a little respect for deliberately ignorant people who are spreading disinformation.

But only a little.

You're pushing perpetual motion machines. No, it's worse than that. You're pushing power generation from perpetual motion machines, so you're talking about magic power generation on top of perpetual motion. Why on earth should anyone think you know anything about power generation? You have not and can not address any of the things I have said are unfeasible (and said why they are unfeasible).

A quick perusal of selected Google results is no substitute for knowledge.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11508 Posts
Monday, January 21, 2013 11:38:03 AM
I wont say I know much about the actual chemical science behind solar panels, but a quick google search tells me I can home make all three of these systems to put in my yard and power my home.


Then try it and tell me the results.

Or actually learn about the subject rather than doing a quick google search. I can do a quick google search and be told that I can power a car from water and that aliens rule the world in secret through the Illuminati. That doesn't mean that it's true.

There are some solar power devices you could build at home (but not a useful panel), but you can't power your home from them. Even if you live in a desert, how would you constantly match supply to demand?

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13447 Posts
Monday, January 21, 2013 10:38:16 AM


MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4639 Posts
Monday, January 21, 2013 8:23:50 AM
Gauddith-"What happens when you put a few magnets on a spinning platform and place it next to a slightly bigger magnet designed to push and pull them?"

Theoretically the platform spins...right up until the point you put ANY load on it. So friction and/or any attempt to generate electricity from it will cause it to stop.


Gauddith-"I wont say I know much about the actual chemical science behind solar panels"

We won't say that either.

Both sun and wind are unreliable. The sun doesn't always shine around here, nor does the wind always blow. And sometimes, when it DOES blow, it's hurricane force. So both would need to survive that.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5718 Posts
Monday, January 21, 2013 6:12:18 AM
If so Th-228 is an Alpha emitter, not a Gamma emitter, Alpha radiation can be stopped by a sheet of paper, no worries there.

...Unless it's in gaseous form. I definitely support thorium but there is definitely an issue with safety regarding gas mantles. Doesn't seem like it's that big of a problem to fix though.

New_Guy
Male, 30-39, Europe
 401 Posts
Monday, January 21, 2013 3:27:24 AM
I have to agree whit crakrjak on this one... this should be the power source of the future but i think the hippie hipsters and the media are going to make it a long wait with there stupid opinions.

Gauddith
Female, 18-29, Western US
 226 Posts
Monday, January 21, 2013 12:07:02 AM
@Angilion, I wont say I know much about the actual chemical science behind solar panels, but a quick google search tells me I can home make all three of these systems to put in my yard and power my home.

And I know that much is true for both solar and wind because people who live in rural areas do it all the time. The fact that it's so unfeasible that someone might aspire for each home to power itself shouldn't sound so impossible to a CLEARLY power savvy person such as yourself.

I'm sure you also knew that in 2011 Washington state produced over 6000GWh of power and they are planning on larger numbers for 2012. Saying "That's not feasible," is as stupid as saying science isn't real. Pull your head out of your ass and have a little respect for people.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11508 Posts
Sunday, January 20, 2013 8:10:01 PM
Angilion: Thorium 208? Do you mean Thorium 228?


I wrote Thallium 208 and I mean Thallium 208.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17160 Posts
Sunday, January 20, 2013 6:53:52 PM
Angilion: Thorium 208? Do you mean Thorium 228?

If so Th-228 is an Alpha emitter, not a Gamma emitter, Alpha radiation can be stopped by a sheet of paper, no worries there.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11508 Posts
Sunday, January 20, 2013 6:00:27 PM
CrakrJak:

With the thorium fission nuclear power station on a trailer truck that you refer to, how would you deal with the monumentally radioactive Thallium-208 decay product? That takes one hell of a lot of shielding. Sure, its half-life is a few minutes but when you're talking about gamma rays in the MeV range you can't take any chances.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11508 Posts
Sunday, January 20, 2013 5:49:29 PM
If this works, there will be a country that strats this on its own, and that will get the ball rolling.. i hope to see the ball rolling


China is building thorium fission power stations now. A basic version is almost identical to a uranium fission power station, so it's not a difficult step.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11508 Posts
Sunday, January 20, 2013 5:32:31 PM
Angilion: What is very good about Thorium power is that the reactors can be made small, Small enough to fit on a tractor trailer. This would make it so that even small communities could buy their own power station and be independent of the grid. They could even sell the excess, thus lowering their citizens power bills.


Sell it to where? If they're independent of the grid, they have no way of exporting electricity. If the grid was still there and they were still on it, then they could sell the excess...to who? If it was so simple to have one, every community would have one.

But it's impossible anyway because supply must be constantly matched to demand. You can't do that on a small scale with one nuclear power station. Not unless you can efficiently store many GWh of electricity, which we can't.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11508 Posts
Sunday, January 20, 2013 5:21:25 PM
What happens when you put a few magnets on a spinning platform and place it next to a slightly bigger magnet designed to push and pull them? Right, I know you got this.

Aslo, I know that with proper investing we can find far more cost effective ways to harnas power from both solar and wind. One of the biggest problems with these power sources is the difficulty to market them. Seriously, there have been some pretty astounding innovations by people in those areas.



OK, that nails that down.

You have no idea what you're talking about, so your opinion has no weight. You're proposing generating power with perpetual motion machines and you don't even know enough to know that you're doing that.

Of course, that massively undermines your confident claim to be able to predict the future regarding wind and solar power (which I'm sure you don't understand either).

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17160 Posts
Sunday, January 20, 2013 4:02:37 PM
jops360: Energy will never be quite that 'Free'. Also, not every town would need their own reactor. Eventually there would be enough supply to find a decent equilibrium.

jops360
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 580 Posts
Sunday, January 20, 2013 8:13:51 AM
crackerjack - who would they sell the excess to if every town had one? i like where you are going with this but i see a future with near FREE energy. besides the startup cost of making the plant and getting the material, this type of system would be mostly self sustaining. even if they were to charge $1 a year they would make a good profit.

Modwain
Male, 30-39, Europe
 303 Posts
Sunday, January 20, 2013 8:07:41 AM
actually, and this is true with a lot of systems, corporations want money, so they might not like this.. but governments arent companies. If this works, there will be a country that strats this on its own, and that will get the ball rolling.. i hope to see the ball rolling

CreamK
Male, 40-49, Europe
 1144 Posts
Sunday, January 20, 2013 6:29:01 AM
So basically Thorium is too common to mine, you can't get the same money than what you get from Uranium so no one is interested. Money + countless lobbyists = no cleaner energy.

banur
Male, 18-29, Europe
 250 Posts
Sunday, January 20, 2013 6:01:10 AM
What happens when you put a few magnets on a spinning platform and place it next to a slightly bigger magnet designed to push and pull them?

Ehhh, face-palming Insane Clown Posse?

Gauddith
Female, 18-29, Western US
 226 Posts
Sunday, January 20, 2013 2:12:01 AM
@Angilion

What happens when you put a few magnets on a spinning platform and place it next to a slightly bigger magnet designed to push and pull them? Right, I know you got this.

Aslo, I know that with proper investing we can find far more cost effective ways to harnas power from both solar and wind. One of the biggest problems with these power sources is the difficulty to market them. Seriously, there have been some pretty astounding innovations by people in those areas.

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