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America's Health Care System = A Massive Pig

Hits: 7786 | Rating: (3.0) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: kitteh9lives
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
HiEv
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 598 Posts
Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:23:12 AM
@OldOllie: You obviously have no idea that the legitimate functions of government are not solely contained in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Furthermore, if *you* had actually read the US Constitution you'd be aware that the *first* of Congress' enumerated powers is to "lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts AND PROVIDE FOR THE common defence (sic.) and GENERAL WELFARE of the United States" (emphasis mine). This is the same part of the Constitution that gives Congress the right to make laws supporting education and farming.

If you're going to chide someone for not reading something, you might want to make sure you've read it and understood it yourself first.

KitFox
Female, 30-39, Eastern US
 506 Posts
Monday, June 11, 2012 4:31:44 PM
I think we've reached maximum troll overdrive here *LOL*

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10283 Posts
Monday, June 11, 2012 2:52:08 PM
to the idea that having more babies means that your system is strained and a greater percentage are dying as a result, it appears that you are DRASTICALLY misunderstanding what the infant mortality RATE actually *is*.



Actually now that you mention it I decided to delve a little deeper into this anomoly. Turns out how infant mortality is calculated is inconsistent on a global basis. On the other hand considering you haven't nitpicked at anything else it's a bit of a stretch to say I'm uninformed.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Monday, June 11, 2012 5:46:28 AM
@Cajun247

"infant mortality is because we have a higher birth rate"

*facepalm*

Unless you're referring, in a roundabout way, to the idea that having more babies means that your system is strained and a greater percentage are dying as a result, it appears that you are DRASTICALLY misunderstanding what the infant mortality RATE actually *is*.

If that's the case, you shouldn't be claiming to have an informed opinion on this subject.

mcboozerilla
Male, 30-39, Europe
 649 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 2:26:47 PM
9 times out of 10 IAB'ers from the "Southern US" don't know poo from shinola. Why are most of you so incredibly ignorant and stupid?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10283 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:58:11 PM
mortality & infant mortality


Well lets see life expantancy (assuming that's what you meant) isn't too different among developed countries so yeah not a good indicator, and infant mortality is because we have a higher birth rate. Meanwhile only a fifth of breast cancer patients die in the US while the fraction is higher in other countries.

if your government actually makes profit on you than you got bigger problems than health care


That is THE VERY NATURE of people and thus THE VERY NATURE OF GOVERNMENT not just AMERICAN GOVT but ANY GOVT. Thus, because the govt doesn't have to deal with those pesky market signals like businesses do, it is slow, inefficient and, if left unchecked, can use force to get results despite the consequences.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10283 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:48:15 PM
Your organ donor system is a charity?


No there would be times hospitals would provide free services people would see the generosity and go to THAT hospital more often, or donate money.

why are the actual transplant operations then not part of charity


What says they aren't?

If organ donor wasn’t set like this, a kidney would go for couple of mill, a heart for half a billion, etc.


Ironically banning people from selling their organs has created a scarcity.

You’re getting away w/ it because it’s not at once and people the injustice is done to are mostly dead, but give it couple more decades & there will be enough relatives, children & parents of those who died who'll pay you back for your greed.


...or we do away with the ridiculous overregulation allowing the markets to provide better healthcare.

Zeegrr60
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 1962 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 12:48:49 PM
Healthcare and Oil. my a$$ hurts.

stell
Female, 40-49, Canada
 64 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 11:44:19 AM
OldOllie- "if you needed surgery, you waited all your life in communism"?? Ha, ha, that's ridiculous, you don't know what you're talking about, but that's OK I don't even know what you're discussing now anyway.

stell
Female, 40-49, Canada
 64 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 11:36:25 AM
The supposedly long wait lines in Canada are BS, another scare tactic propagated by big insurance companies. My relative was diagnosed with colon cancer at 83 yrs old, had the surgery to remove half her colon 2.5 weeks later, chemo 2 weeks after. The cancer has spread to lymph nodes, she’s still completely covered at 86 yrs old with no death panels discussing her case. That is an average case in Canada. Oh and she's still living and thriving despite a myriad of health problems.

“:...and replaced it with another profit grabbing middle man - the Government” – if your government actually makes profit on you than you got bigger problems than health care, I’m done.


stell
Female, 40-49, Canada
 64 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 11:33:36 AM
It will eventually lead to the breakdown of society “elaborate”.
If you had a gross injustice such as lack of healthcare done to so many people all AT ONCE you’d certainly have social uprisings– riots, etc. You’re getting away w/ it because it’s not at once and people the injustice is done to are mostly dead, but give it couple more decades & there will be enough relatives, children & parents of those who died who'll pay you back for your greed.

Your organ donor system is a charity? Wrong - why are the actual transplant operations then not part of charity? If organ donor wasn’t set like this, a kidney would go for couple of mill, a heart for half a billion, etc. It'd be immoral. It's a scarce resource w/ no alternatives,like health care.

Your link claims that mortality & infant mortality aren't good indices of better healthcare but the greater no. of procedures done in US is! LMAO,classic stats manipulation

bloomi
Male, 18-29, Europe
 133 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 9:31:23 AM
For all the people who complain about it the NHS system in the UK worked well until recently when the population exploded, and still works reasonably well even now (I'm not even going to entertain a conversation on why the population has exploded, as much as I would like to, since it is not relevant to this topic).

Rather than running hospitals for profit and having the government pay for use, have the government run the hospitals in the first place. Because they are then not run as for profit enterprises, it is cheaper, and make health care for everyone much more affordable.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14445 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 9:31:22 AM
HiEv, you obviously have no clue as to what is a legitimate function of government and what is not. The purpose of government should be to protect the rights of individuals. It's all spelled out in the U.S. Declaration of Independence and Constitution. You ought to try reading them sometimes.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14445 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 9:23:02 AM
@stell, Stalin cound not have starved the Ukranians without centralized government control, i.e., socialism -- no socialism, no starvation. The very essence of socialism IS "fat bastards" at the top making decisions for everyone else. And yes, they DID control the food supply at evrery step from the collective farm to the government store. They also controlled the supply of everything else, and they had chronic shortages of EVERYTHING. You had go stand in line for bread, and you had to wait for YEARS to get a car. And if you needed major surgery, you likely waited for the rest of your life.

The problem we have isn't due to a lack of government control. The US hasn't had a free-market health care system since WW II. The problem with our health care system is that it's already about 70% socialist. The bigger problem, though, is idiots like you who think the problem is that it's ONLY 70% socialist.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10283 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 9:18:09 AM
Way to ruin the comments Cajun247.


Oooohh I'm so scared by a former moderator's finger-waiving. Oooohh!

madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6461 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 8:27:51 AM
Way to ruin the comments Cajun247.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 6:12:26 AM

snicker @ StudentLaw ... "old trollie" haha
You know that's coming up again some day

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10283 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 5:08:51 AM
[quote">It will eventually lead to the breakdown of the society[/quote">

Please elaborate.

[quote">Would you let the organs go to the highest bidder instead of the sickest person?[/quote">

False dichotomy. Charity is possible in a free market system as it's good PR.

[quote">Finally, don't believe the scare stories about our system - it's simply not true. Our wait lines are not that long, our care is very good there is no such thing as death panels and doctors get paid very well by the government.[/quote">

One of the 5 Myths of socialized medicine

[quote">We simply removed the profit grabbing middle man - the greedy insurance companies.[/quote">

...and replaced it with another profit grabbing middle man - the Government.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10283 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 4:53:58 AM
Soviets never took over providing food for their citizens. The shortages were result of fat bastards in top Politburo scheming & stealing money for themselves. Not much different from capitalism today except now it's corporations doing the stealing.


Right which is what the SOCIALIST SYSTEM gave them the power to do so. You also make yet another failed criticism of capitalism as obviously got it confused with cronysim.

I can walk into my doctor's office, be seen, walk out and never see a bill. I can go to the hospital and be treated, go home and never see a bill.


Your hospital bill:

Kain1
Male, 18-29, Europe
 1463 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 3:03:43 AM
Americans truly are a strange people.. They can look at this chart and still think their system is the best in the world..

furrything
Male, 50-59, Europe
 860 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 2:00:10 AM
....was there any need for that bloody awful music?

Student_Law
Male, 30-39, Europe
 966 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:32:17 AM
OldOllie: I don't know who this Ricardo is, but he is a terrible philosopher - that's for sure.

Rights imposes obligations on others. In general legal philosophy rights answer to obligations, just like freedom answer to prohibition. A known example is if you get arrested the police will say "you have the right to an attorney" and if you can't afford one, you will get one anyway - because of the governments obligation to provide one.

This "logic" of yours is representative for the rest of your deluded argumentation as well, especially the part where you use the Soviet as an example of public health care.

You should change your nick to "OldTrollie" ... :-p

stell
Female, 40-49, Canada
 64 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 12:33:30 AM
And finally, in all our cases it's the doctors who took the hippocratic oath to do the best for the patient, who are making the decisions about the care, not the insurance corporations who have to answer to shareholders regarding their profit. Enough said.

stell
Female, 40-49, Canada
 64 Posts
Sunday, June 10, 2012 12:26:06 AM
Old Ollie - That is the biggest problem with your healthcare, they can make so much money, because no one can actually walk away and say, I'll do without, that they refuse cases they deem not profitable. It will eventually lead to the breakdown of the society. Anyway, would you let your organ donor system be similar to healthcare? Would you let the organs go to the highest bidder instead of the sickest person? That would be immoral wouldn't it? So why are you doing the same with healthcare?
Finally, don't believe the scare stories about our system - it's simply not true. Our wait lines are not that long, our care is very good there is no such thing as death panels and doctors get paid very well by the government. We simply removed the profit grabbing middle man - the greedy insurance companies.

stell
Female, 40-49, Canada
 64 Posts
Saturday, June 09, 2012 11:57:39 PM
OldOllie 1)10 mil Ukrainians died from DELIBARATE starvation ordered by Stalin not due to shortages,it's considered a genocide.
2)Soviets never took over providing food for their citizens. The shortages were result of fat bastards in top Politburo scheming & stealing money for themselves. Not much different from capitalism today except now it's corporations doing the stealing.
3)Of course your lines for healthcare are shorter than those in Canada because...... NOT EVERYONE GETS TO STAND IN LINE in you country!
4)Those Canadian licence plates you see close to the borders (btw how do you see that in the midwest) are us doing our shopping..
5)Healthcare is a right. It's unique from food/shelter. You have alternatives for those. You can grow their own food for ex., whereas healthcare is a service with scarce resources.It creates situations where providers having no competition(witch doctors not as good)can increasingly charge more,refuse cases with little profit, etc.

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