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 markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3783 Posts
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Saturday, January 05, 2013 7:21:02 AM
"So, if a liberal quotes from a liberal source, it's called referencing, but if a conservative quotes from a conservative source, it's called parroting, right?"
No, I am not being a typical liberal hypocrite. I don't go to sites like this. If a Liberal is into opinion media and quotes from a dishonest partisan liberal equivalent of breitbart.com they are being just as retarded. |
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 OldOllie
Male, 50-59, Midwest US
8947 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 9:48:17 PM
Love the people parroting the breitbart article. Tards.
So, if a liberal quotes from a liberal source, it's called referencing, but if a conservative quotes from a conservative source, it's called parroting, right?
markust, you're nothing but a typical liberal hypocrite. |
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 USAF27
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
97 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 3:45:26 PM
The reason we have the 2nd Amendment is because of a European country. The Bill of Rights was written in response to British rule and ratified to clarify the intent of the 10 amendments. The USA was born by ridding our prior government of oppressors...the British. The Brits trampled our rights as a free people. Our founding fathers that experienced this put in place peaceful and also non-peaceful means of ridding ourselves of a possible future oppressive government. They wanted the people armed.
The Bill of Rights and amendments was/is for the common people, not the National Guard. A militia is by classic definition is "unpaid citizen soldiers". The 1775 Articles of War prior to the UCMJ governed the paid professional military rights/responsibilities.
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 5Cats
Male, 40-49, Canada
17458 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 2:03:10 PM
Single payer government healthcare so that every American can get teh physical and mental health attention they need?
@HG: Just like Canada , right?
Only ObamaCare is nothing like that, it's just a law forcing people to buy insurance, against their will.
And Canada's healthcare is fine! IF you have insurance (just like the USA!) or IF you have lots of money (and can GO to the USA).
I've waited 9 months for therapy, it starts next week. About average, actually.
I do admit: If you have a life-threatening crisis in Canada you get great care, instantly, and it doesn't bankrupt you. Other than that, however, it sux. |
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 diylobotomy
Male, 18-29, Western US
1621 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 12:55:30 PM
Useful does not equal necessary. |
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 HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
3058 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 12:24:48 PM
CrakrJak
"So let's focus on identifying and getting help for those that are mentally ill now."
Single payer government healthcare so that every American can get teh physical and mental health attention they need?
Mandatory mental health screenings at 18?
How? I'm listening.
Some people think making access to guns more difficult is the answer and they have plans on how to do it. If you think those things aren't the issue and we need to focus on helping those with mental health issues put forth some solutions. I haven't heard any. |
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markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 11:56:59 AM
"So let's focus on identifying and getting help for those that are mentally ill."
See Crakrjak, you and I can agree on some things. |
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 HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
1211 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 11:36:50 AM
@MacGuffin
I'm sorry, but you appear to have mistaken my having corrected your misconception for my giving a shyt what you think about gun control.
Of course, this statement assumes that I've misconceived something. In fact, I would argue that you have misconceived the data in order to comply with your ideology.
possess tools intended to make it easier for them to kill one another
I can provide you with a very simple logical proof showing that this statement is completely incorrect. Would you like me to do that for you? I'm here to help.
Go right ahead: it makes no difference to me whatsoever.
Apparently, it does make a difference to you; afterall, you are here arguing about it, aren't you? |
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 MacGuffin
Female, 30-39, Europe
2597 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 11:33:36 AM
In the context of the recent gun debates in America, he is losing.
I'm sorry, but you appear to have mistaken my having corrected your misconception for my giving a shyt what you think about gun control. I've long ago given up caring about the way a significant number of Americans continually rationalise their belief in the apparent right to possess tools intended to make it easier for them to kill one another. Go right ahead: it makes no difference to me whatsoever. |
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 CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14459 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 11:23:49 AM
HG: There are many knives and clubs (blunt objects) made 'specifically to kill'. The lethal common denominator here is NOT the rifle, it's the lunatic.
No rifle, club or knife can kill on it's own. No one said we should ban jet airplanes after 9/11, and although banned from airports, no one has talked of banning box cutters either.
We focused on finding and arresting the terrorists then. So let's focus on identifying and getting help for those that are mentally ill now. |
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HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
3058 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 10:59:47 AM
CrakrJak
"Clearly, banning rifles is more idiotic than trying to ban knives, hammers and bare hands."
My response will be the exact same as it has been, and here lies the impasse where it boils down to a difference of opinion.
1. Knives, hammers, and bare hands serve non-lethal purposes. They aren't designed and manufactured specifically to kill.
2. Knives, hammers, and bare hands are not used in indiscriminate mass murders, which are the only kinds of murder that pose a threat to me and my family. They are used when one person seeks out and specifically kills another person. Whether they use a knife or a gun, a person will always be able to kill another person. We aren't engaging in this debate because a guy killed his wife with a baseball bat or someone stabbed their business partner. We are having this discussion because crazy people are walking into malls, theaters, and schools with rifles and killing random people en mass.
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markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 9:07:17 AM
"Well, let's look at embellishment, shall we? Everyone else is comparing blunt items with rifles, you drag in total firearms...little outside the realm of the argument there."
Way to double down on the lie. I was showing that the article was manipulating its followers into thinking just clubs and hammers cause more deaths than riffles. When in reality it is all blunt objects. Crakrjak's comment does not say blunt objects he says hammers and clubs. Mission accomplished. AutieDaddy took the bait even further and says just hammers. What I was pointing out is Breitbarts manipulation of the category of blunt objects. The way they are manipulating it is only fair to use all firearms in comparison. But what I was really doing is pointing out that it is a fool who believes anything that site says. And a bigger fool who repeats the spin. |
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 McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
10540 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 7:37:52 AM
@Magickrat
Who said it was soley for hunting? |
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 Magickrat
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
335 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 7:35:11 AM
Seriously? If you need a gun that holds 30 rounds per clip & can fire more rounds per minute than it holds to go hunting, you're obviously doing it wrong. Keep in mind, the deer aren't armed... |
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HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
1211 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 7:23:04 AM
@MacGuffin
I don't think markust is losing any argument.
In the context of the recent gun debates in America, he is losing. I have not seen any proposed bans on all firearms. Instead, suggested bans are on a specific subset of rifles. By looking at statistics pertinent to rifles only, we see that they are not a major contributor. Thus, the bans presented are nonsensical.
I'll never to my dying day understand the unhealthy addiction that some Americans have to guns.
Because you are biased, as is evidenced by the phrase "unhealthy addiction." These words have a negative connotation and assume that the current relationship between Americans and firearms is unhealthy and addictive. Your mind is the limiting agent in this case. |
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MacGuffin
Female, 30-39, Europe
2597 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 7:09:53 AM
I don't think markust is losing any argument. I think he managed very well to cut through the fuzzy maths that some were using to try and demonstrate a falsehood that blunt objects are a bigger threat than firearms.
People who want to carry guns will always find a reason to do it. People who want to smoke, drink, do drugs or get fat find a way to convince themselves those behaviours are OK too. It's called rationalising.
I'll never to my dying day understand the unhealthy addiction that some Americans have to guns. But, it's your country, and if you want to have a society where everyone can legally carry objects that are designed to kill your fellow citizens (and tolerate the knowledge that each of those fellow citizens may do the same, and could be better/faster/stronger than you if push comes to shove), then so be it. |
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 chance13
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
220 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 4:46:44 AM
Well, let's look at embellishment, shall we? Everyone else is comparing blunt items with rifles, you drag in total firearms...little outside the realm of the argument there.
I love it when someone is obviously losing the argument so they change the scope to fit their argument. |
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markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 1:14:03 AM
"According to the FBI more murders are committed each year with hammers than rifles so let's ban construction tools too!!!"
Love how you embellished on the already embellished lie and dropped clubs and just stuck with hammers. You are a good little sheep. Now go fourth onto Facebook and spread the lie further. |
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markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 1:05:37 AM
"Unless you wish to dispute the numbers your retort amounts to nothing more than ad hominem."
A grade school student could dispute the numbers. Take 2011 for instance. There were 496 people killed by Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.). Yes that is etc as in all blunt objects combined not just hammers and clubs like the article misleads people into believing. Yet they only cherry picks riffles? What about the total 8,583 deaths by firearms? Apparently the lies did not die with Breitbart nor did the gullibility of his fans.
Link |
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 ferdyfred
Male, 40-49, Europe
5933 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 12:47:43 AM
I dont need guns for home defence, I just have 2 signs on my porch door, 'beware of the spiders'
and 'beware of the cobra's'
No fecker knocks my door - ever!!! |
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 Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9511 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 12:43:58 AM
Love the people parroting the breitbart article
Unless you wish to dispute the numbers your retort amounts to nothing more than ad hominem. |
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ferdyfred
Male, 40-49, Europe
5933 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 12:36:19 AM
If its good for hunting, and home defence, its pretty likely to be good for mass murder and anything else the user wants it for? |
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markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Friday, January 04, 2013 12:26:20 AM
Love the people parroting the breitbart article. Tards. |
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OldOllie
Male, 50-59, Midwest US
8947 Posts
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Thursday, January 03, 2013 11:30:15 PM
The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is not to guarantee our right to keep and bear sporting goods. |
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 Neyro
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
148 Posts
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Thursday, January 03, 2013 10:49:33 PM
I'm sorry, but anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of firearms and terminal ballistics would agree that an AR-15 trumps even the venerable shotgun every time in home defense scenarios.
Less risk of over-penetration (00 buck will tear clean through drywall and keep going, OTM 5.56 will all but disintegrate)
Easier to point/aim/manipulate
The only downside is that it is louder in enclosed spaces, which hardly matters in a life/death situation.
Not useful for hunting? 70gr OTM match has taken MANY a whitetail deer. Irrelevant however, since the legality of owning an AR-15 has absolutely nothing to do with hunting.
I'm sorry, but if you don't know what you are talking about, keep your mouth shut. Do some research. |
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