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 JimboH
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 601 Posts
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Monday, February 23, 2009 10:36:19 AM
I can appreciate the idea that we should only use lethal force when our lives are in danger, but to place the onus of determining if that's legally the case on the victim is unjust. |
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 nullnill
Male, 18-29, Europe
12 Posts
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Monday, February 23, 2009 4:37:49 AM
That law is wrong.
It should be such that if you are not under attack you should not be allowed under any circumstances to fire a lethal shot.
What this means is that you can prevent the burgler, like in this news piece, by shooting at his legs or something, no his chest.
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 BoomStick
Male, 30-39, Canada
122 Posts
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Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:54:16 PM
"cant we blame excessive drinking?"That's what she said. |
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 Victory7
Male, 13-17, Western US
302 Posts
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Sunday, February 22, 2009 3:26:02 PM
"I believe that you should be able to defend yourself, but only if you are in in immediate danger. Meaning you must know that the burglar intends to kill you. I mean, why do you break in? To steal not to kill."In theory, this sounds alright. But in reality, how do you honestly accomplish this? "Excuse me home invader, is your intent to kill because you are a mass murderer or high on a drug? Or to steal?" You cannot react in a stressful life or death scenario in this manner, it goes against every part of the human psyche. If someone is forcing entry into my home, they have forfeited all rights at the door and do not deserve mercy. Because that is what your suggestion is saying, that criminals deserve mercy and should be treated fairly in a life or death situation. Reality is far different from psuedo-intellectual schools of thought. |
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 DoodGuy
Male, 13-17, Western US
50 Posts
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Sunday, February 22, 2009 1:13:09 PM
Haha. Colorado FTW! I live in Pueblo |
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 steve41high
Male, 18-29, Europe
674 Posts
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Sunday, February 22, 2009 6:07:03 AM
haha typical america.
shoot someone - get away with it.
how is it legal to open fire on someone? how?!
stupid out of date laws, thats why |
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 fatbone
Male, 18-29, Europe
17 Posts
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Sunday, February 22, 2009 4:20:47 AM
I believe that you should be able to defend yourself, but only if you are in in immediate danger. Meaning you must know that the burglar intends to kill you. I mean, why do you break in? To steal not to kill. |
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 Coodude26
Male, 13-17, Eastern US
267 Posts
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Saturday, February 21, 2009 10:10:27 PM
"OMG i cant believe no charges can be laid!! The US is one crazy place!! They allow people to have guns yet do not enforce any kind of punishment for this!! I mean come on!!! Its sheer STUPIDITY this guy should be locked up for being stupid. Why didnt they just leave through the front door?? instead of KILLING him?? Over here people get thrown into jail if they attempt to hurt anyone breaking and entering. drating crazy""Oh gee, this guy is breaking into my home and might try to kill us. Maybe I should shoot him - no, best to leave and hope he doesn't notice us or try to kill us" Don't pull that "he might not be armed" BS. Better safe than dead. |
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 kristy22587
Female, 18-29, Australia
54 Posts
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Saturday, February 21, 2009 8:03:01 PM
OMG i cant believe no charges can be laid!! The US is one crazy place!! They allow people to have guns yet do not enforce any kind of punishment for this!! I mean come on!!! Its sheer STUPIDITY this guy should be locked up for being stupid. Why didnt they just leave through the front door?? instead of KILLING him?? Over here people get thrown into jail if they attempt to hurt anyone breaking and entering. drating crazy |
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Victory7
Male, 13-17, Western US
302 Posts
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Saturday, February 21, 2009 5:28:15 PM
After reading everyone's posts, I have concluded that people have no desire for their own safety or freedom, are irrevocably stupid, and that the nukes should be launched so we can start over. I've given up on Europe and the rest of the world. But mostly Europe. |
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 kairobert
Male, 13-17, Europe
1149 Posts
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Saturday, February 21, 2009 3:33:58 PM
All these people using the argument "bad guys can kill my family".Well what if the bad guys didn't have such a drating easy access to guns? Just look at European countries, only a few of their bad guys have guns because they're so hard to get.
And don't forget that you're much more likely to kill a family member with a firearm than a criminal.
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 catbarf
Male, 13-17, Eastern US
1157 Posts
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Saturday, February 21, 2009 3:07:39 PM
"My view is, if no guns were made, no one would have one, and therefore no one would get killed with one. Another bonus of this is, if we expanded it to include all weapons, to more atomic bomb threats, no more war.
Simple."Simple. And, consequently, simplistic. Right now there are people in poor countries building homemade firearms with which to fight their governments. It's not like you can prevent firearms from existing. And besides, such a happy-we-all-love-the-world approach will make you feel good, until next Thursday when the somewhat-less-happy country invades and subjugates you. Simplicity. |
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 lloyd525
Male, 13-17, Europe
98 Posts
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Saturday, February 21, 2009 12:04:13 PM
@SilverThreadIts spelt Adolf not Adolph. |
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lloyd525
Male, 13-17, Europe
98 Posts
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Saturday, February 21, 2009 12:01:09 PM
just because you use a gun in self defense doesnt mean you have to kill that person. you could just pop a cap in the knee or something. i wouldnt get up after that. and i would imagine it wouldnt be the pain it would be the thought that they would shoot again.But only the coppers have guns for protection in the UK. im safe as houses :) |
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Victory7
Male, 13-17, Western US
302 Posts
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Saturday, February 21, 2009 10:22:55 AM
@ SarahJ26:What you're saying is already common knowledge. If something is legal and in quantities, bad people will ALWAYS get them. It's a fact of life. No matter what you do, evil will always find a way to work around a set of laws it does not respect or follow. Weapons kill people, it's what they're made for. You cannot say a gun is evil no more than a carrot is a racist, it doesn't make sense. They are tools, and if a government refuses to trust it's own citizens with even basic tools, then by God it's time to revolt. |
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 MORNAF1
Male, 13-17, Eastern US
554 Posts
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Saturday, February 21, 2009 10:11:54 AM
"My view is, if no guns were made, no one would have one, and therefore no one would get killed with one. Another bonus of this is, if we expanded it to include all weapons, to more atomic bomb threats, no more war.
Simple."not so simple, tell me, which would you rather have happen? A criminal come at you with an improvised weapon, maybe a baseball bat, or a fire poker, and have to beat that criminal with whatever you can grab?
or would you rather shoot him before he can attack you or your family with his weapon? |
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 Boredx12
Female, 13-17, Europe
1661 Posts
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Saturday, February 21, 2009 7:41:44 AM
My view is, if no guns were made, no one would have one, and therefore no one would get killed with one. Another bonus of this is, if we expanded it to include all weapons, to more atomic bomb threats, no more war.
Simple.
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 TKD_Master
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
1747 Posts
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Saturday, February 21, 2009 3:20:10 AM
"You are allowed to defend your home any way possible. if that requires killing them, it is allowed. however, if you disable them and then kill them, you can be charged."oh i see, nevermind then...and i bet your buddy never tried to prank you again lmao. |
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TKD_Master
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
1747 Posts
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Saturday, February 21, 2009 3:19:23 AM
so wait...if somebody is in my house, i can 'legally' kill them? thats what they made it sound like, im sure its more complex than that...right? |
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 SarahJ86
Female, 18-29, Europe
497 Posts
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Saturday, February 21, 2009 1:10:52 AM
"If someone can not legally purchase a firearm then they wouldn't be able to purchase it through a legal channel."No they wouldn't. But then the chance of them getting their hands on any gun if they are available through legal mechanisms increases. My point is that if a gun is available legally and is manufactured in bulk (no matter how regulated) the chance of a gun going astray, or being used for murder outside of defence of the home as allowed by this law here, or the chance of guns being sold though legal means and then funding themselves on the blackmarket goes through the roof. The US proves that. Just look at gun related deaths in the US. Look at all those illegal murders which have come from guns. Look at home many of them were bought legally initially as Baalth has pointed out. Do you think this would happen if they took 99.9% of those guns out of homes or the streets?
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 digganob
Male, 30-39, Southern US
134 Posts
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Friday, February 20, 2009 10:52:09 PM
Gun Control argume-err discussion, again?I guess I'll throw in my obligatory two cents: The Right To Bear Arms in the US constitution is there to ensure that the people are capable of overthrowing the government, if it should become necessary. To maintain that the government is there to serve us, and not the other way around. Remember how we won our independence in the first place: Militia. |
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Victory7
Male, 13-17, Western US
302 Posts
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Friday, February 20, 2009 10:49:50 PM
We can debate about guns used as protectuon all we want, but it's a stupid discussion. Firearms are the modern weapons of this world, like the club, sword, and spear of ancient days. You use a gun to kill people who try to kill you. Simple, there should be no question on why you should have one for defense, it's freaking common sense. The ONLY reason we in the US have awesome gun rights is to prevent tyranny. That's it. And in order for a citizenship to exert authority over a government, they need modern weapons equivalent to the government's arsenal. You can say, "This country is perfect, tyranny couldn't possibly happen here you fool." Oh yeah? Tell that to every other civilization ever created. |
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 Baalthazaq
Male, 18-29, Asia
2594 Posts
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Friday, February 20, 2009 10:23:16 PM
Andrew:
The UK has an estimated 120'000 to 500'000 guns, which includes deactivated, reactivated, replica, legal and illegal firearms. The US has 200 million in legal alone. UK: <0.002 to <0.01 per person.
US: >0.5 per person. Long story short, the US has more. by 5000% to 25000%. If you count illegal firearms estimates for the states and no legal, you get about a quarter of that. SarahJ seems to have it right. Almost all illegal guns in the US start out by being legal guns. Of guns recovered from crime scenes in New York: 26% from Virginia,
19% in Florida,
11% in Texas,
9% in Georgia.
We have now reached 55% of the guns, and we haven't seen one manufactured at home, or smuggled in from abroad |
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 Pilanus
Male, 18-29, Western US
611 Posts
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Friday, February 20, 2009 9:46:54 PM
I love that My state's make my day law.You are allowed to defend your home any way possible. if that requires killing them, it is allowed. however, if you disable them and then kill them, you can be charged. My Mother got to taser a kid that was trying to play a prank on me. I was asleep at the time, but the kid had broken in. No charges were filed. |
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 AndrewST
Male, 18-29, Western US
183 Posts
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Friday, February 20, 2009 9:29:41 PM
SarahJ86:
"But because if something is legal, and people can acquire it legally, then theres a legitmate trade and they are easy to buy. If this is the case, the chance of a gun getting in the wrong hand, or being used in an instance when it wouldnt have been used before, goes through the roof."------------------------------------------------
Hmm...your statement couldn't be more wrong. If someone can not legally purchase a firearm then they wouldn't be able to purchase it through a legal channel. They would have to purchase it through an illegal channel, which they will do regardless. Someone who cry's "ease of access" doesn't really have a clue. History has proven time and time again, the more "Gun Control" a system has the higher the crime rate is. A perfect example in the U.S. is Washington DC. The most strict gun laws in the nation are in force, yet it has the highest crime rate. But that is just one example of MANY examples through history |
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