 oceanbeast
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 362 Posts
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Sunday, June 21, 2009 2:10:49 PM
you don't know anything about me, but you still refuse to read legitimate sources. i have many friends from around the world, i have known a canadian couple almost 22 years now and they have always told me how health care in the u.s. is better than what canada can offer them. you think that because you say something with authority its true. obviously you think you have this problem solved in your head and that's fine but don't gpo around misinforming everyone, you do more harm that way just keep your mouth shut if you will be ignorant. |
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 madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
1104 Posts
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Sunday, June 21, 2009 1:24:52 PM
You know nothing about nationalized healthcare. in fact i doubt you've ever been out of the country. |
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oceanbeast
Male, 18-29, Southern US
362 Posts
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Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:21:42 PM
you obviously do not like to read as the link below shows an alternative thats worth trying. nationalized health care is failing every country it was implemented in. |
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madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
1104 Posts
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Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:41:15 AM
It should be nationalized. Oceanbeasts way isn't working for anybody but him and he don't care. If you don't have health insurance he says screw you and quotes Thomas Jefferson. |
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oceanbeast
Male, 18-29, Southern US
362 Posts
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Friday, June 19, 2009 5:55:41 PM
immortalzach - yes we can agree there, the system could definitely use some reforming but i don't think it should be nationalized. we could start by regulating private companies but you have to understand its a very complex procedure you cant just do something so drastic without fully comprehending the consequences. if you regulate companies one way, they might raise rates for everyone, if you deregulate companies they can be free to charge whatever and treat the few.
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/hea...please read that link that is my view on health care. wouldn't it be nice to have a competing free market for health insurance companies AND deduct ALL medical expenses from your taxes. essentially government subsidizing of your personal care. |
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 ImmortalZach
Male, 13-17, Eastern US
423 Posts
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Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:28:33 PM
oceanbeast, so your perfectly fine with some people not having any care at all? Some peoples lives are ruined because of an uninsured medical bills cost. I take back what I said about wanting Nationalized heath care but we need to make heath care somewhat affordable. Right now heath care is a MESS and it need a facelift. |
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oceanbeast
Male, 18-29, Southern US
362 Posts
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Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:44:18 AM
Immortalzach with all due respect your statement is not really coorelational. People die in the single payer nationalized health care systems as well. Not only are there longer waiting lines at ERs, ORs, and basic clinics but there are less health care professionals. These people literally put their life on the line they might get stuck with an aids infested needle or attacked by a violent person, they do not get paid as well as our health care professionals. You get put on waiting lists for everything in socialized healthcare, people die on waiting lists, many even have to come over here, buy our insurance, and seek attention here, why do you fail to recognize this? |
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ImmortalZach
Male, 13-17, Eastern US
423 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:07:47 PM
People are dying everyday from lack of Heath Care and this privatized heathcare is obviously a mess. We need national heath care for the people. Lower taxes for the bullsh*it then raise em' for heathcare. |
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 Kinga750
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
133 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:16:46 PM
Ahh stop arguing guys. Just sit back and watch the show... It's gonna be a VERY interesting decade. |
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oceanbeast
Male, 18-29, Southern US
362 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:33:07 PM
suit yourself obviously articles from countries that actually have socialized health care isn't proof enough. once again don't put me in a category with NEO-CONS i am a classic republican constitutionalist. lets stay on topic because democrats have their fair share of scandals yet i don't point them out because im not trying to distract you from the issues. if you fail to recognize that single payer is not good for america after reading some of those articles i dont know what to tell you. |
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madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
1104 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:22:46 PM
I seen your links and they're as biased as your pie chart showing Newt Gingrich as a Reagan conservative. Yeah Newty can't balance his checkbook. It's why he's not a senator anymore. Clearly republicans believe everyones forgotten the check kiting scandal of the 90's. Good luck in 2012 |
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oceanbeast
Male, 18-29, Southern US
362 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:17:32 PM
im everything you say i am, obviously you don't know me but are quick to judge so that shows how open minded you are. i sent you links so you can educate yourself did you even open them? i guess not because you still want to take an emotional stance against me rather than stand toe to toe like a man and argue with a solid base under your feet. you are wrong, we are a capitalist nation, we need more self responsibility and less of the entitlement mentality. "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." by the way i am niether white or a redneck, i know you democrats have a pretty set idea of who you are talking to but you should really read up and get to know more conservatives before you generalize scumbucket |
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madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
1104 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:13:22 PM
You are a cold hearted conservative. It's in everything you type. In your redneck little world everything America does is great! Them Europeans suck, we can't learn anything from them! You got your health insurance and to hell with the guy that don't. It's a mindset that is killing your party. Incapapble and completely unwilling to allow the other party their opportunity to right a few wrongs. You have no plan other than to bash whatever idea Obama has because what? You one of them certifiable birth certificate a-holes as well? |
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oceanbeast
Male, 18-29, Southern US
362 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:34:25 PM
uneducated burger flippers that have no ambition to make anything of themselves? they just want to live off what the government gives them.HOW IS IT SELFISH FOR ME TO WANT TO WORK FOR MY OWN POSSESSIONS AND SERVICES? YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WANTS TO TAKE FROM EVERYONE ELSE TO SPREAD MONEY AROUND LIKE YOU HAVE ANY RIGHT. BY THE WAY THE INCOME TAX IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO BEGIN WITH. HOW IS RESPONSIBILITY FOR MYSELF NOT DRINKING, SMOKING, OR EATING MYSELF TO DEATH SELFISH? YOU ARE A dratING sheep, you are not entitled to be bottle fed by the government till you die |
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oceanbeast
Male, 18-29, Southern US
362 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:29:55 PM
" I'm willing to give up what I have so that everybody has access to quality healthcare"http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healt...
read the newspaper articles from various countries, it is not "quality health care" you make it seem that because i view the world differently i am some cold hearted generally bad person. democrats are always trying to antagonize conservatives... why is that? i have said it many times i want to work for mine, you work for yours, isn't that the capitalist system? i work hard and do not want to "spread the wealth" or any of that commy talk. http://www.theadvocates.org/freeman/8903... me and my wife work hard for what we have, it is not fair to force me to subsidize health care for everyone else from drug addicts to all around |
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madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
1104 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:59:48 PM
It's working great for me as well. In fact I don't pay a dime towards my health insurance (my employer picks up 100%). But it's clear I'm in the minority and unlike you I'm willing to give up what I have so that everybody has access to quality healthcare. The majority of caring Americans feel the same. It's part of the reason why Obama is president. Too bad for you and the other selfish Americans. |
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oceanbeast
Male, 18-29, Southern US
362 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:32:48 AM
Honestly it's working pretty well for me. You hear horror stories about our system but the single payer system has tons of them too. All over europe countries that went that route are at least giving people the option to buy their own insurance. England has some market health and more countries are looking into market health care as well, maybe if you didn't read just one side of things you could make a more informed opinion, just ask pregnant women in canada that have to go to detroit because the aren't enough OBGYNs. Specialized nurses in single payer systems are overworked. My wife is a nurse and I can tell you they work damn hard for not enough pay as it is. |
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madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
1104 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:48:03 AM
That's what have now. If it works so great why would it need fixing? |
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oceanbeast
Male, 18-29, Southern US
362 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:21:06 AM
I just want to be able to pay for my own medical expenses, and I think everyone else should pay for theirs. I'm not defending the current system, I'm attacking this socialized medicine everyone thinks is so great. It's not, ask any medical professional how they feel, socialized meds mean less pay for them in a field that's already running low on man power. socialized medicine is not a good option for people with serious and chronic disease/conditions there just won't be enough funds to cover everyones dialysis etc. Private regulated competing insurance is best |
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madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
1104 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:49:02 AM
Dude you still don't even recognize the breadth of the problem. Your taxes aren't paying for other peoples insurance your insurance pays for the uninsured. So your rates are more than what they should be.
I don't like the term "socialized medicine" makes it sound like a failed political party. But it does work through-out the world. We can also make it work but we need to embrace the European single payer system.
Insurance agents should go back to insuring property only.PS: There is no provision in the Constitution that allows the majority to vote on the rights of the minority. |
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oceanbeast
Male, 18-29, Southern US
362 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:06:42 AM
And ron paul is not a libertarian, he was in the past but its clear he is a constitutionalist. What makes you think drug and marriage laws would automatically be 100% deregulated? The laws would still have to be voted on and pass in each state so your argument is just a false slippery slope buddy. People need to be forced into being more reponsible. They go out and drat around have babies they can't take care of and expect someone to pick up the slack, I'm a douchbeag for expecting you to be repsonsible? I think you are a whore who should have self control |
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oceanbeast
Male, 18-29, Southern US
362 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 7:56:53 AM
I love how people around here can't argue without sinking to name calling. Obviously I am aware that me tax money is already going to some form of public health care, now get this straight I don't mind helping someone who is responsible and genuinely needs and deserves help like injured workers, working mothers, veterans, senior citizens, but not my "fellow american" who abuses and rapes the system no sorry that is what ticks me off get it straight. We can't just throw money at everything like obama wants and expect it to fix itself somehow. |
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madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
1104 Posts
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Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:23:10 AM
"if we socialize medicine who will pay for all the uninsured people? not me my friend"Oceanbeast, You're too stupid to realize you're paying for the same uninsured people you don't want to pay for now. Nothing you can do about that either Dimwit. The system is broken. Complaining about fixing it because you're not willing to offer a helping hand to your fellow American makes you a douchebag too. Having been poor is no shame, but being ashamed of it, is. ~ Benjamin Franklin |
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 BoredBanana
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
26 Posts
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Tuesday, June 16, 2009 11:56:55 PM
all ur commentz were too long, did not read! lol! |
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 tdawgg71
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
13 Posts
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Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:40:11 PM
As much as I enjoy small government conservatism Ron Paul is bloody mad (by the by he secured several million in pork for his district in the "stimulus" bill) going back to the gold standard is completely unworkable (see the collapse of the Bretton woods system) although the federal reserve probably does more harm than good. There is no such thing as a "liberal libertarian". Who could possibly want to live in a society where you can do all the drugs you want and marry your cousin but in which the government runs public life? Sounds like a yearning for A Brave New WOrld to me. Government is best limited to those particular markets for what economists call " a public good", I.E. goods for which there is market failure because for obvious reasons no one would provide them. EG national defense, courts, police, to some extent highways, dams, bridges, and of course the classic example lighthouses If u enjoy economic backwardness by all means throw ur money away |
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