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Tea Party Textbook Shocks

Hits: 2412 | Rating: (3.0) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: eQuest
Page: 1 2 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Phosphoreign
Male, 30-39, Western US
 301 Posts
Monday, July 21, 2014 2:40:38 PM
I don't necessarily doubt that these books are probably fringe / right wing / etc. I do, however, always have a hard time with someone who is criticizing a book based on someone else's review, rather than citing passages from the book itself. In both cases, it seems he cites someone's quoting, or interpretation of passages in the book, yet it doesn't seem like he is actually citing either of the two books with direct quotes... seems a bit fishy to me.

whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3745 Posts
Monday, July 21, 2014 10:49:16 AM
"How is this post even vaguely related to "religion" anyhow? It's about the Tea Party!"

One of the books in question, The Five Thousand Year Leap, teaches that "without religion the government of a free people cannot be maintained." That clearly violates the separation of church & state that must be maintained in schools.

You want facts & reason, there you go. The book teaches that religion is a must for government and society to prosper, which is false and should not be taught as fact in schools.

Sleepyhallow
Male, 50-59, Western US
 1921 Posts
Monday, July 21, 2014 12:09:21 AM
An ignorant society gets the government they deserve.
Why do you think the Far Right Republicans are so keen to undermine our educational system?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26662 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 11:08:54 PM
@WhoDat: Oh I understood what you TRIED (but failed) to say. Why should I spell it out for you if you're too feeble to speak coherently? You want me to carry your water? Screw that idea.

So: NO PUBLIC SCHOOL in America EVER talks about Religion, period? Is that your claim? Because by your standards they should all be shut down if they did so.

And religious affiliated "institutions" ARE ALLOWED (says YOUR link) to open Charter Schools... just not OVERTLY religious ones.

How is this post even vaguely related to "religion" anyhow? It's about the Tea Party!

I guess you're correct @WhoDat: I'm unable to understand "liberal logic" quite the way you are! I keep letting things like 'facts' and 'reason' get in the way of blind obedience! Silly me!

whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3745 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 10:11:06 PM
@5Cats - Like I said, you clearly lack the critical thinking skills to understand what I said.

I pointed out there are 3 times more churches (FYI, that figure includes ALL houses of worship) than there are public schools. They can discuss their religion in those houses of worship but must keep them out of any school that receives public funds.

Charter schools are PUBLIC schools run by private groups and approved by the State Board of Education. While they are freed from SOME state rules, the MUST adhere to the state's accountability tests and maintain a separation of church & state.

Don't believe me? Read about it here...
Nat'l Education Association Policy on Charter Schools

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26662 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 9:07:13 PM
@WhoDat: So why compare Public Schools to Churches? Why not Synagogues or Mosques? I don't seethe connection, unless you're saying religion should ONLY be discussed in Churches and never in PRIVATE schools...

Which makes little sense either, but more sense than the way you said it.

If you polled 20 IAB members at random? I'd be shocked if 3 figured out -first try- what your point was.

This post is about Private Schools, yet you talk about everything BUT and we're supposed to "figure it out"?? Pfft!

@DerryNH: lolz! Editorializing is a dirty work to the IAB Liberal Brigade if any non-liberal ever does it.

The "Char Count" isn't accurate; depending on if you make quotes or links? It can cut off after 800 or so. 900 is usually time to post

whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3745 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 8:13:29 PM
@5Cats - "So your answer is Burn Down The Churches then?"

No, you f*cking retard, only you would come to such an asinine conclusion from my comment.

"And how many public schools VS private ones?"

I specifically said PUBLIC schools, learn to read.

My point being, there are 3 times more churches than public schools, KEEP YOUR F*CKING FAIRY TALES OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

"churches vs schools = NON-issue..."

If you had any critical thinking skills you'd be able to figure out the association as I just explained but I'll repeat it again to make it easy for you.

THERE ARE THREE (3) TIMES MORE CHURCHES THAN PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN THIS COUNTRY. KEEP YOUR F*CKING RELIGION OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

DerryNH
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 101 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 7:29:44 PM
editorializing. I tried 3 times to post with the full word at the end. It's not an IAB naughty word, is it?

DerryNH
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 101 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 7:26:55 PM
How can anyone take this video seriously? This guy even editorializes with his tone of voice. He starts the report with "Here we go again" suggesting that Arizona has a history of stupidity (they may or may not, but it has no place here). He pronounces the title "The Making of America" in a false redneck voice. I don't know what he means by "they push out the idea of a Christian nation...". If he objects to the idea that the country was founded on Judeo-Christian values, it was.
This man tries to make a point quoting from a source (Garrett Epps), who in turn is paraphrasing the book, rather than from the book itself. If you don't know what's wrong with that, turn off your computer and go make toast or something.
When the book is quoted referencing white boys envying black kids' freedom, the idea is that they envied freedom from attending school, it doesn't suggest they believed slaves were free.
This is not journalism or even good editori

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26662 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 4:27:31 PM
@eQuest: Chill dude, I'm trying to stay mellow on IAB.

Gov't 'funded' and Gov't RUN are different subjects.

SoC&S is not about "not 1 cent" to a religious organization.

My example is of other books which "contain racism" but in FACT are not racist AT ALL!
I do not know if that is the case here, no idea! But I'd bet the farm it's better to FIND OUT first before advocating it's banning (which is what you are, in fact, doing).

It may well be that this book is rife with such things and unfit for any school, but until that is demonstrated? Why "leap to conclusions"? Based on TYT? Their track record is HORRIFIC! They make Glen Beck look like freaking Einstein!!

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17310 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 4:19:11 PM
This is total crap, TYT has a long history of taking things completely out of context and twisting meanings around. This idiot has NO credibility.

eQuest
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 47 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 4:15:11 PM
You saying that I want to ban books is like me saying that you want to promote racism.

If people want to read that book in the privacy of their homes that's their right, but I sure don't want it to be taught in schools because it has content that promotes racism and a christian right view of the world that's wrong. Specially when tax payer money is being used in those classrooms.

eQuest
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 47 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 4:09:46 PM
Government money going towards a particular religion would be promoting that religion. Is that hard to understand?

eQuest
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 47 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 4:06:01 PM
@ 5cats,
Like I have said before, we can agree to disagree. It's like you live in Bizarro World. I don't know why I even bother. I think it would be easier to make a rock bleed than to make you understand that you are wrong.

This is from the website of the Arizona Department of Education:

"Created by the Arizona State Legislature in 1994, charter schools are state funded public schools. Charter schools are established to give parents academic choices for their children and provide a learning environment to improve student achievement. Charter schools contract with the state or district to provide tuition free educational services."

Most of their funding comes FROM THE STATE. FROM TAX PAYERS.

Again I say, even if 1 CENT of tax payer money is used to push a religious agenda in a school, it is WRONG.

What they are doing with those textbooks is WRONG.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26662 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 3:48:08 PM
@eQuest: I'M an "extremist"? ME?

YOU want to ban a book entirely on 2 passages? Possibly taken out of context? Because an uber-leftist bigot CLAIMS they are racist?

BAN A BOOK for 2 passages... but that's not "extreme" in your view?

Ban 'Tom Sawyer'? Ban 'Uncle Tom's Cabin'? Hummm?

BY THE WAY: Separation of Church & State means the STATE CANNOT use laws to promote OR DENY a religion. It does not mean what you seem to think it means... that ZERO Government money can "go to a religious organization" no! It's not like that at all!

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26662 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 3:40:18 PM
Lord Jim Click This! Since I suspect you've missed my point

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26662 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 3:38:57 PM
@eQuest: Jeez guy!
>Taxes are collected to educate children. School taxes. With me so far?
>Each school gets $X per child per year.
>If a child goes to a Private School (You call them Charter Schools, it's the same thing!) in some places the money the Gov't collected for THAT student is given to THAT school.

This is not "Government Funded" since it is FAR from covering 100% of the educational costs.

But it's MUCH fairer than collecting education taxes and NOT educating that child!
-Giving PARENTS freedom to CHOOSE where to educate their own children is GOOD, yes?
-DOUBLE TAXING them by refusing to send the collected funds to that school would be BAD, yes?

So a school run independently from the Government is NOT a Government-run school, even if SOME of it's funding comes from taxes!

Entirely different!

LordJim
Male, 50-59, Europe
 4915 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 3:06:20 PM
5Cats
"That's how they do things in the UK?"

Pretty much. I think we would see that as toxic and not let it come within an arm's length of anything purporting to be education. At least I would hope so.

eQuest
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 47 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 3:02:01 PM
@5Cats, answer me this, do they receive any, ANY money from the government? If they receive even 1 cent from tax payers, it is WRONG to push ANY religious agenda. Don't you get it? Or do you really don't understand why that's wrong?

Btw, I didn't said they are run by the government, I said they are FUNDED by the government, which means funded by tax payers.

I don't know about you, but I don't think that using tax payers money to fund fundamentalist christian madrasas is a good idea, not even slightly ok.

And that's just the religious part of what they are pushing into kids minds. There's no way to justify the racist stuff that they are also pushing. Or are you going to argue in favor of that too? Even if it's just 1% of the book, it's still wrong, wrong, WRONG. Please, get your extremist blindfolds off for a second and see that what they are doing in Arizona is WRONG.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 15126 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 2:56:58 PM
Yeah, because liberals NEVER push their propaganda on impressionable young students.

*Clicky-Clicky*

This is why the government should not have any role whatsoever in education.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26662 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 2:43:00 PM
@eQuest: They are PRIVATE schools which receive the funding a PUBLIC school would have gotten for the students enrolled there.

They are NOT "run by the Government" are they? No!

Same thing happens here in my Province: ANY school gets "$X" per pupil. On top of that, public schools get further funding from Tax Levies.

I know "it" from "Shinloa" bro!

My position: A private school which receives limited public funding is NOT the same as a 100% Government-run school. OK?

@Lord_Jim: OMG! ONE BAD APPLE in the basket! Better toss the whole lot out! And those other baskets we picked too!!

That's how they do things in the UK?


LordJim
Male, 50-59, Europe
 4915 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 2:14:56 PM
"Don't the rest of the VALID ideas (one presumes that there are some, yes?) justify adding it as a textbook? "

Oh dear. Only part of this meat is visbly off and rotting, the rest...I'm not sure. We'll feed it to the kids anyway.


eQuest
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 47 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 12:18:08 PM
What part of PUBLIC charter school is difficult to understand?

If you don't believe is public, google "Arizona public charter schools" and click on the first link, the Arizona Department of Education web page regarding their PUBLIC charter schools that are FUNDED BY THE GOVERNMENT. You know, with tax payer money.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26662 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 11:32:21 AM
Does every word in every textbook have to meet the "separation" clause? If so there's going to be a LOT FEWER textbooks allowed...

Sure, this book has some DUMB ideas in it, at least as quoted here. How does that equate with SoC&S? Don't the rest of the VALID ideas (one presumes that there are some, yes?) justify adding it as a textbook?

Are those "bad chapters" part of the curriculum? Lots of schools select some but not all text chapters to be included in their courses, yes?

Like I said: TYT spewing non-sense = normal.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26662 Posts
Sunday, July 20, 2014 11:27:28 AM
So a book some Tea Party members like... is suddenly THEIR "textbook"?

How logical is that!

A BOOK written by a non-Tea Party person is suddenly their DOCTRINE? As if all members must agree to every word it says?

PLENTY of books get 80% correct and 20% wrong, do you throw them all away based on a few OBVIOUS mistakes?

@WhoDat: So your answer is Burn Down The Churches then? And how many public schools VS private ones? See? That comparison might have made sense, you are just spewing garbage.

>>There's 7,800 "7-11 Stores" in the USA BUT ONLY 1,300 drug rehabilitation centers!! ZOMG! WTF! It's an OUTRAGE!!!

See? That's what you sound like... churches vs schools = NON-issue...

@eQuest: Charter Schools are funded by the Government? Indirectly Perhaps but that d

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