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30 States Are Now Trying To Secede from USA [Pic+]

Hits: 12612 | Rating: (2.8) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: schecter5
Page: 1 2 3 4 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
OutWest
Male, 50-59, Western US
 548 Posts
Saturday, November 17, 2012 9:32:43 AM
So in 2012, if they want to secede and create their own new country, it isn't OK?

tedgp
Male, 30-39, Europe
 3283 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:08:46 AM
Its actually 2 states. The rest are sheep, tagging along for the "popular" thing.

NNoamfer
Male, 18-29, Europe
 1192 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:05:19 AM
It's funny, since Obama's policies aren't anything new, innovative or that much controversial. There have been plenty of leaders just like him before, and even more liberal than him, yet now he is the worst one yet... The only thing that makes him completely different than other democrat presidents is his color... I wonder why republicans are pissed...

An-egg
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 866 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:34:04 PM
Also, I was hit by shrapnel from a lightning strike about a foot from my head. It makes an excellent story.

An-egg
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 866 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:11:01 PM
@Cajun247 Don't you mean serve? They are supposed to serve us and defend the constitution.
Govern indeed!

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:41:41 PM
I've always wondered: How does one collect if their place has been blown away? They have no address!

In this very unlikely situation, in which you are not covered by insurance, have ill-prepared yourself with savings, have found yourself victim of a neglectful government, so on and so forth, you should turn to private organizations.

Just to name a rather popular one, the Red Cross will be there.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:39:48 PM
If a person is disgusted enough to leave, the general public has been punished, not the officials.

I disagree entirely. I, as a Wisconsite, have no business defending Iowans from their representatives; that is their business. A public that is victimized by the government they chose have only themselves to blame.

For instance, I was raised in New York and went to college there. The politics and fiscal nature of New York are horrendous in my opinion. Since the overwhelming majority of occupants there agree with the government, I cannot hope to change the representation. Hence, it is my responsibility to leave and migrate to a state that shares my beliefs.

So, I moved to Wisconsin.

I love this notion that changing your representative is the only option. The concept of a republic encourages you to seek states with ideals similar to your own.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5189 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:39:42 PM
"...someone like you could become John Doe, has chances of a lightning strike on a given day divided by a billion..."
And yet, I've been in three fires, three tornadoes (two on the same day,) two 4.0 earthquakes (in different states...)

Come to think of it, I've been next to a lightning strike...

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10272 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:10:36 PM
the general public has been punished, not the officials


What the officials DON'T find themselves short of someone to govern?

A person could be like myself with no family, spouse or children.
I've always wondered: How does one collect if their place has been blown away? They have no address!



The way I see a scenario where even someone like you could become John Doe, has chances of a lightning strike on a given day divided by a billion, and that would be overstating the odds. Bruntly it's a snowball's chance in Hell.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5189 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 4:39:35 PM
"People will flee the state permanently"
See, there. If a person is disgusted enough to leave, the general public has been punished, not the officials.

It takes resources to leave. A person could be like myself with no family, spouse or children.
I've always wondered: How does one collect if their place has been blown away? They have no address!

Your house is gone. Your BANK is gone.
Your f*cking LAWYER is gone! Where do you go?!
XD

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 3:38:42 PM
@CodeJockey: Unforunately, I do not believe there is a way to prove either of our stances.

I do not particularly think that optioning would be an issue. To me, the (proposed) solution is self-regulating. For instance, let us say that there is a midwest organization.

What is the chance that it becomes corrupt enough to warrant leaving in the first place? I think it is unlikely considering what is at stake for either side (funding vs risk).

Let's say North Dakota leaves, neglects setting up a proper EMA system, and then experiences a devastating wildfire. People will flee the state permanently, and the governing officials who were so utterly stupid will fail to win reelections.

It is through these means of extended term self-regulation that the system would (over time) stabilize and succeed.

Then again, how can either of us know for sure without trying it?

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5189 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:56:22 PM
Cats, WTF are you on about?
What I was talking about was his photo-op with a bunch of kids where he blurted: "Who let the dogs out?" Trying to crack a joke, people gave him 'the look.' The look was just short of the stink-eye...

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5189 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:49:03 PM
Human
Regional is better but, optioning makes funding obfuscated at best. SOMEONE has to show up even if people haven't paid their forest fire tax. No one state can absorb the cost of one of those.

Cajun, I'm sure Detroit used accredited engineers to design the sewage system but it still was not large enough my neighborhood ended up with flooded basements despite being well above sea level. Lowest bidder?
After the civil improvements it took 3 or 4 times more rain without a problem.
80's: Still tougher than this.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25685 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:10:25 PM
"It has nothing to do with Obama being re-elected."

@markust? @aj is correct: these sorts of petitions have been around since WW1! You playing the "race card" is pathetic...

@CodeJockey and @indisguise: *sigh* the dog-thing? Really?
#1 Was it illegal then? NO! Is it illegal now? NO!
#2 Was the dog harmed, on in any form of danger or duress? NO!
Truth > propoganda
It's really sad that so many people actually think THIS DOG is a more important issue than 16 TRILLION IN DEBT! ffs...

HELL YEAH, THE FIRST POST I HAVE EVER SUBMITTED THAT ACTUALLY GOT POSTED!

Congradulations @schecter5! Welcome to the club!

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25685 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 1:59:57 PM
You "liberal" Americans are so funny!

Other nations have split up before! Remember Czechoslovakia? NOW it's Czech Republic AND Slovakia! Peaceful, mutually agreed upon split-up. Not the end of the world.

The USSR split up!

Canada has a dumb-ass province that has TWICE held a VOTE on splitting!

I say: WE should vote if Quebec is ALLOWED to stay... goodbye Frogs! Take your f-ing "Second National Anthem" with you!

SECESSION is not a bad thing! CIVIL WAR, however, is!

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25685 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 1:50:10 PM
"Wait, and it certainly couldn’t have to do with the re-election of that…black guy, could it?"

Hummm, they just said it's about the economy and tyrrany... PLAY THE RACE CARD!!! Of course!

"...but who has bayonets nowadays?"

Um, The US Army? Every army in the whole world has them?

Race baiting, cheap shots, ignore the facts? YUP! Written by a liberal for sure!

4 pages of comments to wade through? UGH!

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10272 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 1:45:28 PM
city who's civil engineering needed FEMA to rework


Why not ABET certified engineers? Why not AAEE, NSPE, or ASCE? There are even widely recognized accountant boards. It's not like everyone's going to be oblivious to a natural disaster these days.

flood plain projects than my state government who wants to appoint an EMA


Since their inception FEMA's approach to disaster relief has been consistently clumsy and obtrusive. Sure SOME have benefited, but FEMA's reputation is far from spotless.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 1:41:00 PM
Where we disagree is you seem to feel 50 different committees would out perform 1 manager with consultants for each disaster.

This is apparently where I have not made myself clear enough.

My ultimate reasoning is not that 50 managers > 1; it is that states rights need to be protected. Even if the states came together and formed one massive organization (though I think regionals would be best), it is better than the federal government doing it. In this way, if the organization gets out of control, the states can individually choose to abandon it. Essentially, since it is voluntary, we create a check and balance system. Any abuse of power leads to reduced membership (and funding) which results in reduced power.

When the federal government creates a program (or law, ahem individual mandate), there is no ability to opt-out. As such, the program is free(er) to overreach.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5189 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 1:12:16 PM
No, no. We're close to saying the same thing.

Where we disagree is you seem to feel 50 different committees would out perform 1 manager with consultants for each disaster.

I think the FEMA, from whom I've already personally benefited, is better equipped to manage flood plain projects than my state government who wants to appoint an EMA for financial issues when we just elected a governor to do that or my city who's civil engineering needed FEMA to rework.

They are doing their job.
Just need to rework some of that scary language in their job description.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 12:54:43 PM
By keeping management as close to the event as possible, while still adequately covering all of your constituents, you guarantee the strongest and most proper response possible for that locale.

In times of extraordinary need, neighboring state agencies will assist. Allowing the federal government to interfere in every disaster is rather like bring a sledge hammer to every project.

In the event you are demolishing a wall, then it is excellent. But what if you only need to remove a screw? And what if you need a rubber mallet instead?

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 12:50:44 PM
@CodeJockey: You aren't listening to what I am saying. I am not suggesting that some mystical presence will simply manage a disaster for us. In fact, I have adamently and consistently stated that each STATE should assume that role rather than the federal government. Even a group of states creating an agency would be fine.

I am fine with the federal government planning for an asteroid strike, because such an event would have a direct effect on all of the consistuents within their jurisdiction. Sandy does not, and therefore, should be handled by agencies more representative of the people suffering from its effects.

You're thinking: The federal government alone can adequately provide relief in the event of catastrophy.
I'm thinking: The federal government is less wise about the effects of hurricanes than North Carolina, the effects of tornados than Oklahoma, or blizzards than Buffalo.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5189 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 12:39:54 PM
You come from a world where the planet is being mapped from space.

You're thinking "Someone will handle it."
I'm thinking "If you don't specifically assign someone to handle it, it will be handled poorly at best and the fewer managers, the better, to a point."

You are thinking "I think their power is too far reaching." I don't disagree.
I'm thinking "I wonder if they have a plan for an asteroid strike...."

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5189 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 12:23:23 PM
OK then. Maybe it's phrased too strongly but, let's try this:
The world is flat and as far as you know, all the world is the valley you've lived in your entire life. There, no one you've ever met has ever been outside the valley.
What would it look like if, one day, torrential rain fell for a month straight? If this valley is all the world you've known, you might think the world ended...

How about if you lived on a volcanic island. You see sailors and traders occasionally. They tell you "This island has the biggest, best fruit in all the world." One day, the ground starts to shake, the volcano explodes then, the entire island sinks into the ocean. Did your world end? How long until people stop telling the tale?

Think back to the tidal wave. When it happened, people in the US knew in less than 2 minutes.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:11:53 AM
@CodeJockey: Perhaps the miscommunication is in the phrase "civilization ending." To me, this implies that, after the event in question, the civilization no longer exists; as in, it is completely gone.

With that definition, not a single item on that list was "civilization ending". Smallpox and the Native Americans (or NDNs as @dm would insist I say) was such an event. Some estimates suggest upwards of 90% mortality as a result of that event, and it completely destroyed the civilization.

Hell, even Y. pestis during the middle ages was not a "civilization ending" event.

papajon0s1
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 579 Posts
Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:34:41 AM
Love it. The lefties are going nuts over this. Careful what you wish for lefties because once all the people that produce stuff and do things leave, who are you going to tax for your entitlement utopia?

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