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Minimum Wage Argument [Pic]

Hits: 8538 | Rating: (3.1) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: patchouly
Page: 1 2 3 4 57 8 9 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4645 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:53:38 AM
JadesDitoyr:
"Now, what about the inverse? Would lowering minimum wage have the same chance of reducing the cost of goods?"
----

That was the theory, wasn't it. It worked well until corporations got greedy. Trickle down doesn't work. They keep the extra cash and pay their workers less. That's what really happens.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4645 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:52:09 AM
Just a matter of time before the middle class erasure gets you. Trust me. Just a matter of time...

JadesDitoyr
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 592 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:50:46 AM
@patchouly
Now, what about the inverse? Would lowering minimum wage have the same chance of reducing the cost of goods?

If unskilled labor cost less, would the skilled labor you provide produce a more livable wage?

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4645 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:50:23 AM
MeGrendel:
"I noticed you cut the part of my post that pointed out there ARE jobs, and even told you of one prime example...if you're willing to put some effort into it.

You demonstrate that you are not willing."
----

Willing to what? Pick up my family, have my wife quit her job and move to the US? Who will pay for the move? Who will feed my kid? I'm not going on welfare and we can't save up enough for a move. It's far too expensive.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4645 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:48:15 AM
@MeGrendel,

That's called "luck". I find that to be a common thread in folks like you. You were lucky enough to pull out and then assume it's because you are somehow better or worked harder. The point I'm making is, that simply isn't the case.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4859 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:48:10 AM
patchouly-"Yes there is. Minimum wage...yadda yadda BS poor me"

I noticed you cut the part of my post that pointed out there ARE jobs, and even told you of one prime example...if you're willing to put some effort into it.

You demonstrate that you are not willing.

So, we'll just realize that you're only willing to blame others.

Mikeman64
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 131 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:47:20 AM
Let's raise the minimum wage to $500.00 hour. Will that help? Good luck getting food from the new $750.00 value menu.Higher minimum wages equals less jobs people. A good employee will be paid based on the value of their work.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4645 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:47:02 AM
@McGovern1981,
There are people who abuse the system. I won't go on welfare. I'll take what work I can get. But it shouldn't be this way. A guy who did well in school, trained, works hard and does what he can to get by shouldn't suffer in this society. I am a beacon of where things are going. It used to be that just the lazy went under and complained. Now it's happening to the middle class. I was at the bottom of that line and now I'm under it. It's moving up and it's just a matter of time before that line is above where you guys are. You'll see. The erasure of the middle class is working it's way up and you guys are next.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4859 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:45:36 AM
patchouly-"Just wait until this happens to you "

That's just it. It HAS happened to me. An entire industry changed and I had to change careers.

I was laid off due to a reduction in forces, I went from chemical lab to filling pails and drums because it paid. I worked my way BACK to chemical work and earned a spot in Research.

I change again because I developed a system for my company. I CREATED my current job.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4645 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:43:40 AM
patchouly-"there are no jobs out there."
MeGrendel:
"Yes, there is."
----

Yes there is. Minimum wage, part time jobs. TONS of them. That's what I do. Problem is, there isn't any work that will pay the bills.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13611 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:43:05 AM
There just aren't any jobs out there. The unemployment numbers don't mean anything because you have people like me, working part time minimum wage jobs. We take what we can get, but the pickings are slim.


That sucks but I don't see forcing places to pay more for entry level jobs helping those employment numbers just the opposite infact. Assistance is fine if you're making an effort but in this country people make a living spitting out kids and not taking care of them because of the way the system is setup. Keep looking there's going to be something out there at some point.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4859 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:41:03 AM
patchouly-"complaining that I work as hard as everyone else"

Life's not fair, and wage is not dependant on how 'hard' you work, but with what value you bring to your company (and this is true from the floor sweeper all the way to the owner).

A ditch digger with a shovel works harder than a fork-lift driver. Guess which one accomplishes more and earns more for his business?

patchouly-"but get paid less because of low minimum wage"

Again, if you're 40-49 and still making minimum wage, the problem is not the system.

patchouly-"and high employer greed."

Of course, NEVER your fault.

patchouly-"there are no jobs out there."

Yes, there is. Maybe not in your field or your location. That's why you have to be willing to change either or both.

Currently, If I were looking for a job, I'd head to North Dakota. 3% unemployment rate due to oil boom. Even the local McDonald's is

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4645 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:39:45 AM
@JadesDitoyr,
I agree. Raising minimum wage will make the greedy bastards raise the cost of things and then nothing is gained. That's why we need some sort of control. Some way to reign in the corporations.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4645 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:38:28 AM
MeGrendel:
"Again, if you're 40-49 and still making minimum wage, the problem is not the system. "
----

I'm 43. After the business I worked for went under, I have been able to find any other work that has a similar pay. It's a devastating sea of low paying crap out here. It's easy to sit back with your secure, high paying job and judge. Just wait until this happens to you or someone you know. Then you will change your tune.

JadesDitoyr
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 592 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:37:23 AM
@patchouly
Your argument posits that
1) corporations are greedy, and want the poor to suffer.
2) When minimum wage goes up businesses will become less greedy and not a) fire people or b) increase prices.

The two views are not compatible. Your personal situation is sad, and I empathize with you. I really do, but it does not change my stance. Everything that I know about economics and the job market indicates that you, and I, would be worse off if the Minimum Wage increased.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4645 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:35:42 AM
MeGrendel:
"Like I said, I've changed carreers 3 times."
-----

You poor bastard. Three whole times? I got news for you sunshine. I've been through several jobs now, all in a bid to work my way up. But it's always one dead end job to the next. Never any room to move up. Never any hope of getting paid more.

papajon0s1
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 579 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:34:50 AM
It seems to me that raising the minimum wage, after all these arguments both for and against come to pass, simply puts the problem off for a bit only to come full circle and we do it all over again only now it's $20 an hour. Then, $25, then $50, then more. No, I don't have a brilliant solution and have no degree in Economics. Perhaps we need to seek out the people of goodwill who lead with great compassion for those who labor; those who understand the good of the company lies in the best care of it's people. Then, make those the people we hold up as role models and make them the news headliners everyday. Well, one can only hope.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4859 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:33:57 AM
patchouly-"complaining that I work as hard as everyone else"

Life's not fair, and wage is not dependant on how 'hard' you work, but with what value you bring to your company (and this is true from the floor sweeper all the way to the owner).

A ditch digger with a shovel works harder than a fork-lift driver. Guess which one accomplishes more and earns more for his business?

patchouly-"but get paid less because of low minimum wage"

Again, if you're 40-49 and still making minimum wage, the problem is not the system.

patchouly-"and high employer greed."

Of course, NEVER your fault.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4645 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:30:41 AM
Some nice twisting there, MeGrendel. You know I'm not actually asking you to pay my bills...right?

The point is, there are no jobs out there. I've done everything from driving a taxi cab to picking strawberries just to pay the bills. I'm not a computer guy who is sitting around waiting for computer work, I'm a computer guy who is taking any job he can to feed his Daughter.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4645 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:28:22 AM
You're missing the point, MeGrendel. I'm not complaining that I work too hard. I complaining that I work as hard as everyone else, but get paid less because of low minimum wage and high employer greed.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4859 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:27:21 AM
patchouly-"swill you pay my rent and feed my kid while I go back to school?"

See, you consider it SOMEONE ELSE'S responsibility to make it easy on you.

Like I said, I've changed carreers 3 times. NOT ONCE did it involve going back to school and NEVER ONCE did I ask someone to make it easy on me.

You only work 12 hours...that leaves you time to work on other skills. It's YOUR responsibility.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4645 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:26:48 AM
...and, the point of mentioning I was valedictorian is not because it holds any water in the real world but to show that I'm no slouch. I'm not a high school drop out who can't do more than flip burgers.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4859 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:25:27 AM
patchouly-"sometimes as much as 12 hours a day"

You poor soul. 12 WHOLE hours? (let me know if you don't hear the sarcasm in that)

Some people work 16, or more. Many a time I've averaged over 100 hours a week when needed.

patchouly-"We will never own a home, never save money for a vacation, never retire."

Sounds like you're resigned to your fate. No use trying to better it or anything. After all, it's much easier to blame others.

patchouly-"How is it fair that people like us get thrown under society's bus?"

1) Life is not/never was/ never will be either: Fair, cheap or easy.
2) 'Society' didn't do this to you.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4645 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:24:21 AM
@MeGrendel
Great idea! So, will you pay my rent and feed my kid while I go back to school?

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4859 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:21:44 AM
patchouly-"I was a valedictorian at my high school"

Congrats...in the real world that's right up with being the High School Quarterback...in the real world it means jack squat.

patchouly-"There just aren't any jobs out there."

Well, if there are no jobs building and programming computers and robot arms, then change specialties. I mean, a VALADICTORIAN should be smart enough to find out what's in demand and apply themselves...

I started out in graphic design, the OLD way where you did color seperations by hand and hand-drew everything. Bottom fell out of that around 1990. So I went into chemistry, started working in a wet lab. Worked my way up to Research Chemist before changing carreers again.

If you're just sitting there moaning about the lack of jobs working on robot arms.....

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