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Atheist Vs Christian [Pic]

Hits: 8227 | Rating: (2.5) | Category: Community & Lifestyle | Added by: Sweepofdeath
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
broizfam
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 3513 Posts
Monday, January 20, 2014 8:10:13 PM
@Angilion,
Sorry. I think you misread my comment. I was refuting a comment that atheists don't believe in anything by saying we believe in things, just not gods. I wasn't saying it's a *form* of belief. I finished the response with
"If you think a lack of belief in a god equates to a lack of belief in anything at all your view of the world is severely limited and dysfunctional." I was just trying to say that belief in God isn't a requirement for belief in all the rest of the universe.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Monday, January 20, 2014 6:09:33 PM
Better?


Yes.

It's completely different to your orginal comment, in which you stated that atheism is a form of belief and said that anyone who thinks it isn't has a severely limited and dysfunctional view of the world.

liabach
Male, 40-49, Western US
 1300 Posts
Sunday, January 19, 2014 4:15:59 PM
wow, i have to reread Gore Vidals books to search for secret Christian backward masking.

broizfam
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 3513 Posts
Sunday, January 19, 2014 3:10:12 PM
Where did I go wrong?! (sniff)

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4598 Posts
Sunday, January 19, 2014 10:38:16 AM
Seems that both broizfam and Angilion are on the same page. Just a misunderstanding.

broizfam
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 3513 Posts
Sunday, January 19, 2014 10:30:47 AM
Angilion,
I think I may not have been clear in my comment and it's causing confusion. I don't mean that "Atheists" have "Beliefs". What I mean is that people who are atheists believe, individually, in whatever they want to believe, just not gods. There was no intent to imply that atheists, as a whole, are, in any sense, a cohesive group on anything more than that one issue.
Better?

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Sunday, January 19, 2014 9:18:33 AM
Not sure if you're saying I was wrong ("we believe in things..."), or the comment I was responding to.


You. That's why I quoted both the comment and your reply and wrote "They're right. You're wrong."

Atheism is not a belief in anything. You are wrong to say that it is.

Atheism is a lack of belief in any gods. It is nothing else. Individual atheists might or might not believe in other things, BUT THOSE OTHER THINGS ARE NOT ATHEISM.

Some atheists play tennis. Do you think that tennis is atheism?

Some atheists are left-handed. Do you think that being left-handed is atheism?

Some atheists are Swedish. Do you think that being Swedish is atheism?

I can't be clearer than that. I am belabouring the point to the extent that it's becoming quite silly.

broizfam
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 3513 Posts
Sunday, January 19, 2014 7:31:13 AM
@patchouly,
That was beautifully well said!

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4598 Posts
Sunday, January 19, 2014 7:22:23 AM
Angilion:
"Christians often go against their own book of orders *because* it's utterly amoral and they're trying to apply some morality (e.g. not murdering children for not being obedient enough)."
-----

This is one of the best arguments I've heard. If God and the Bible tells you it's okay to stone your children for being disobedient (as an example), then what made us rise above that? Where did that additional morality come from? Clearly the additional morality is something we have created ourselves. It is a self applied morality that goes beyond God or religion; and if we are capable of that, we are capable of morality without God.

broizfam
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 3513 Posts
Sunday, January 19, 2014 5:42:20 AM
Angilion,
Not sure if you're saying I was wrong ("we believe in things..."), or the comment I was responding to. What I was saying is that the one thing atheists, as a general group, don't believe in is god(s). We don't necessarily disbelieve everything exists, as a nihilist might. We may well have different beliefs, too. ie: I believe the sun, moon, stars, and this thread exists. I believe it is wrong to hurt others except in self defence. I believe it is right to help others in need when we can. So I believe in existence and have at least some moral code. Others may feel somewhat differently, of course. Atheists believe in things, then. Just not a god or gods. When the writer indicated his apparent belief that atheists have no belief in ANYTHING, he was wrong. When you state that atheism is a lack of belief in gods you're actually quoting me. You're comment that that's ALL that atheism means is exactly my point.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Sunday, January 19, 2014 3:53:34 AM
"nope, wrong when it asserts atheism is a form of belief in anything."

Wrong. We believe in things. We DON'T believe in god(s).



They're right. You're wrong.

Atheists might believe in things. But that's not what atheism is. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. Various atheists will think or do various other things, of course, but those other things are not atheism just because an atheist does them.

An atheist might, for example, believe that aliens visit Earth and make secret agreements with your government. That wouldn't make that belief atheism.

An atheist might play tennis. That wouldn't make tennis atheism.

An atheist might drink coffee with sugar in it. That wouldn't make drinking coffee with sugar in it atheism.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Sunday, January 19, 2014 3:46:18 AM
When I think about it, the convenience of atheism is that I can do anything I want to other humans and I need not suffer long-term consequences. The lack of a divine purpose makes humans no more valuable than the mosquito I swat or the blade of grass I tread upon.

It really is liberating, isn't it? What brand shall I place on human cattle?



That has some relevance for bona fide megalomaniac sociopaths who get their jollies from power over and abuse of others and who can only be kept in check by fear.

Are you seriously arguing that you are like that and, by extension, that all theists are like that?

You've just argued exactly that, but did you meant to do so?

It would still be a foolish argument anyway, as religion is clearly a far superior choice for megalomaniac sociopaths who get their jollies from power over and abuse of others.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Sunday, January 19, 2014 3:40:43 AM
I'm atheist and I don't agree with this. If people need to believe in something then fair enough. They're not wrong or stupid, they just believe different things.


If religion was a purely personal matter that had no effect on society, you'd have a point.

But it isn't.

Consider, for example, someone believes that it's everyone's duty to preserve the purity of what they believe is the master race and ensure that the master race organisations dominate every aspect of life and impose the approved orders on everyone. There are people who believe that.

Random beliefs in things made up to acquire and impose power are not harmless. Claiming absolute authority for the orders (as any monotheist must do) makes it worse, not better.

It could also be argued that training people to think it's a *good* thing to mindlessly accept things as true without any evidence is also harmful, even if the things themselves are not.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Sunday, January 19, 2014 3:32:05 AM
There is a HUGE difference in the "morality" of christians vs atheists. And atheists come out on the moral side every time because they don't choose your morality for you.


Yes, they do. That's what the law is, essentially - imposed morality.

I say you can do what you want.


I bet you don't actually mean that. If you did, you would want all laws repealed. *All* of them, because every law is a statement that people cannot do what they want. Some people want to rape and murder children, for example. Do you *really* think they should be allowed to do what they want?

The huge difference is that Christianity, like almost all religions, is utterly amoral. Christians often go against their own book of orders *because* it's utterly amoral and they're trying to apply some morality (e.g. not murdering children for not being obedient enough).

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Sunday, January 19, 2014 3:23:15 AM
I would agree that Atheism is a bad term to describe it, Nihilism is much better.


It isn't, since it already has a meaning and it's not the same meaning.

If you want a new word, make one up rather than confusing the issue by misusing an existing word with a different meaning.

I suggest one that has a relevant etymology, of course. Greek would be a good choice - it's a fairly common root for English words and it's traditionally associated with matters of thought. You'd be looking for a word which describes the idea of a person who does not have any gods. So your roots would be 'theos' ('gods') and the prefix 'a' ('without'). 'atheos'. Anglicisation would make it 'atheist' and 'atheism'.

And we're back to the beginning again.

Do you object to using Greek as the root language? If so, what about all the other English words with Greek roots? Would you replace those too?

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Sunday, January 19, 2014 3:08:36 AM
Atheism only exists to mock God.


Which one?

But you're wrong anyway, obviously. Try thinking for a second - why do you think it make sense for any atheist, let alone all of them, to not believe in any gods solely for the purpose of mocking one of those gods they don't believe exist?

If you don't believe in anything you are a nihilist.


You don't know what atheism is. You don't know what nihilism is. Why should anyone take you seriously on this subject?


Without an absolute anyone can claim any morality they want in time and justify it based on preference.


Which is exactly what theists do. They just add a false claim to absolute authority for the "morality" they make up.

Religion is amoral, anyway. It's about obedience regardless of what is right or wrong, i.e. what is moral. Religion has absolute disregard for morality.

PopCap
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 570 Posts
Saturday, January 18, 2014 8:24:46 PM
@Zuriel

"stay small"

What of it? Whether I am "small" or otherwise makes no difference. I come to get what I can get and I shall not be punished? Do you expect your internet "morality" is enough to stop me from reaping the very real rewards that I enjoy by disciplining myself to disregard the feeling of like beings?

No. I recommend people give it a try. There's nothing at stake, everything to gain.

TheOrigin
Male, 18-29, Europe
 501 Posts
Saturday, January 18, 2014 3:41:41 PM
"Why not just stop giving people who are married special treatment makes a lot more sense."

On the contrary. We have been taught in social studies that a family is the single most important building block of a sovereign nation/state/society/culture. You get the point. So yes, families should by all means be supported. I am not against same sex partnerships, but I do think that a child producing traditional marriage should be preferred and supported.

Also, out of curiosity: we have a law regarding "common household" which basically states that a couple sharing a household for a year can apply for this paper and gain several privileges of a married couple (last will, medical documentary sharing, common property and stuff. all except anything that has to do with children and i think it does not allow for a tax cut, but other than that...). Do you have something like that?

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13453 Posts
Saturday, January 18, 2014 2:39:07 PM
"Why do YOU care"?


I don't. I just find the process pointless if you need a piece of paper saying you're now together forever you might be looking to compensate for something missing. Which is probably why well over half end in divorce.

@SmagBoy1

All those thing apply to unmarried couples living together too. Why not just stop giving people who are married special treatment makes a lot more sense.

Wundt
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 364 Posts
Saturday, January 18, 2014 1:57:29 PM
I cute exercise, but many of the statements come off as disjointed and not flowing well. If they had trimmed it down it would have been better.

Beyond being an interesting exercise, it is not really a good statement of the different beliefs. "The more you have the happier you will be" is not part of atheism, and the Christian side is a hardline doctrine, and not representative of most Christians I know.

SmagBoy1
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4243 Posts
Saturday, January 18, 2014 1:02:47 PM
Actually marriage is a HUGE deal. Why? Because of all of the rights and privileges that come along with it. There are HUGE financial penalties levied of same-sex partners in the cases of property and resource transfer that are non-existent with opposite-sex marriage. That doesn't even approach healthcare rights, insurance privileges, various rates for services, etc. Let's not pretend that it's not a significant and real civil rights issue. Anyone who does is being willfully ignorant.


patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4598 Posts
Saturday, January 18, 2014 12:36:27 PM
McGovern1981:
"If you're Atheist why are you so hung up on a overpriced religious ceremony that no one wants to go to for a piece of paper that says together forever. "
-----

Not a religious ceremony at all. It's a deceleration of commitment. I married my wife at city hall, before a judge. No God required.

The issue is not "Why does HE care?" it's "Why do YOU care"? What difference does it make to you if two people get married? For him, he's not allowed a basic human right, for you , no harm done. That's the big difference here.

broizfam
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 3513 Posts
Saturday, January 18, 2014 12:33:36 PM
@McGovern1981,
Not all marriages come with a religious ceremony. He's also not allowed to have a civil marriage. Also, while I'm an atheist I have no expectation that I'm better than anyone who hasn't proven themselves a lesser human than I. it has nothing at all to do with whether the other person believes in a god or gods. You're right, though, in that there are atheists who think that way. There are also "believers" who feel they are better than atheists purely because of their belief. Some of them are pretty awful examples of human beings, unfortunately.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13453 Posts
Saturday, January 18, 2014 12:14:12 PM
denying me my marriage to a man."


If you're Atheist why are you so hung up on a overpriced religious ceremony that no one wants to go to for a piece of paper that says together forever.


Atheism: The believe you're beter than people who believe there might be something more after death and to this life because a book told you so. Which sound a lot like what you banter on about constantly.

broizfam
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 3513 Posts
Saturday, January 18, 2014 10:49:30 AM
@Agent00Smith,
"Atheism only exists to mock God."
How can atheism mock God when there is no God? The comment makes no sense. Also, there's rather more to nihilism than just a lack of belief in god(s). I'm an atheist, not a nihilist.

@SmagBoy1,
I thought it was linguistically clever in that it can be read forward or backward and make sense to the reader. Beyond that I'm with you all the way.

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