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New York City Shootings Up 43% [Pic+]

Hits: 2159 | Rating: (1.9) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: 5Cats
Page: 1 2 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
JoexBro
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 382 Posts
Friday, June 13, 2014 4:30:48 PM
I'm almost positive liberals would not like a stop and frisk law. Also this article coming from the nyp, quite conservative leaning

normalfreak2
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1875 Posts
Friday, June 13, 2014 12:21:40 PM
5Cats are you a racists? Just wondering.

normalfreak2
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1875 Posts
Friday, June 13, 2014 8:13:32 AM
FFS who is this 5Cats what have you done with the real one?

This is another example of where I differ with Liberals. I believe laws like this are invasive, unconstitutional. HOw does any right leaning person think laws like this are ok?

LuckyDave
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 674 Posts
Friday, June 13, 2014 3:02:45 AM
This is why we can't have nice things...

jaysingrimm
Male, 30-39, Canada
 411 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 11:02:12 PM
I'm all for tighter gun control, but I have to question the merits of a policy such as this.

Wiki says, "Based on a standard which holds less than probable cause, this power is granted on the standard of reasonable suspicion"

First off, an officer shouldn't need another policy to tell them to investigate anything reasonably suspicious...it's supposed to be their job. Should it not only be when suspicion then becomes probable cause, that a person is truly detained, subject to search or seizure?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10282 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:15:56 PM
@5Cats

That may be true, but there are plenty of minority citizens who aren't and don't want to be involved with the gangs and thus DON'T deserved to harassed by police, being stopped and frisked IS harassment. It allows cops to force their own bigotry on to them, of course it isn't apparent but it's there. Now if *I* were to believe this program were effective this reduction in murders should be placed in the broader context of the overall mortality rate. That is both should decrease and the trends should be sustained. But that alone wouldn't justify it, priorities and such.

whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3710 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 9:50:19 PM
@5Cats - Hahaha, 1.5% is f*cking horrible!

Read the Attorney General's report, 40% of the convictions they got from those arrests were for "quality of life offenses" which are things like vandalism, prostitution, drinking in public, disorderly conduct, etc. After that the majority were for things like drugs, trespassing and petty theft.

"And the POINT was to stop the "gang bangers" from running free with illegal guns."

Like I said, read the f*cking report. Only 0.1% of all stops resulted in a conviction on illegal weapons charges. That's ALL WEAPONS, not just guns. That doesn't sound like a successful policy to me.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25750 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 9:07:12 PM
@cajun247: I have NO idea if it was "fairly" implemented or what. All I've read about it is that it lowered crime, and now that it's gone crime has rocketed back up.

The REAL problem is race-based gangs. Since Liberals refuse to admit that "coloured people" MIGHT be disproportionately involved in these gangs? They seek to tar ALL citizens with the "gun violence" brush.

Really? Blame white farmers for Chicago's drive-by shootings? And apply the same confiscation laws to them?
The difference is: the white farmer will obey the law, the Chicago Gang-banger (regardless of colour) will NOT.

"Stop and Frisk" is not nice, but really? Cops can stop ANYONE they choose, make up excuses later. It's that way all over the world.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25750 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 9:01:27 PM
If ONE city with a HUGE crime problem trys various laws to reduce the problem? And it works? That's a good idea!
If (like Chicago) it fails miserably, or makes things WORSE? Then do something else.

Meanwhile? Across America there is NO EPIDEMIC of "gun violence" to speak of. WHY infringe the rights of 300+ Million LAW ABIDING citizens to "solve" the problems of a few cities with FAILED (Chicago) solutions?

I'd never suggest "stop and frisk" across the USA! That would be crazy! Almost as crazy as confiscation of legal guns, leaving the criminals armed to the teeth... almost.

@whodat: 1.5%? Sounds pretty good to me!
And the POINT was to stop the "gang bangers" from running free with illegal guns. THAT WORKED. It's hard to argue with success.

Now? Very shortly after the policy changes? SHOOTINGS UP 43%. How is that good for anyone?

skypirate
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 2072 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 5:36:47 PM
How would all these open carry patriots feel if the police treated them this way?


i dont know, but i dont think you'd get to the frisk part.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10282 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 4:47:08 PM
"simply to create BIGGER PROBLEMS!"

simply *going to create

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10282 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 4:46:27 PM
Libertarians are anarchists.

Neo-conservatives are fascists.



Conservatives are just progressives with a love-hate relationship with the concept of federalism.

If there's a severe problem? FIX IT. That may include some "tough measures" but it's better than letting crime run rampant.

As long as it's not used for selective enforcement, and it's effective, it's the price free people pay.



Look dude, now you're starting to chant the liberal mantra. This is a situation the NY State CANNOT do a reasonable or even constitutional thing to fix. If they try, they are simply to create BIGGER PROBLEMS!

Kudos to whodat for those stats.

turdburglar
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3678 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 2:19:19 PM

5cats -
I don't get it. Stop and frisk sounds like (and is) a stupid, over reaching, rights infringing, unconstitutional, left wing, feel good law that doesn't work. It treats everyone like a criminal.

Everything you are against (me too).

Why are you supporting it?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 1:38:30 PM
OldOllie

GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!!

CaptKangaroo
Male, 50-59, Southern US
 2075 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 1:01:05 PM
whodat6484- with facts and commonsense... Again.

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3399 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 12:53:18 PM
Nice to see you too, Ollie.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14411 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 11:48:33 AM
I can no longer feel sorry for people who vote for these left-wing f***tards, nor do I give a loose dry f*** for people who continue to live in these socialist $#!+holes.

normalfreak2
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1875 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:47:20 AM
FP you've summed up right wing logic pretty well. It isn't logical.

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3399 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:40:29 AM
Here's the problem I'm having:

Gun control is unfairly restrictive and unconstitutional.
Stop and frisk to find weapons is necessary and not an overreach.

Do you not see this as contradictory logic?

whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3710 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:39:17 AM
The stop & frisk policy was pretty much a failure.

Here are some numbers for you courtesy of the NY Attorney General:

- Less than 1.5% of all stops resulted in jail time.

- 0.1% led to a violent crime conviction

- 0.1% led to a possession of illegal weapons conviction

How can you support limited/small gov't and at the same time support a policy that gives police almost unlimited power?

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3399 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:30:25 AM
"If there's a severe problem? FIX IT. That may include some "tough measures" but it's better than letting crime run rampant."

See, I don't get this. Isn't this the same argument used for gun control?

"As long as it's not used for selective enforcement"

But it is.

Torq
Male, 40-49, Western US
 363 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:21:14 AM
Good thing they have those tight gun laws in NYC.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25750 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 9:49:40 AM
@Andrew155: HAD a low murder rate, it will go "back to normal" soon enough!

@FollsPrussia: If there's a severe problem? FIX IT. That may include some "tough measures" but it's better than letting crime run rampant.

As long as it's not used for selective enforcement, and it's effective, it's the price free people pay.
>>Y'ALL are big on passing "new laws" but never enforcing them! WE'VE been saying all along: enforce existing laws!

"Open Carry" people are REGULARLY stopped and searched, why even bring that up? It's entirely different from criminals with illegal guns.

@hg:

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 8:57:46 AM
Andrew155

"Are people on the right Anarchists or Fascists? You guys can never get that straight."

Libertarians are anarchists.

Neo-conservatives are fascists.

They just happen to join sides because the most important thing to both of them is that rich people don't pay high taxes.

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3399 Posts
Thursday, June 12, 2014 8:57:34 AM
How would all these open carry patriots feel if the police treated them this way?

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