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Minimum Wage Argument [Pic]

Hits: 8535 | Rating: (3.1) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: patchouly
Page: 1 24 5 6 7 8 9 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
 1805 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:21:36 AM
I don't know how people can deny that children of rich people have a much easier time staying rich and children of poor people tend to stay poor because they don't have all the advantages rich kids do. Rich kids get better schools, job connections through their parents, money to start a business or an instant career in the family business or just coast through life on a trust and never work a day in their life. Rich kids start out at the top of the heap and poor kids start at the bottom of the mountain. The number of rich people grows exponentially and the chasm widens because none of the money gets spread around. To say poor people just need to work harder is totally ignoring the mounting hurdles rich people put in the way so they can stay rich and make more money than they will ever put back into the economy just so they can pass it along to their kids who will never work a day in their life or will dabble in fashion or being a dj or just being paid to show up, like Paris Hilton.

Bakcagain21
Male, 18-29, Europe
 553 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:15:32 AM
@Musuko42 btw I answered your how does minimum wage lose jobs question awhile ago

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:57:16 AM
@Musuko

Now, I'll happily admit that luck plays a role and that it is possible - albeit improbable - to be so unlucky as to become 'stuck' in your situation.

Of course, since the majority of people are in a better financial situation, this comes with the implication that he is improbably unlucky. I find it hard to imagine that, despite millions and millions of other people having average luck, he has found himself to be so drastically below average. Sure, it's possible, but it's extremely unlikely.

As is almost always the case, user error is probably the cause of the problem.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:51:59 AM
@Musuko

He was blaming rich people and corporations for his predicament earlier.

"I complaining that I work as hard as everyone else, but get paid less because of low minimum wage and high employer greed."

This quote suggests that, if nothing else, part of his problem is derived from employer greed; implicitly, the employer is wealthy.

"That's why we need some sort of control. Some way to reign in the corporations."
This one suggests that corporations are at fault for some of the ills of society - which includes his own.

"Make less money, you greedy bastards! Pay your employees properly."
Since he is an employee, this quote suggests that some "greedy bastards" are at fault for failing to properly compensate him.

So yes, he is blaming rich people for at least some of his problems.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2829 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:40:19 AM
@MeGrendel

Luck is not a someone, and I don't see why it's not reasonable to blame luck if it's been bad to you. If I, a healthy non-smoker, get diagnosed with lung cancer tomorrow, you're damn right I'm going to get annoyed at luck.

patchouly does not seem to be saying your accomplishments are not your own. Nor does he seem to be blaming rich people.

What he DOES seem to be saying is that you're wrong to treat his situation as a simple hurdle that can be beaten by just "working harder".

Please can you not accept that sometimes luck really does deal a person a bad hand and get them trapped in a situation where they're simply too stuck to claw themselves out?

And that it would benefit us all as a whole to have a way to offer those stuck people a helping hand to get out (so that they in turn can return the favour along the line)?

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:38:12 AM
@patchouly

But that's my point - you never became an expert in something small enough to grow your reputation.

You will not grow your business because you know PHP. You would need to be one of the best PHP experts in the region; you aren't and you won't ever be - none of us will.

So, be realistic. Become an expert in Drupal themes. Grow a reputation for that and then expand. As a development company, you will never get enough clients without a good reputation.


patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4556 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:36:04 AM
@MeGrendel
Still right over your head huh? Well, we can't all be smart. Luckily you have that "skill set" to fall back on.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4556 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:35:02 AM
Anyway...I have to get ready for a meeting.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4445 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:35:01 AM
Musuko42-"To elaborate on what I mean: you can work hard and do everything right and make good decisions and STILL end up stuck because luck turned against you. "

Absolutely agree. I can do EVERY thing right..and get turned into a greasy spon on the highway this afternoon.

But, short of death, I will not stop trying nor will I blame someone else for my failure.

All I see patchouly saying is excuses why he can't succeed, blaming others for it and saying the only people who ARE successful are either 'evil rich' or 'lucky'.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4556 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:32:13 AM
Musuko42
To elaborate on what I mean: you can work hard and do everything right and make good decisions and STILL end up stuck because luck turned against you.

Not everyone who is poor is there because of bad luck, true. But equally, not everyone who is poor is there because of their own personal failings or laziness.
-----
This is exactly what I'm saying.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4556 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:31:09 AM
HumanAction
"Give your code away for free. Start making a reputation for yourself as an expert."
----
This is what I did with HTML, (Back before everyone could do it). I used to design websites in notepad. Got a reputaion and started designing. Worked for a company that went under and opened my own webdesign business. Then, everyone learned how to program HTML. So, I found a job repairing a computer in a robot arm. I used to take the book home and learn how to program the thing and soon, I became the only person in Canada that knew how to program and repair this arm. Then, they went under. Then I found a job at a forum. I learned PHP and MySQL (enough to get by anyway) and started working for them. Sadly, they don't pay much so I need to move on...It's one thing after another and hasmy whole life.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2829 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:31:07 AM
@MeGrendel

"Yes. Moving. One of the best options when the job market in your area sucks."

Great idea! When you have no money or little money because you can't find work or the work you have got sucks, simply spend a whole heap of money that you don't have to move to an area that does have good job opportunities...an area that'll no doubt have higher house prices and rents BECAUSE it has good job opportunities.

Real smart that.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2829 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:27:16 AM
@MeGrendel

To elaborate on what I mean: you can work hard and do everything right and make good decisions and STILL end up stuck because luck turned against you.

Not everyone who is poor is there because of bad luck, true. But equally, not everyone who is poor is there because of their own personal failings or laziness.

DavidXJ
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1105 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:26:47 AM
If this is really how people perceive this debate, then they aren't using an ounce of logic. It's not that simple from either side. This cartoon makes a black and white debate out of a sea of grey.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4556 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:26:31 AM
DuckBoy87:
"you're arguing on the internet.
You have free time."
-----
Actually, I am between clients. I have a meeting at 1:30. Taking an hour to make lunch and argue on the internet does not imply anything.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4445 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:25:36 AM
patchouly-"I learned Flash. I am familiar with MySQL and PHP as I run my own server and the forums on it. I had to teach myself to set up and operate a WAMP Stack."

See, I don't even know half of what that meant. So you have some knowledge. Expand on it and go in a different direction.

patchouly-"Moving...LOL!"

Yes. Moving. One of the best options when the job market in your area sucks.

Or, continue what you're doing and b\tch about how 'the Rich' are screwing you over.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:25:35 AM
@patchouly

I learned Flash. I am familiar with MySQL and PHP as I run my own server and the forums on it. I had to teach myself to set up and operate a WAMP Stack.

Good, then that's a start. Now you need to specialize.

You won't find reliable work just because you know PHP and SQL; there are many other people out there who have the same skills. Go find a semi-popular framework or CMS and start developing for it. Give your code away for free. Start making a reputation for yourself as an expert.

Then, start selling and/or branching out. This is exactly how I started. I started out in Magento.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4556 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:24:52 AM
MeGrendel
"I notice you have a computer. And probably an internet connection. Probably a cell phone too. Eliminate those and you'll save money. "
----
If you read my posts you can see that I use my computer as part of my income. I had to give up my home phone (I only use a cell phone now as it's cheaper). If I drove to another country for work, there would be no one here to look after my Daughter (My wife works full time). I looked into daycare but it is $250 a month, just for before and after school.

Moving is not an option. I am currently upgrading my computer skills and hoping to find something in that field. Hopefully with a company that isn't about to go under.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2829 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:24:06 AM
@MeGrendel

Surely you can accept what Patchouly is saying: luck of your circumstances does play a role in your success. It is not the only factor, but it is one that should be recognised.

DuckBoy87
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2651 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:22:53 AM
@patchouly, you're arguing on the internet.
You have free time.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4445 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:21:23 AM
patchouly-"No. It's too expensive. It takes the money to do it."

I notice you have a computer. And probably an internet connection. Probably a cell phone too. Eliminate those and you'll save money.

Save enough money to pay for gas to drive to N. Dakota and get a job. You have to be REALLY crappy not to be able to find a job in N.Dakota at this time.

Sleep in your car and send money home to cover bill.

Or, continue what you're doing and b\tch about how 'the Rich' are screwing you over. You probably even thing they're stealing from you, too.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4556 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:21:07 AM
HumanAction
Learn Flash. Learn about Mongo or SQL architectures. Start playing around in PHP or ASP.
----
I learned Flash. I am familiar with MySQL and PHP as I run my own server and the forums on it. I had to teach myself to set up and operate a WAMP Stack.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4556 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:19:28 AM
MeGrendel
No, you're unwilling to attempt some of the strategies I've mentioned. "
------
Like what? Moving? Read my previous post. You must be one of those guys who thinks they are poor when they only have a few thousand dollars left in the bank.

Moving...LOL!

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:18:48 AM
@patchouly

Problem is, nothing ever seems to pan out and I am continuously having to renew my strategy.

Perhaps that is your problem. The things you listed are average; many other people can do them and many other already do. The only way to get into the market then is to either charge less than everyone else or be better - which takes time.

You say you know HTML? Everyone knows HTML. Everyone knows CSS. Everyone is at least competent in JavaScript.

Learn Flash. Learn about Mongo or SQL architectures. Start playing around in PHP or ASP.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4445 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:17:29 AM
patchouly-"Same amount of work."

Somehow I doubt that.

patchouly-"Same strategies.

No, you're unwilling to attempt some of the strategies I've mentioned.

patchouly-"Different luck with the end results."

Again, for YOU it HAS to be luck, because it can't possibly be YOUR responsiblity.

Need a towel?

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