 Linkenberger
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1069 Posts
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Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:23:03 PM
"Nothing wrong with arming and training to protect yourself, your property and your family. Nothing wrong with preparation for extreme situations, no matter what you perceive them to be.
What's wrong with this picture is that you don't do the following:
1. You don't plot to make the first strike.
2. You don't involve innocent people."
I gotta agree with that. I think the gov't should send these people on spec ops. They've obviously got some talent. They just need something productive to train on, like INSURGENTS. |
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 CodeJockey
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
2521 Posts
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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:00:13 PM
"Are you seriously stating that when police make an arrest, a conviction is assured?"
No.
My statement was not literal but, since we lack the convenience of hearing each other tone of voice, I'll be more literal with my future statements.
To clarify the context of my statement:
I'm not talking about Joe Schmo getting busted by high stressed patrolman for saying "F-you" when asked for ID.
I ask you: How often, in the US, does an entire group of 30 or so heavily armed Feds RAID the properties of an entire associated group
WITHOUT WEEKS, UP TO MONTHS of PRIOR INVESTIGATION?
Since it is expensive to mobilize groups, it must be fairly rare.
So, I would be very surprised if it turned out that an ENTIRE GROUP, including the leader's family, were picked up because Sheriff Lobo had a problem with the leader's web site.
BTW, the film looks like unrelated footage of the MM practicing. |
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 Genocyde
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
711 Posts
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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:04:18 PM
::And so I get this straight, the heavily armed militant group who talks of an approaching war is innocent::
Until proven guilty in a court of law, yes. |
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Genocyde
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
711 Posts
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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:01:09 PM
::No one gets arrested for nothing.::
So, let me see if I'm crystal clear on this little issue here. Are you seriously stating that when police make an arrest, a conviction is assured? No one's ever received an acquittal in a court of law?
I'm calling you on that one because I can tell you that once someone is arrested, it's the state that bears the burden of proof in a trial conducted in a court of law. What that means is that now the state has to prove that these people have broken an existing law or laws. If they fail to do that, then these people must be released back into the public and all property returned.
I know that completely gets under your skin but it is how our system works. |
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Genocyde
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
711 Posts
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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 12:54:48 PM
::this is amusing because the bible states that by the time the anti christ gets here the rapture will have already happened and all true christians will be taken to heaven::
Really? Care to point out where? |
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Genocyde
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
711 Posts
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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 12:53:15 PM
Nothing wrong with arming and training to protect yourself, your property and your family. Nothing wrong with preparation for extreme situations, no matter what you perceive them to be.
What's wrong with this picture is that you don't do the following:
1. You don't plot to make the first strike.
2. You don't involve innocent people.
That's pretty simple.
I saw some people dressed in camo with guns running about in the woods. I didn't get a clear look at the faces so I can't say for sure that these were Hutaree members. |
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 jamie76
Male, 30-39, Western US
2249 Posts
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Monday, April 19, 2010 8:31:46 AM
so umm how is this form of radicalism different than radical muslims again?
"We hates this gov'ment but uhh gives us some lawaars cus we dont hates it that much bubba".
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 CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14460 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:55:29 PM
wtfstfu: Not every church believes in the rapture. |
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 wtfstfu
Male, 13-17, Southern US
112 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:45:24 PM
love that they say they are christians and that they are going to fight the anti christ. this is amusing because the bible states that by the time the anti christ gets here the rapture will have already happened and all true christians will be taken to heaven so how do they plan to b around to fight? |
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CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14460 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:09:03 PM
You consider it justifiable to threaten someone's life in defense of the INSURED family-mobile while no one is in physical danger?
People have a right to protect their property, My dad had no idea if the burglar was armed or not and wasn't going to risk the chance that he was.
My father was a Vietnam veteran, Trained to kill and yet he didn't fire at the guy. He did fire into the air to scare the poo out of him though.
That woke up the neighbors and the police arrived later. The police told my dad he was well within his rights to protect his property, But might've been in trouble if he'd have shot him.
Long story short, There were no more burglary attempts in the neighborhood for years afterward. |
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 lego12
Male, 13-17, Western US
5 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:15:25 PM
problem, with these people,the Bible says follow the law of the land, and the law of this land is don't kill police or threaten the government |
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 SaltyVarnish
Male, 18-29, Australia
680 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 5:02:49 PM
The news coverage reminds me of "V for Vendetta" |
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steve17
Male, 13-17, Europe
155 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 11:45:39 AM
they seem to think that the bible is an action movie... |
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CodeJockey
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
2521 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:56:02 AM
"When OBAMA declares marshal law... ...I want these guys as my neighbors..."
What strange and hostile alternate universe do you live and how is it transceiving internet with ours?
Obama isn't concerned with making your home a police state.
Obama is concerned with your being able and motivated to get off your ass and go buy something.
Stop listening to effing Rush Limbaugh. He is just trying to shock you into continuing to listen and that IS holding you down. |
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CodeJockey
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
2521 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:34:28 AM
"...leveled a shot gun right at him and he ran."
You consider it justifiable to threaten someone's life in defense of the INSURED family-mobile while no one is in physical danger? I'm hoping he wouldn't actually discharge because he MIGHT have gotten away with that in Texas.
"...school class president was killed..."
I'm asking about people you know succeeding a using a gun against a lethal threat. Granting the class president an arm does not guarantee success.
It is a struggle for police, who practice often and are required to re-qualify on interval.
"How many shots did you fire?"
"Two." *says the man standing next to five shells...*
"Damn, Michigan is crazier than Florida!"
No, Texas is crazier than Florida. Michigan is quite tame. If it were not, they'd have succeeded at digging themselves in WITH automatic weapons... |
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 milo126
Male, 18-29, Western US
104 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:00:07 AM
I'm sure this has already been said. I have to say though, this is what happens when anyone organizes any sort of military presence that isn't associated with the federal government. When OBAMA declares marshal law, and we're forced to stay in our homes at the whim and mercy of the american government. All I can say is that when the government starts knockin at my door, I want these guys as my neighbors. |
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 Brassbull
Male, 30-39, Southern US
1608 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:21:45 AM
The Only thing I read in regard the MM is that one of the Hutaree called the MM for help after the raid, looking for guns
This sentence pretty much speaks for itself. Someone who is going to be falsly persecuted by the government would probably be more concerned with seeking political assylum or some investigative assistence in exonerating themselves, not re-arming and digging a foxhole. And so I get this straight, the heavily armed militant group who talks of an approaching war is innocent and the government is making false allegations to distract people from the health care reform? You guys really think the ones who are concerned about this health care reform are going to forget because of this one incedent? |
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 auburnjunky
Male, 30-39, Southern US
8770 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:59:30 AM
@mrspoods:
Read the posts. This is a proven falsehood. |
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 MrsPoods
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
549 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 7:45:28 AM
SO, not all terrorists are Muslim? OMG, who'd have thunk it? |
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 Skooby_Doom
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
73 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:51:26 AM
Damn, Michigan is crazier than Florida! |
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Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
9677 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:27:56 AM
It happens all the time, Need I cite the people accused of rape and other sex crimes that've been released because DNA tests exonerated them ?
It goes the other way too. A case over here briefly attracted a small amount of media attention because a man was arrested on a rape charge because of DNA evidence despite the fact that he was extremely different to the alleged(*) victim's description and there was no evidence he was anywhere in the vicinity. He was able to prove his innocence by proving he was somewhere else at the time...but no doubt many people assumed he was guilty as soon as they knew he was accused and became absolutely certain of it when they read that he was arrested because of DNA evidence.
He worked in the hospital she went to. One of his hairs fell out and got caught in a ring she was wearing - that was the DNA evidence.
* I'm talking about a legal case, so in that context I don't make assumptions about guilt without a tri |
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Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
9677 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:16:52 AM
No one gets arrested for nothing.
Can I come to live in your perfect world? |
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Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
9677 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:14:54 AM
Ahh yes, the old keep myself safe from criminals bit. You must live in a pretty f*cked up society to be scared into getting a gun.
Or just one in which criminals often have guns.
The idea isn't as silly as you make it out to be. Being more dangerous than potential attackers is a reasonable goal and that's essentially what the "guns for protection" idea is about.
I'm not saying that it actually works at all well in practice, but the idea isn't completely silly. To work well in practice people would need to be able to have a loaded gun in their hand pointed at their attacker before their attacker can attack them or point at them and be sufficiently trained and be willing to kill their attacker or at least bluff well enough to convince their attacker they are.
That happens sometimes. I question whether it's worth the huge cost in lives tha results from widespread availability of guns. |
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CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14460 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:07:57 AM
No one gets arrested for nothing.
It happens all the time, Need I cite the people accused of rape and other sex crimes that've been released because DNA tests exonerated them ? |
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CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14460 Posts
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Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:03:29 AM
CodeJockey: I've read nothing about the Michigan Militia narcing on the Hutaree. The Only thing I read in regard the MM is that one of the Hutaree called the MM for help after the raid, looking for guns and shelter. The MM didn't narc on the Hutaree, They just refused to help them. |
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