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Collapse Inevitable In Unequal Society [Pic+]

Hits: 4348 | Rating: (2.7) | Category: Community & Lifestyle | Added by: drawman61
Page: 1 2    Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1711 Posts
Friday, March 21, 2014 8:18:18 AM
@Musuko42: "So...I dunno. I'm thinking out loud here...Is there a recognised actual "thing" of this?'

As far as I can tell you're describing economic Utilitarianism. Most web-sites depict it as the level of "usefulness," Yet a Util is a measurement of satisfaction in general.

To give an example, say you want a candy bar, so lets assign it a util value of 5. But then I offer you another candy bar right after you finish the first one. You want it but not quite as bad as the first one, so lets say 4 to make it easy. Well I just keep giving you another and another candy bar after you finish the one previous until eventually you don't want a candy bar anymore, so the util value would be 0, it may even make you feel sick to think about eating another so it would be like -1. This is a microeconomic example

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Friday, March 21, 2014 7:51:13 AM
So...I dunno. I'm thinking out loud here.

Maybe my analogy would have been better with food. If you're starving, by hell you're going to resent and envy a man eating a cheap burger. But if you're the man eating the cheap burger, you're not going to be anywhere near as upset that someone else is eating lobster.

I'm struggling to express this idea. Is there a recognised actual "thing" of this? It's got to be a theory somewhere with a nice interesting Wikipedia article about it.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Friday, March 21, 2014 7:46:13 AM
Regards income inequality:

Speaking only from my own view, I feel thusly: as long as I am not struggling, I don't mind someone else having more than me.

If this is a common view, perhaps there is a "floor" of wealth level, beneath which a person's resentment builds for those above, and above which they're more content. I imagine the poverty line acts as that floor.

And you can kinda see how it'd make sense. With cars as an example:

Bob can't afford a car.
Bill has a £1000 car.
Brian has a £50,000 car.

In raw figures, you could think that Bill would resent Brian more than Bob resents Bill, as the gap in wealth is greater. But I would say that Bob's resentment would be higher, because he's excluded from the car world completely. Bill's car might not be luxury, but it sure beats walking.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Friday, March 21, 2014 7:36:56 AM
We want capitalism to give us the chance to succeed, and we want socialism to catch us if we fail.

Not a bad arrangement, really, when done in the right balance.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4449 Posts
Friday, March 21, 2014 6:49:24 AM
normalfreak2:
"I don't believe the moderates want Socialism. In my opinion I think people believe Capitalism is flawed. We like Capitalism we just want it to be a bit moral. To factor in people. Why can't the system be changed any? I refuse to believe we can't "fix" Capitalism and make it better."
-------

This.

normalfreak2
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1311 Posts
Friday, March 21, 2014 4:47:26 AM
I don't believe the moderates want Socialism. In my opinion I think people believe Capitalism is flawed. We like Capitalism we just want it to be a bit moral. To factor in people. Why can't the system be changed any? I refuse to believe we can't "fix" Capitalism and make it better.

toeachhisown
Male, 50-59, Western US
 243 Posts
Friday, March 21, 2014 1:12:28 AM
Communism will save us!!

Sleepyhallow
Male, 50-59, Western US
 1403 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 11:30:36 PM
I've been saying this for years, the greed of the obscenely wealthy will lead to the destruction of our nation.
When they are willing to walk over the bodies of those who are the victims of their greed, there is nothing that will save us.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 12850 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 11:07:35 PM
Well, at least they managed to prove why our space program has turned to $#!+. "Well, we don't have a manned space program anymore, and we have to suck Russian dick to get a ride to the ISS, but at least we have Global Warming fraud and Muslin outreach...oh, yeah, and this Marxist bull$#!+!

paperduck
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1656 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 9:26:46 PM
Yeah, this is about as reliable as a weather simulator

RytWing
Male, 30-39, Western US
 314 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 9:00:56 PM

The equal society is a myth. To use the deer analogy, either all the deer die or all the wolves die to make everyone equal. Does that sound natural?
It seems the analogy is flawed. If either side dies out the other will eventually follow.

chicagojay
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 1763 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 8:09:06 PM
Can you give me some examples of "Equal Societies" that have not collapsed?

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1711 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 5:51:04 PM
Even if you make only make $7.55 per hour in the US, where the Gini coefficient 0.801, you're still part of the top 8.66% of the world. Look at Ghana they have a lower Gini coefficient of 0.692 and the average pay is 8 cents an hour, why not move there if you feel so strongly about the Gini coefficient.



richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1711 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 5:50:40 PM
@OverTime:
Maybe it is you who needs to reread what they said.

Andrew155 said "everyone confuses wealth and income inequality...Wealth inequality is more important."

Then you cite the Gini coefficient which is based on income inequality not wealth inequality, completely missing what he said. Having a high Gini coefficient isn't bad at all. Having a lower score means that your closer to a communist country, a market where everyone is paid the same, and any economic textbook you pick up will tell you it kills the incentive.

All the Gini coefficient tells you is the gap between the highest incomes to the lowest incomes in that particular country. It doesn't show economic strength, size, poverty level, GDP, living conditions, or anything else frankly.

747Pilot
Male, 18-29, Canada
 816 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 5:06:25 PM
This has been known for quite some time.

normalfreak2
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1311 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 4:26:58 PM
Interesting article.

OverTime
Male, 40-49, Western US
 95 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 4:26:49 PM
AvatarJohn, I would love to see your sources because it just sounds like your typical Fox News bullpoo. All the studies I've seen seem to suggest the exact opposite of what your saying.

Andrew155, who is confusing wealth with inequality? Check that link you posted. It shows the U.S. has a higher Gini coefficient than just about every other country.

You both may want to educate yourselves on the actual effects of income inequality on the social issues you care about rather than regurgitating conservative talking points.

drawman61
Male, 50-59, Europe
 5096 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:29:44 PM
I like the wolf/deer analogy they use. What we seem to forget with our tech is that we are still an animal governed by natures laws. We are getting more and more top heavy as a society and toppling over is inevitable. Unfortunately, those at the top are least likely to listen and act whilst the rest of us suffer the consequencies.
It's like the guy in the earlier post taking it upon himself to go and make the bomb victim new arms. There are people in the world so rich they can't even count what they have. Then there are people like this with no medicines or even FOOD for gods sake. In the 21st century! What kind of species are we?

madduck
Female, 50-59, Europe
 5180 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:05:36 PM
Equality though means that most of us have to take a dive- we are very rich on a global scale. We could also do with not making a mess of our living quarters.. another thing the rich ( that would be us) are not keen on doing..

AvatarJohn
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 938 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:05:05 PM
It's more likely we'll collapse because we waste money on bullpoo like this. What the hell is NASA doing funding this crazy horsesh-t?

Income/wealth inequality is nothing. It's inevitable, and, frankly, a sign of a thriving economy. It's opportunity inequality that's a problem. We used to have opportunity equality until the moochers, looters, and businesses with "a guy in Washington" took over. The Hank Reardon's who use their minds to create wealth have no hope when "income equality" (AKA legalized theft) becomes the goal of in increasingly immoral society.

Andrew155
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2564 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 12:54:47 PM
By the way, everyone confuses wealth and income inequality. They are completely different, stop confusing them. Wealth inequality is more important, and Denmark is more unequal than the United States by a measure of wealth. Here is a easy to read version.

Andrew155
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2564 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 12:53:39 PM
This explains it better, I think.

It's funny though. We're living in an age the The Economist dubbed "Towards the End of Poverty", but supposedly it's the most dreadful time ever. Go live before 50 years ago, it would suck everywhere. Once poverty is no longer absolute, then it becomes intolerable - Max Hastings, a brilliant British historian. If they really want go cause another 1917 and kill millions of people, be my guest.

madduck
Female, 50-59, Europe
 5180 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 12:45:46 PM
Will 'we' act- we we heck. Sad though... people will just ignore it, swear blind it is all a con and just carry on into oblivion taking a very big gamble indeed..

drawman61
Male, 50-59, Europe
 5096 Posts
Thursday, March 20, 2014 11:09:28 AM
Link: Collapse Inevitable In Unequal Society [Pic+] [Rate Link] - Scientists explain why we're heading the way of Romans, Mayans etc

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