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Money, Power & The American Dream

Hits: 5445 | Rating: (3.3) | Category: Community & Lifestyle | Added by: kitteh9lives
Page: 1 2 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 298 Posts
Friday, December 07, 2012 6:04:59 AM
Basically what I'm trying to say is I think they need to change the tax code on capital gains, not normal income.

Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 298 Posts
Friday, December 07, 2012 6:02:29 AM
The 27% tax rate is for the households that actually pay income tax on normal income, which in most cases are small business owners and the like, there are very few of the mega rich who even collect normal income (i.e. paychecks). As I said before most of the mega rich in this country get 100% of their income from capital gains, which means they pay no other taxes than the 15% on their capital gains income. Aside from that most of their other assets are held overseas in tax havens (as Romney displayed he does) so they don't have to pay taxes on interest.

Male, 50-59, Canada
 29220 Posts
Thursday, December 06, 2012 3:36:56 PM
@DragonAce: What's incorrect?
The OVERALL rate of taxation is 27% on the top 1%. It's simple math! It doesn't matter HOW MANY "loopholes" exist: the NET revenue from them = 27% of ALL TAXES collected.

So if the Capital Gains portion of their income maxs out at 15%? That means the rest of their income is taxed at a much higher rate! Duh!

Overall, when all is said & done: 'the rich' pay higer rates period.

Not "on paper", not "before exemptions & loopholes" AFTER all that, they pay 27% of ALL Federal taxes gathered.

Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 298 Posts
Thursday, December 06, 2012 12:30:29 PM
Incorrect, long term capital gains are usually taxed at a flat rate of 15%.

Taken directly from the IRS site (link below):

"The tax rates that apply to net capital gain are generally lower than the tax rates that apply to other income. For 2010, the maximum capital gains rate for most people is 15%. For lower-income individuals, the rate may be 0% on some or all of the net capital gain. Special types of net capital gain can be taxed at 25% or 28%."

Ten Fact about Capital Gains and Losses

Male, 50-59, Canada
 29220 Posts
Thursday, December 06, 2012 10:30:21 AM

Oh, I do have one saved!
See? The left shows ACTUAL TAXES PAID while the right shows acutal income earned. It's "upside down" from what we're used to seeing, but the green (top 20%) PAYS apx 70% of ALL taxes gathered, while they earn just over 50% (right side) of income earned.

The top 1%? Earn about 20% of all income, but PAY about 27%...

Any way you slice it: The rich pay more already!

Not "in theory" not "before loopholes" IN FACT.

Male, 50-59, Canada
 29220 Posts
Thursday, December 06, 2012 10:21:44 AM
@Dragonace: If you look at the ACTUAL numbers on what "the rich" pay? It's much higher than the middle-class. That's NOT "in theory" it's the actual amount!
Which, one presumes, includes the capital gains rate is included.
So you & @QZ are just plain wrong! Facts are: the rich ALREADY pay a higher % rate, period!
I don't have the spiffy charts & links handy, but can summon them!

@Modwain: True, greedy banks & investors are involved, but they took the RISK and in this case got burned.
However: NOW they won't loan more money to Greece, and THAT is a huge problem! Tempt them with even higher intrest rates? That's a doomsday solution, encouraging more greed!

They HAVE TO cut spending, since there's NO MORE money to be borrowed. Soon the USA will be in that situation too! By "soon" I mean eventually, it might take a decade...

Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 298 Posts
Thursday, December 06, 2012 8:15:44 AM
I think its funny how you guys keep saying the rich pay higher taxes than anyone else. That may apply to a select few, but the majority of the rich people in America earn their money from capital gains and pay a much lower rate than the rest of us. Then on top of that they simply take advantage of the various loopholes and exceptions in the tax system to lower their tax rate to virtually zero.

Male, 40-49, Europe
 333 Posts
Thursday, December 06, 2012 6:25:17 AM
hmm, i personaly wont defend greece cause they havent really done much to prevent the problems they were in 5cats.. but now this. al lthe banking systems knew this was teh case in greece, but they kept lending them money, knowing that the other Euro lands would be forced to bail out greece.. They did teh same for example with Ireland, by keep inflating their debt on buildings and such.. now Ireland themselves called it quits where greece kept digging themselfs in..

But lets not forget, it were teh big banks gthat gave em the shovels and proclaimed that there was gold in them there hills..

thing is, there was goold in them there hills, it just wasnt for greece, it was for the banks.. and i sincerely hope that the european union will declare greece broke so teh banks aint got poo.. which will cause other countries to really hit the poocreak running.. including mine, i know.

somehow, it is time for a reset though.

Male, 30-39, Canada
 5753 Posts
Thursday, December 06, 2012 6:22:14 AM
It's just money doing what it's always done: Those with it use it to get more money and more power. Countries like the US and Canada were founded on such motives. Doesn't make it right, though.

Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2855 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 8:57:57 PM
Of course, all my problems are due to everybody else and not me. I'm perfect!

Male, 50-59, Canada
 29220 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 5:49:35 PM
@QZ: If "Paul" borrows $100 from you, and pays back $50 and NO more (calls it paid in full), then asks for another $100 from you, so he can pay "Peter" the money he owes him, what do you do?

Hint: Greece is Paul...

@QZ: It's been shown here time & again: "The Rich" pay higher rates, more overall AND it started under Reagan (he closed many loopholes AND lowered taxes on the bottom 50%).
So paying a higher rate is 'fair'?
So paying more is 'fair'?
Then demanding EVEN MORE is also fair! Very proletatiat of you, comrade!

Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 5:49:05 PM
5cats, you have proved time and again that you do not live in the same reality that the rest of us do, the world of empirical facts, evidence and observable outcomes. Therefore I'm done with you.

Go lick frozen moose balls.

Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 5:46:07 PM
They live in a society from which they have benefited from and continue to benefit from, they owe some back to that same society that allowed them to get as far as they have.

If everyone just decided to keep everything they made for themselves and contribute nothing back in return, you could kiss advanced modern civilization goodbye. This is not about jealousy or resentment, it's about one segment of the population shirking it's responsibility in the Social Contract.

We should also be mindful of the fact that the poor cannot contribute the same because they have to worry about things rich people never have to, things like putting a roof over their heads or food on their tables.

See them as an investment, make them upwardly mobile and we all gain in the big picture.

Male, 50-59, Canada
 29220 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 5:43:35 PM
@QZ: I paraphrase Roosevelt's Finance Minister (or whatever his title was) about the "New Deal":

"We spent a billion dollars, and all we got was a billion dollars further in debt" (1930's dollars that was a LOT!)

I'd disagree, the purpose of the "New Deal" wasn't to END the depression but to "wait it out", eh? In that regard it worked very well.

You're still an idiot though.
Spend to help end a recession or depression = OK
SAVE during boom times = NEVER done.

If you only do one (spend) your economy WILL COLLAPSE! Like Greece, Ireland, Spain & soon the USA!

Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 621 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 5:37:02 PM
you mean you're worse?

Male, 50-59, Western US
 34663 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 5:36:56 PM

"what matters is what you do with your wealth and privilege. Do you use it to do the morally right thing and uplift those most in need "

If you're done spending other people's money...
It's theirs, it's up to them, not others to decide what the right thing to do with it is. But this increasingly common resentment of the rich is unhealthy jealousy.

I am in favor of the rich paying the same percentage in taxes on their income, that's fair. But so should the poor. Fair is fair for everyone, right?

Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 5:17:01 PM
Coming from you, it's a honey sweet compliment, bottie.

Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 621 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 5:16:04 PM
QZ...you are an idiot

Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 5:10:26 PM
The piece de resistance.

You know him, you love him, you can't live without him! Wheel chair overcomer, WW2 winner and all around Presidential Bada$$ Franklin Delano Roosevelt!!

Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 5:04:36 PM
Creating revenue involves taxing, it definitively does not involve tax cuts, which we learned through the CBO this year when they published their research dating back to 1945. There is no such thing as the budget fairy & *tax cuts do not create revenue.*

Spending is not the problem. In a down economy when no else can spend, federal stimulus is the answer to regenerate Demand. I don't care how much cash you give Supply, if no one can buy what they make, it's an exercise in futility.

I don't care about the Jahb Creaytahs throwing hissy fits about how much they get taxed. You really think they're gonna "Go Galt" and book it because now all they can make is 5 billion instead of 5.5 billion? Tough t*tties. They'll do business because that's what companies do, business. If they don't, they fail at existence and the rest of us will cheerfully wave them off into that Randian pipe dream.

Male, 50-59, Canada
 29220 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 5:00:33 PM
"Funny I never thought of you as a hateful guy."
@Cajun: I've seen little besides hate from him...

Every government, in every country, is as bad or WORSE than the USA.

You know of a "Socialist Utopia"? Tell us so we can ALL move there!

I Know! The Netherlands!
Oh, wait, they plan to "relocate troublesome people" to selected "scum villiages" where they'll be forced to live with... other "scum".
That rules out 50% of IABers moving there

Male, 50-59, Canada
 29220 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 4:47:59 PM
@QZ but the "solution" to the USA's deficit crisis is: "Take More Money From 'The Rich'" which dozens of IABers have parroted.

Not only would that NOT solve the problem, it would make things WORSE.
Understand? Y'all would still have deficits, but 'The Rich' would excercise their freedom and MOVE! They'd move their money away, close industry in the (higher tax) USA and POOF! NO MORE TAX REVENUE from them!
It has happened in the UK and is happening there once again!
Why do you think John Lennon lived in New York City? For the cozy environment? Nope! If he set foot on British Soil he owed BILLIONS in unpaid taxes. He didn't like the 90% tax rate, so he fled. YES, really, 90%...

Until SPENDING is cut? Y'all have a huge and growing problem.
Obama's solution: redistribute the wealth...

Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 4:32:17 PM
You know gerry, I don't think I've ever heard myself or any of my Liberal fellows ever say being rich or well to do was evil. After all, we have quite a few political ancestors of blessed memory that, financially speaking, make your saint Ronnie Raygun look like a common busboy.

No what matters is what you do with your wealth and privilege. Do you use it to do the morally right thing and uplift those most in need (an incessant injunction found all throughout the Judeoxian scriptures cons claim to revere most above all).

Or do you become a purveyor of Dickensian dystopia where you create an impermeable wealth incumbency for those at the very top while callously declaring like Scrooge, "Are there no work houses? Are there no debtor's prisons?" When it comes to everybody else.

This is the gravity of the situation.

Male, 50-59, Western US
 34663 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 2:59:32 PM

Liberal tripe.
Being rich does not make you evil.
It doesn't make you right, wrong, or good & moral.
It just makes you comfortable.

Being poor does not make you right.
It doesn't make you deserving of anything more.
It doesn't mean a thing except you can't buy as much.

Get up & Get Over It.

Male, 18-29, Western US
 1051 Posts
Wednesday, December 05, 2012 2:04:12 PM
Something needs to change.

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