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10 Reasons To Ban Gay Marriage [Pic]

Hits: 7837 | Rating: (2.8) | Category: Community & Lifestyle | Added by: iansquall
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
piratefish
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 654 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 3:32:58 PM
@MeGrendel:

"You're recongnition of what constitutes 'logic' is as flawed as his logic."

Really? You might want to look up syllogism in the dictionary. By very definition, chalket used a formal, deductive argument that is one of the most fundamental aspects of logic. It is usually one of the first things taught in a introductory logic course at most universities.

Logic is not a subjective term, but a very definite, objectively defined discipline.

piratefish
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 654 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 3:29:07 PM
@HumanAction:

First, let me apologize for coming across so strongly; it is a trait of mine that I need to work on. Your opinions are just as important as mine.

To elaborate on what I am saying is kind of simple. My view is that a right is a natural right; it exists by virtue of birth and is (in the words of our forefathers) inalienable. I believe certain rights exist irrespective of the current government's willingness to recognize or protect those natural rights. In my view, rights come from nature itself, and not the rule and whim of a minority of bigots who happen to be in control at a given time.

In other words, we all have natural rights, which would include the right to pair with one another as we see fit. Then we have rights as recognized or protected by our governments. However, the latter do not diminish the former in any way. In fact, they are inferior to, and predicated upon the former (or at least, should be).

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 3:19:16 PM
@MeGrendel

Actually, that answer is incorrect.

... how so?

Currently, some marriage laws are written in a manner that exclude homosexual couples. Therefore, homosexual couples governed by those laws cannot obtain marriage.

Perhaps I'm missing something but I do not see how that is different from my statement:

"Is marriage currently denied to some people as a result of their sexual orientation? (Answer: Yes)"

whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3609 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 3:18:39 PM
@MeGrendel - Because I enjoy f*cking with adults who believe in fairy tales and jump at any chance I get to do so, looks like it worked.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4322 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 3:14:52 PM
HumanAction-Is marriage currently denied to some people as a result of their sexual orientation? (Answer: Yes)

Actually, that answer is incorrect.

Every consenting adult, even homosexuals, can get married, as long as it meets the legal definition of marriage. (what, are you saying people marry someone other than their love? for reasons other than love?)

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4322 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 3:09:40 PM
Piratefish-find any reasonable person in the U.S. in 2014 who could effectively argue that, in our modern society, marriage is not a right

It does not matter what people argue, it matters what is the law. I think you're overestimating those who agree with you (of course, you threw in the disclaimer of 'reasonable', which to you means 'anyone who agrees with me is 'reasonable'. anyone who doesn't agree with me is 'unreasonable'.')

piratefish-
I doubt there is a court in this land that would deny a marriage certificate to almost any heterosexual couple

If a couple meets the requirements to legally marry, they would not. (Not that many couples are required to take it to court). If, on the other hand, they do not, they will.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 3:08:37 PM
@piratefish

Hey, here's another one!

In your opinion, if something is a right, do you first need to seek a license from an authorized body to obtain it? (Answer: No)

Do you currently need to acquire a license from an authorized body to become married? (Answer: Yes)

Therefore, can we conclude that marriage is not a right? (Answer: Yes)

Hey, thanks for playing.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 3:06:38 PM
@piratefish

Let's do this the easy way.

In your opinion, if something is a right, can it legally be denied to you as a result of your sexual orientation? (Answer: No)

In your opinion, if something is a privilege, can it legally be denied to you as a result of your sexual orientation? (Answer: Yes)

Is marriage currently denied to some people as a result of their sexual orientation? (Answer: Yes)

Therefore, do you conclude that currently, marriage is not a right? (Answer: Yes)

You know what? You're right; syllogisms are fun.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4322 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 3:05:10 PM
@whodat
Why do you keep bringing religion up when none of us are arguing based on religion? Strawman perhamps?

Piratefish-
someone who appears to have actually had a logic course in college.

You're recongnition of what constitutes 'logic' is as flawed as his logic.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 3:02:19 PM
@piratefish

That is the most flawed logic I have ever seen.

Well if you say so, then it must clearly be so.

It is the same as claiming that the human rights of blacks weren't being violated while they were slaves or during segregation, before we recognized their natural rights as human beings.

Can you expand on how you've reached this conclusion?

In my case, I imply that a right only exists if it cannot be denied and is freely available. Marriage does not fit this criteria.

Perhaps your definition of a right is something like this:

"That which can be denied to people as a result of their sexual orientation."

Please advise.



piratefish
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 654 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 2:56:00 PM
@Human Action:

"If marriage were currently a right, then it could not be denied due to a persons sexual orientation."

That is the most flawed logic I have ever seen. It is the same as claiming that the human rights of blacks weren't being violated while they were slaves or during segregation, before we recognized their natural rights as human beings.

Seriously? That is an argument? Rights don't exist until they're granted by the bigots in power? Good thing our forefathers didn't feel the same way.

piratefish
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 654 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 2:51:27 PM
@chalket:

YES! I love it! Finally someone who appears to have actually had a logic course in college. A simple syllogism, but perfect. The only thing you forgot was the QED at the end.

@MeGrendel

Your argument is flawed as it mostly relies on outdated ideas and/or ideas from other societies. I doubt you will find any reasonable person in the U.S. in 2014 who could effectively argue that, in our modern society, marriage is not a right. I doubt there is a court in this land that would deny a marriage certificate to almost any heterosexual couple (at least not in the vast majority of modern U.S. counties).

And the Constitution does guarantee each of us the right to "the pursuit of happiness". If marriage is not part of that pursuit, please tell me what else qualifies?


whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3609 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 2:51:16 PM


piratefish
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 654 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 2:40:03 PM
Even as flawless as these arguments are, they will still fall on the deaf ears of the ignorant.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 2:39:02 PM
@chalket

Is marriage a right? Yes.

If marriage were currently a right, then it could not be denied due to a persons sexual orientation. Since we are having this discussion, we can clearly see that marriage is, in fact, a privilege offered by the government so long as you follow their rules.

The simple fact that you cannot enter an official marriage without going through a 3rd party (in this case, government) demonstrates that it is not a right.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4322 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 2:36:58 PM
chalket-Are gays human? Yes.

Yes. No one's stating otherwise.

chalket-
Is marriage a right? Yes.

There's actually two issues there:
Is marriage a right? That's debatable. It's not a 'constitutional' right. Many debate that it's not a human right. Many recognize it as a civil institution societies have recognized and used as the best way to legitimize raising children and for political connections (latter part not relevent here).
Also, based on the historical definition, 'marriage' is between a man and a woman. So, legally, in most places a same-sex union does not constitue a 'marriage'.

chalket-
Therefore gay + marriage = human + right.

Sorry, if half of your equation if wrong, all of it is wrong.

chalket
Male, 50-59, Southern US
 2481 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 2:25:31 PM
@MeG"always on the wrong side"rendel

Are gays human? Yes.
Is marriage a right? Yes.
Therefore gay + marriage = human + right.

Ergo, "if you are opposed to gay marriage you are opposed to human rights" is a factual statement, not an opinion. I find it somewhat amusing that you could see it otherwise.

TheZigRat
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 1643 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 2:14:36 PM
I actually heard a reverend say "If Gay couples are allowed to marry, They will bare and raise gay children and soon out number normal people." Which is scientifically impossible without cloning.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4322 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 2:10:25 PM
patchouly-Tolerance for people against human rights?

Sorry, the 'against human rights' is opinion, not fact.

BuckeyeJoe-
The same arguments used by religion against same sex marriage are the exact ones used during civil rights

Okay, but I don't argue religion. Nor am I arguing gay marriage. I'm arguing that his statement that anti-gay marriage = against human right is an opinion, not a fact.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13217 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 2:06:36 PM
So McGovern are you anti-gay marriage or are you just picking on Patchouly?


Not anti gay marriage I'm anti hypocrite but I wouldn't call for the execution of him imagine that! Kind of a violation of human rights......

Rodin
Male, 30-39, Canada
 535 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 2:00:56 PM
So McGovern are you anti-gay marriage or are you just picking on Patchouly?

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13217 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 1:40:20 PM
TheZigRat - That's easy.
Take half of everything from each man, and give it all to a lesbian couple.



Hmmm and if it's a lesbian couple vice versa?

BuckeyeJoe
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 26 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 1:39:48 PM
@MeGrendel

Sadly, patchouly's statement is not an opinion. The same arguments used by religion against same sex marriage are the exact ones used during civil rights and during women's suffrage. Not close...but the SAME, I'm talking verbatim -- same passages in the Bible, same old rhetoric.

We are tired of this song and dance, and are quickly waking up to how oppressive and immoral these ideals are. We do not tolerate bigotry, oppression, or sexism, no matter what nonsensical "be tolerant of our religion" argument is used.

turdburglar
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3403 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 1:30:48 PM

Cmon guys! Don't pick on NickelBack.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4528 Posts
Friday, March 14, 2014 1:28:57 PM
McGovern1981:
"So you're pro gun now!?!?!?!?"
-----
To some degree, I have always been.

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