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Alive Or Dead? [Pic]

Hits: 8073 | Rating: (3.4) | Category: Community & Lifestyle | Added by: Olragix
Page: 13 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25762 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:53:53 PM
@turdburglar: After the 4th cell division? The embryo no longer "borrows" DNA material from the mother (host).
So: Before 4 divisions? Requires the mother's DNA.
After 4? Has UNIQUE DNA.

To me? That is what makes it a separate human being. DNA isn't arbitrary, like "breathing" or heartbeats. It's easily verifiable, scientifically provable.

So VERY early on? It's separate from the host (mother) and entirely a separate human being.

I've yet to see any evidence to contradict this, and ALL of the pro-abortion position falls to pieces in light of this position.

I'd also like to point out that there's a "post-partum abortion" position which says mothers can abort their "fetus" after it is born. Because it's still dependant on the mother for life, up until it's 1 or 2 years old, what difference does it make? Same as a fetus, right?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25762 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:37:59 PM
@AGit: How do you suppose abortions happen? Fairies? Magic? Or groups of people gathering to cause a miscarriage?
The POINT is that it's "life for a life" OK? Not like slaves (which are property) or bulls (also property) but HUMAN BEINGS. Life = life. Read the whole thing in context before further making a fool of yourself.

@Neoptolemos: I "have to leave" eh? How about... no. How about addressing the issues at hand? Or making sense? Too hard for you? Sad.

@BuckEyeJoe: I myself am the child of a 16 year old girl. I was given up for adoption in 1963. Ok?

Comparing abortion and adoption is 99.9% bullship. Why don't you ask the LIBERALS if they'd adopt all those aborted children? No? You only expect ONE side of the issue to fix things? Why exactly is that?

@broizfam: Yes, my point is that "legal times" for abortion are ENTIRELY arbitrary! 24 weeks here, 34 weeks there, why? Who knows!

emmettyville
Female, 40-49, Australia
 4267 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:31:01 PM
any excuse to rip babies out of wombs.....it's not like at some point after conception you are suddenly alive and human, you are right from the start.

turdburglar
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3678 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 10:53:14 PM

Gerry - I still think you are confusing the issue. Just because it can become life doesn't mean it is.

Let me leave with one question.
Is you belief that a couple cells = human life based on common sense, or is it just convenient for you. As a guy it's easy to say. As a gay or religious man it's even more convenient.

Remember, this isn't just about your personal religion or morality. It's about legislation that affects others who don't have the same view, but still have rights. It isn't about woman's rights. It is about human life. Not potential life. The living have rights that supersede those not alive...

Both sides are extremes. Life at conception or life at birth. I don't mean to offend. From my POV, it seems obvious that the answer is between the two extremes.

I've said my piece, so I'll shut up now. Sorry for the rant IAB.


Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 10:22:57 PM

I'm with Crakr. It's a live baby. It's obviously alive. You know it is. At the very least you know, if allowed to grow, it will become a teenager and despite their uncivilized behavior they are people.

turdburglar
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3678 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:57:50 PM

Crakr - I'm not sure if first heartbeat is as clear as you make it to be. You are deciding based from religion, which has no place in law making for everyone.

2 heart cells placed next to each other will synchronize into 1 heartbeat whether in the womb or a petri dish. In the womb "heartbeat" can be as little as 18 days from implantation.

Without religion, it's hard to consider 2 cells to be a human life. If 2 cells is the qualification, that brings us right back to a egg and sperm...2 cells and conception.

turdburglar
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3678 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:44:31 PM

Gauddith - The vast majority of people are ok with abortion if the mothers life is at stake. Many are also ok with it when rape is the case. Besides, there is "plan B" for women who have been raped.

Call me an ass, and I am sure you will, but this is not about WOMAN'S RIGHTS. It's about HUMAN RIGHTS.

A woman's right to convenience is completely outweighed by a humans right to life. That is why the question of when life begins is important.

Before life begins, do what you want, just like every other decision you have a right to make.
After life begins, no amount of women's rights makes murder of a live baby for convenience o.k.

(except for those extreme situations you spoke of.)

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17180 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:44:26 PM
"Clearly it's more than just a cluster of cells."

Couldn't agree more. And that's what my Christian faith and life experience tells me.

However, compromise has to be made and "first heartbeat" seems to be the most logical point without bringing religion into it.

We can't keep throwing away our future just because some believe it's a inconvenience. That just disgusts me to no end. We could be throwing away the next Edison, Newton, Yeager, Salk, Carver or Nobel.

axeman929
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 191 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:39:18 PM
I don't think this is right. I know the tech definition of death. But how often do they check for brain activity when deciding someone is dead. Almost never.

turdburglar
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3678 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:33:48 PM

747 - A fungal spore has the ability to divide and multiply.
Look, I hate the idea of abortions for convenience. As a lazy form of birth control, or a easy fix for bad decisions...but a "clump of cells" is not alive. It is not human. Just because it can become, doesn't mean it is.

There are legitimate reasons for early term abortions. We have no way to legislate whether someone is worthy. (The NSA may be working on that)

So the question becomes "when has life started". It's not a hard question to figure out. We have a clear, scientific definition.

If your answer is "at conception" you aren't thinking logically. You are thinking emotionally.

Some people decide abortion for convenience. I don't disagree.
You say life begins at conception because it's convenient for YOU. Don't be lazy. Don't be influenced by religion either.

This isn't as complicated as the extreme left and right make it.

Gauddith
Female, 18-29, Western US
 226 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:31:46 PM
This whole thread is why women don't want men making the decisions for what the hell we do with our bodies.

Here is the deal, if I have a male in my life who is willing to help with, or take the baby, (depending on circumstance) then I will keep that child. UNLESS the child is a product of a rape.

"Yeah, sorry timmy, you're a rape baby, I never wanted you and now I have to feed you and cloth you at the expense of the government. Sorry lil guy."

And if that child is going to kill me on the way out, no, not at all. These are the things many men seem to ignore. These are the things that do concern ME. I don't take abortion lightly, but I also don't take SCREWING UP a child, my own death or having a daily reminder of a time some non-nice individual ruined my life lightly either.

747Pilot
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1059 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:33:51 PM
abortion is a side effect of deep rooted problems in this world.

About the response though, where they used 'regular' when they wrote "fetuses do not have 'regular' brain activity until 25 weeks". The problem is the poster is biased, like how 'normal' is different today than it was 100 years ago. The default position should be that life begins at the time of conception. But sadly, some people feel it's an inconvenient position, and they decide it's really only a cluster of cells, in order to end that life for convenience. If it really were just a cluster of cells, it wouldn't multiply. Clearly it's more than just a cluster of cells.

turdburglar
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3678 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 7:48:26 PM

"If we don't iron out, very soon, the line between a living human being and a "cluster of cells", we are going to be facing a legal dilemma."

There is no disagreeing with that statement. It's a pretty easy question to answer with science.

The problems are simple too:
On the right...religion.
On the left.... so called "woman's rights".

It's only a matter of woman's rights while it's a "cluster of cells", after that, the right to life outweighs a woman's convenience.

As for religion, it's simple. Religion has no business in politics and law making.

It isn't hard to determine the approximate time when life starts, if you leave your religion or ridiculous notion of women's rights out of it.

The idea of artificial womb's is a completely different subject altogether.

Magentab0b
Female, 30-39, Western US
 1462 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 7:29:30 PM
24 weeks! Cause that's usually when uninduced miscarriages stop.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17180 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 7:13:22 PM
broizfam: Meanwhile neonatal science has already made an artificial womb and tested it on sheep embryos. Link

If we don't iron out, very soon, the line between a living human being and a "cluster of cells", we are going to be facing a legal dilemma.

Does a woman's "rights" extend to an extra-uterine embryo? What about a man's rights in that instance? We are not legally or ethically prepared, at all, for this. Mostly because the left has screamed feminist rhetoric like, "Hands off my body".

When it's no longer in your body, ladies, what rhetoric will you scream then? What will you say when a man has one of his wife eggs fertilized and incubated in an artificial womb, without her approval?

broizfam
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 3513 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:37:31 PM
@5Cats,
Where I am the legal limit is 24 weeks gestation. That's 16 weeks shy of the due date. Not judging anything, here. Just informing.

@CrakrJak,
I agree with you at least with respect to a heartbeat defining an embryo as living. The issue is actually viability. That is the ability to live outside the womb without drastic measures and low probability of a live, healthy infant despite those measures. Again, no judging. Just informing.

ForSquirel
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1679 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:36:17 PM
I pronounce people dead all the time.

I also am smart enough to know that at the time of conception there isn't a life. It's just a cluster of cells.

turdburglar
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3678 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:29:42 PM

This thread is absolutely brain dead and should be aborted.

soundman655
Male, 50-59, Canada
 1496 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:24:45 PM
gimme a break! IT AIN"t YOUR CHOICE ! If it was we would still have the death penalty !

paddy215
Male, 18-29, Europe
 1674 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:08:32 PM
"Many of the cells within the body and brain are still alive for hours after a patient is pronounced dead."

Maybe the uppity twat that wrote that reply should take their own advice and "do actual research".

Andrew155
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2564 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:50:35 PM
This post is just a bunch of stupidity. Somebody scoured the internet for a pro-life post they think is stupid, somebody spends all night crafting a clever response, and then it gets to circulate the inter webs. SO CLEVER.

Most people are never fully one way or the other, so the debate is even further made stupid. Like I've said, even Europe has stricter laws than us. Their laws would be considered KKK laws here.

Also, regardless of your position, babies are not just a woman's job. Leftists want us to think this, apparently (why is beyond me). Men have a responsibility to raise them. It's like you guys are just absolving a whole gender of all babily obligations. That's wrong, they have 18 years of obligations. They are relevant. It's no wonder fathers are delinquent these days. Nothing is expected of them.

Andrew155
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2564 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:44:36 PM
SmugMan - It's funny, because suddenly your crew gets all "anti-regulation" on abortion. Yes, you do.

My favorite thing about the abortion debate is how much stricter European abortion laws are. Seriously, they're way stricter.

SmagBoy1
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4243 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:28:25 PM
We're all for small, regulation-free government--well, except where it deals with what happens between a woman's legs. And with gay people. Then, you know, we need a great deal of regulation. Because hell in a hand basket and all of that jazz.

AGit
Male, 30-39, Europe
 953 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:19:03 PM
@TruTenrMan, hence the word "potential" ¬¬

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17180 Posts
Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:15:25 PM
Without the heart beating there is no brain activity. There are many people without brain activity, whose hearts are still beating, most of them are democrats.

So to surmise, if a person's heart stops beating for 6 minutes, they are dead. The reverse should be true as well, if their heart has been beating for at least 6 minutes they are alive, period.

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