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American Health Care Vs. The World's Prices [Pic]

Hits: 15543 | Rating: (2.9) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: fancylad
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Qystein
Male, 18-29, Europe
 159 Posts
Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:50:02 PM
You live in such underdeveloped countries that you have to pay for people to help you when you are sick? Pay for others when you are able trough taxes, and they do the same to you when you need it the most.

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 273 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 11:11:02 PM
@QueenZira
I hope you are right.
We'll see.

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 4:40:33 PM
Essersmith,

"A country that has been fighting socialistic concepts since before most of us were born."

Not true, in the 19th century prominent American economists were writing scathing critiques of the way European pirate capitalism shamelessly exploited the "Hindoos" and gave nothing of value back to society. We have been a Social Democracy for most of our history, current malaise notwithstanding. And it may interest you to know that in our latest health care merry go round over 70% supported the Public Option, which would essentially have given us what the rest of the western industrialized world has.

We are the original comeback kid, don't count us out yet.

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 273 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 1:08:52 PM
@Kalimata
You misunderstood me. Im all for universal healthcare. Living in scandinavia I enjoy all the benefits of a remarkably good political system.

All im saying is: I agree, but good luck applying it to a country that have been fighting socialistic concepts since before most of us were born. They are not ready for it and they wont be for a long time.

Arguing back and forth is a moot situation since "we" are not going to give up the working universal healthcare that we know and have. And "they" are not going to admit that it might actually be a better solution...
And why would they? Its the land of the free and home of the brave with liberty and justice for all...
You know.. for some..

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5718 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 11:41:40 AM
Mabey we should look at why they and pharm companies charge so much.

There's an interesting idea. Our government negotiates rates with these companies and the rates we have are much lower than yours. Definitely something worth looking at. However I foresee cries of "class warfare" if that were the case.

Kalimata
Male, 30-39, Canada
 660 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 11:29:06 AM
@Essersmith
Dude, I'm Canadian, already have.

I guess perhaps I've lived with it for so long that the idea of not having universal healthcare is abhorrent.

I have no problem with my tax dollars going to help someone else receive cancer drugs. I know that their dollar is going to pay for my visit to a GP when I have strep throat. And if they don't pay taxes due to low income, whatever, don't bother me none.

Overall it benefits society. If it didn't, well then most of the developed world would have abandoned universal healthcare, which they haven't so...

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 11:04:47 AM
JohnKelley

"Great, next let us compare quality and length of wait before service."

OF COURSE there isn't as long a wait. Half the people can't afford to get in line. Jesus Christ.

What is going to have longer waits, the store selling $8,000 iPads or the store selling free iPads?

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 590 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 10:58:27 AM
>>>Great, next let us compare quality and length of wait before service.<<<

And perhaps one day we will use a metric that really matters like survival or complication rates.

johnkelley
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 59 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 10:44:09 AM
Great, next let us compare quality and length of wait before service.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13456 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 10:27:46 AM
So now how is shoving health insurance down our throats going to fix hospitals charging way too much? Isn't it the health insurance companies that help get prices like this? Mabey we should look at why they and pharm companies charge so much.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 9:37:55 AM
That still seems pricey.

Admittedly, I probably could have gotten a couple hundred dollars off by driving to the cities; it wasn't worth my time. Also, this was "out of pocket" with pretax dollars because of the HSA + HDHP.

Basically, this is how my insurance works... I fund an HSA with pretax dollars (up to ~$3000/year) and can use that for any health expenses. Now, the HDHP is the actual insurance. Each year, I am liable for up to $2000 out of pocket expenses (preventative care is free). Whether an MRI, prescription, X-ray, etc. I have to pay 100%. Then, after $2000, it becomes HMO style (I pay 20%) until I've paid $2400. Anything else for the year is covered completely by the HDHP.

The nice thing is that it is pretax and I can choose any provider (since I'm paying). If something goes terribly wrong, I'm still covered. My insurance costs about $35/month.

LillianDulci
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 2696 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 9:26:21 AM
"To those Americans who say their treatment wait times are shorter - of course they are, because .. NOT EVERONE GETS TO WAIT IN LINE IN YOUR COUNTRY!"

Exactly! My mom had an issue, couldn't even see the doctor about it for 6 months because she didn't have insurance and couldn't afford it. Once she got insurance, it took another 6 months for them to figure out the issue and then book her for the procedure (which did have a wait time of about 2 months for her, and they pushed her ahead of people due to the seriousness of her condition). Then turns out her issue is different than they thought so the surgery didn't fix her anyway, and she's out $1500 for an unnecessary surgery which would have been impossible to pay for without the insurance and she still has the condition but doesn't get any kind of compensation.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 9:22:06 AM
Kalimata

"Why is this even argued over?"

Because even though every person in here, or pretty much period, who lives in Canada and Europe and has universal healthcare loves it, the ignorant Americans who don't know anything other than what right wing pundits tell them, think it will be disastrous.

For reference see: papajon0s1

They are the same ones who say "America is the greatest country on earth!" without having ever been to any other countries.

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 273 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 9:08:32 AM
@Kalimata
Now apply it!

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5718 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 9:06:41 AM
Assuming HMO's are the only option...

Well admittedly I do not know all of your available options. HMOs are the ones I see in figures most often, but as you've said there are possibly cheaper alternatives.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5718 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 9:04:37 AM
MRI through my GF's HMO is $3600 (limited choices). If I use my HSA and choose the best facility, I can get one for roughly $1000.


That still seems pricey. I had an MRI a number of months ago, and rather than wait I went to a private clinic and my MRI was $700 out of my own pocket, no insurance.

Kalimata
Male, 30-39, Canada
 660 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 8:46:07 AM
Why is this even argued over?

Universal health care is a better system, hands down.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 8:40:19 AM
There are people in this country that believe we shouldn't pay taxes at all.

Yes - they're called anarchists and they are either ignorant or insane.

However, many people - such as myself (and most Libertarians I've have the pleasure speaking with) - think that tax collection should be delegated to the states. The federal government should then collect whatever taxes are necessary from the states rather than the individual.

States, or even regional pacts of States should create the legislation in this country. The reasoning behind this is simply to maximize the number of choices for each individual.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 8:29:25 AM
No-one complains about paying for the fire department, or infrastructure, or the military or whatever via their taxes, do they? (Or maybe they do, correct me if I'm wrong).

Fire department (police etc.) are local taxes. Infrastructure SHOULD be only local/state. Military assets (at least the Navy and Marine Corp by extension) are Constitutionally provisioned.

You are focusing on the wrong issue. The issue is not that people are against paying taxes for healthcare. The problem is that people are against having their choices completely taken away. If a state wants to implement a universal healthcare system and taxes it's constituents, then do so by all means - that is within their power. It is not the place of the federal government.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 8:23:00 AM
If privatized healthcare is better, then partially privatized healthcare should be at least partially better.

I disagree (as if you didn't expect that). Something true of a whole is not necessarily true of the part. In my opinion, a 3rd party payer system is the worst option. A single payer system would be better (fiscally, though I don't agree with the morality), while a free market solution would be the best.

I don't think you understand how HMOs work

Assuming HMO's are the only option... I prefer an HDHP + HSA. An MRI through my GF's HMO is $3600 (limited choices). If I use my HSA and choose the best facility, I can get one for roughly $1000.

The best option is to force the payer to have some "skin in the game" (HSA) and make their own choices. In addition, they should be covered from massive injury (HDHP).

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 7:45:10 AM
papajon0s1

Only a bubble living republican would say "many people are going to needlessly die. Yes, die, as a direct result of Obamacare". Yes. More people having access to healthcare will of course equate to more people dying. Sarah Palin said so!

lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
 1805 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 6:45:28 AM
@papajon0s1 I find it hard to believe Obamacare had any effect on your paycheck in 2009 since very little, if any of it, had gone into effect then. I think your republican boss is jerking you around. My self-bought insurance hasn't gone up at all (at least no more than it has every year I've had it and I've had it over 13 years).

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5718 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 6:24:27 AM
It's not surprising, the costs are mostly administrative. To anyone here claiming that without government intervention that prices would be much lower, I don't think you understand how HMOs work, it's in their best interests to make things complicated, redundant, and costly. If privatized healthcare is better, then partially privatized healthcare should be at least partially better.

And, as I've said ad nauseum before, Canada also has provinces with a 2-tier system that allows you to pay private clinics for MRIs and such if you have the means and don't want to wait.

And saying that people don't have a right to be healthy is just silly. The state (at least here) doesn't force doctors to work in certain places or to become doctors in the first place. Rather, they incentivize doctors by offering huge signing bonuses and salaries if they'll spend 5 years practicing in a rural town. Problem is most docs don't want to.

papajon0s1
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 579 Posts
Monday, December 03, 2012 6:19:19 AM
You can make numbers say anything you want. Here's some right off my damned paycheck: "As a direct result of changes in Federal Health care Legislation" (read Obamacare), or so said the company memo back in 2009, our insurance when up %64 in 2009, then another %32 in 2010. It didn't go up in 2011 and they tried to sell us that that was so great! What a joke! Obamacare has cost me nearly $2000 since it's inception. I'd have been WAAAAAY better off had they done nothing at all! If anyone thinks that the government is going to be cheaper you're nuts! Costs are going to skyrocket all over the place and many people are going to needlessly die. Yes, die, as a direct result of Obamacare.

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 273 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:20:48 PM
@McGrendel
"People also have the right to be asswipes. It's totally a personal choice."

You pretty accurately described the thoughts i had about you there. Yes people have the right to be asswipes to eachother and Im confident you are at the front lines of asswipes.

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