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Minimum Wage Argument [Pic]

Hits: 8537 | Rating: (3.1) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: patchouly
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 68 9 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4598 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:17:05 AM
...Cont.

I work, sometimes as much as 12 hours a day. My wife works full time but just slightly above minimum wage. Rents are high. We will never own a home, never save money for a vacation, never retire. How is it fair that people like us get thrown under society's bus?

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4598 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:14:04 AM
McGovern1981
"Welfare queens shouldn't pop out kids they can't support because they are too stupid to learn a skill. They call that life."
-----

And that, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with the Conservative's view.

My family is not a "Welfare Queen", yet we make just enough to scratch by. I was a valedictorian at my high school, learned to build and program computers (and later on learned how to program and repair a robot arm), yet we often have to eat boxed macaroni for dinner because there isn't enough money for real food. We have enough credit card debt to sink a ship and have cut back everything we could (the only reason I have internet is because I make money with it).

There just aren't any jobs out there. The unemployment numbers don't mean anything because you have people like me, working part time minimum wage jobs. We take what we can get, but the pickings are slim.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13443 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:03:41 AM
That's like saying that if two people work the same job, but one has a family and one does not, that the 'family man' should automatically make more.


They call that welfare and it's one of the reasons it's completely broken.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:58:50 AM

Obviously $15 is silly, but it has been a long time since it went up. I don't think a 1 dollar increase will force Burger King to close shop.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4639 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:58:02 AM
patchouly-"The big mistake you are making is that the people who are hoarding the cash"

The mistake you are making is you actually think they're hoarding cash and swimming around in it like Scrooge McDuck.

patchouly-"have it make a million in profits and pay their workers fairly."

The do pay them fairly. It's not up to you to decide what they are 'allowed' to profit.

patchouly-"guys at the bottom who can't feed their kids"

Is that the company's problem? The agreement between a worker and a company is just between them. The worker's family (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with it.

I've never had a job where, upon interviewing, they asked 'do you have a family to support?'.

That's like saying that if two people work the same job, but one has a family and one does not, that the 'family man' should automatically make more.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13443 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:57:52 AM
I love how some of you will defend it.


Like you with the opposite with no actual supporting argument.

Instead of a corporation making a billion in profits, have it make a million in profits and pay their workers fairly.



No they just raise prices or outsource putting the unskilled morons at about the same pay level as the middle class that holds a skill thereby screwing us all.

complaining that the guys at the bottom who can't feed their kids, are greedy for wanting better pay.



Welfare queens shouldn't pop out kids they can't support because they are too stupid to learn a skill. They call that life.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:51:37 AM
@patchouly

Make less money, you greedy bastards!

I noticed how you didn't offer a method to accomplish this.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4639 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:51:25 AM
jops360-"maby 20 years ago"

Still true today. If you're 40 and working for minimum wage the problem is you, not the system.

jops360-" so you are claiming that 90% of the job force would just be fired"

Well, seeing as your logic and reasoning ability sucks, it's no wonder that your reading comprehension suck. Please TRY to re-read what I said. I said '90+% of those NOW EMPLOYED in minimum wage jobs would be displaced.' Working at Walmart is easy.

Say a guy makes $15 an hour NOW digging ditches. He's willing to do the hard work for good money. NOW offer him the SAME pay for doing an far easier jobs, say Walmart, inside out of the weather.

Which do you think he'll choose? (And I can gurantee you the majority of those working at walmart now wouldn't have the skills or the urge to take the ditch-digging job).

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4639 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:50:37 AM
jops360-"do you like automatic phone service? do you no try to talk to a real person?"

It depends. In some things I prefer a real person. In some a real person is a hindrance.

Talking to the IRS, give me a person.

BUT, when I order pizza from Dominos, I've found it's easier to use their phone ap. I don't have to shout over the phone to make myself understood over the kitch noise and hope the person, who may or may not be interested in his job, get it right.

Every order via phone app has been 100% correct, EVERY time. They figure 30% of t her sales in the US uses their app. That's 1/3rd of the customers that don't need human interaction.

If it can be done by phone app, that person behind the counter can be replaced by a touchscreen.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:48:31 AM
Am I late?

I noticed how it's the "poor" people who blame the "rich" people for making them "poor" while also looking to other "rich" people in government to make them less "poor."

Let me know how that works out for you.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4598 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:44:50 AM
The big mistake you are making is that the people who are hoarding the cash would have to charge more to compensate the higher wages. Here's an idea. Make less money, you greedy bastards! Pay your employees properly. You can still sit on a pile of cash and own yachts and mansions, just make sure you pay your employees first.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4598 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:41:38 AM
I love how some of you will defend it. It's simple. Instead of a corporation making a billion in profits, have it make a million in profits and pay their workers fairly.

You seem to think that a minimum wage job is starting job but the reality is, it's all that's available these days. Minimum wage, part time jobs.

The worst part is, like in the cartoon, the greedy bastards at the top, sitting on piles of cash, complaining that the guys at the bottom who can't feed their kids, are greedy for wanting better pay.

DromEd
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 1576 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:37:16 AM
Musuko....I don't think it's a good idea for people with free/subsidised accomodation to be able to undercut those who have to pay for their accomodation.


You know that's a pretty scary thing you just said. Add to that the fact that I doubt you could explain why its a scary thing ...well that makes it even more scary.

Bakcagain21
Male, 18-29, Europe
 553 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:13:05 AM
Example 3 - You own a shop, minimum wage is £10. Over a 10 hour night shift you sell £105. You keep this shift as it serves customers and gives someo one a job. Raise it to £11, it now cost's you £110 a night you make a £5 loss. Your busier trade during the day allows you to absorb the additional cost their, but you have to drop the night worker.


These are all potential situations as a lot of companies run on small margins. Even big companies have tiny margins that just add up. Adding the cost for one worker may be small but it adds up. Then it can make things unprofitable and the company to survive will be the one who either raises the cost least. Or they just go out of business.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13443 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:12:39 AM
According to 2011 data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the average hourly wage of a garbage man in the United States was $16.55. Now tell me do you think people will stick around handling your crap when they can get a job screwing up your order and handing you the incorrect change back for almost the same amount? See any issues with this I'm entitled thought process yet?

Bakcagain21
Male, 18-29, Europe
 553 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:09:47 AM
@Musuko42 Many ways. Example 1, you are a factory owner. It costs you £8 an hour to have a employee do it. To buy a machine to do it, then maintain it you pay a lot. Split this cost over the machines lifetime(before it naturally degrades) cost's £10 an hour. Raising minimum wage to £12 you make the machine the cheaper option.

Example 2 - A supermarket by's a product from a local producer. It adding additional minimum wage costs you add £2 to the price. To pay additional shipping to get it from China would cost £1. You switch suppliers, there is no demand for the local producer any more so the jobs cease to exist. (international competition is the real suppressor of wages in industry and it's so blatantly obvious for anyone who looks into the real facts)

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13443 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 5:59:08 AM
The only gap you tighten up by raising the min wage is between people who hold a skill and those who chose to do nothing with their lives. The 1% remains untouched and all you do is encourage no effort.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 5:23:55 AM
I'm confused by this notion that jobs are lost when minimum wage goes up. What business hires two people when one will do because the wages are cheap?

What business fires a worker that they need because the wages go up?

"Well gee, I need a man to do this job...without him, my business cannot function at all...but I'm gonna have to fire him because he'll cost $15 an hour instead of $10 an hour...damn and blast."

I mean...come on. How does it even make sense?

Raise prices, yes.
Cut costs elsewhere, yes.
Fire unnecessary workers, yes (but what business hasn't done that anyway?)
Fire necessary workers...I don't think so.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 5:15:06 AM
@MeGrendel

"A percent of the jobs are eliminated to help cover the increased cost of labor."

How? If the business could cut those jobs without harming the functioning of their business, they would have cut them already.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 5:13:19 AM
@Andrew155

"Even for a 23 year old who can live reasonably well on it as a starter wage."

How? Rent is no cheaper when you're 23 than when you're 30.

The only way a 23 year old (childless) person is going to live cheaper than an older (childless) person is by living under their parents' roof, effectively being subsidised.

I don't think it's a good idea for people with free/subsidised accomodation to be able to undercut those who have to pay for their accomodation.

auburnjunky
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 10127 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 4:34:25 AM
This is stupid.

Raising the minimum wage will not make his pile smaller, or the other guy's pile bigger.

They both stay the same, higher on the chart.

Costs would rise in comparison as well.

DromEd
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 1576 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 4:32:14 AM
All these minimum wage hikes and ten trillion + spent on programs for the poor and the problem still exists. Anybody with half a brain has already figured out that throwing money at this problem doesn't fix it.

There's a good portion of the US population who will live hand to mouth. Doesn't matter how much money they have. They will waste it on crap and then wake up broke and looking for a hand-out. I'm thinking pro athletes and lottery winners as the worst offenders.

som-tam
Male, 18-29, Asia
 652 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 4:28:18 AM
surely if a company's overheads in crease then the price of the service or product increases, thus, negating any wage increase with a matching rise in living costs.

Nickel2
Male, 50-59, Europe
 4616 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:51:31 AM
I'm suffering minimum wage argument fatiguefluenza
Next>

jops360
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 577 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:44:17 AM
megrendal -
"Minimumm wage is set as training wheels. What you pay untrained workers to learn work skills (some of which never learn)."
maby 20 years ago. today its the standard. there are plenty of trained people that are stuck making this amount because their job found out that there is no where else for them to go. so you are claiming that 90% of the job force would just be fired? are you that stupid? with that sort of raise it might be close to 15% and thats just due to small businesses. really my ideal would be to set min wage alongside the poverty line. that way if you do have a job you could not receive government aid. but then that would make it a LIVABLE wage and god forbid that, right?


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