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Minimum Wage Argument [Pic]

Hits: 8538 | Rating: (3.1) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: patchouly
Page: 13 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
bliznik
Male, 30-39, Western US
 508 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 4:19:41 PM
"I don't know how people can deny that children of rich people have a much easier time staying rich and children of poor people tend to stay poor because they don't have all the advantages rich kids do. Rich kids get better schools, job connections through their parents, money to start a business or an instant career in the family business or just coast through life on a trust and never work a day in their life."

Rich parents ALSO tend to teach their kids to work smarter and work harder while poor parents tend to teach their kids to be happy and have fun. It's been proven time and time again that giving $$$ to poor areas does NOT help the second generation make more $$$.

normalfreak2
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2028 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:19:19 PM
Just like with all things McGrendle it's not always one of two possibilities. You make it seem like there's only Hard work and no luck when I'm fairly certain the truth lies somewhere inbetween. You work hard to get noticed and you hope that happens and you hope your skills are recognized. Not everyone gets there. I didn'tt I had to move to a different company and start my own business to get ahead. Not everyone has the gumption nor the ability to do that. Not everyone should wait to live their life until they do either because at one point their life may have passed them by. Call me a bleeding heart but I think everyone deserves a liveable wage.

normalfreak2
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2028 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:14:30 PM
@Duckboy

What are you talking about?

Bakcagain21
Male, 18-29, Europe
 553 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 1:48:54 PM
@DuckBoy87 actually if he listened he got a lot of business and life advice and you could argue was 15 minutes well spent today :P

DuckBoy87
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2734 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 1:37:33 PM
@patchouly: "Well...that killed the last 15 extra minutes I had today."

You could've used that extra 15 minutes to think of an idea on how to use your programming skills to make a marketable program to sell it, instead of arguing on the internet.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 1:31:18 PM
... and enter the obligatory comment about how people who don't support minimum wage increases (or the entire minimum wage system) are evil. Congrats! You're that guy.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:56:02 PM
175 COMMENTS?!

It amazes me how much energy some people are willing to put into being outraged over the idea of fast-food workers getting a few more bucks per hour.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4853 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:47:15 PM
patchouly-"And you've demonstrated a propensity toward thinking you are better than others because of your luck."

1) I think no such thing
2) There you go again, attributing 'luck' onto others in a sad attempt to negate your failure to accomplish. After all, it CAN'T be YOUR fault..

patchouly-"The way you twist my statements"

Those were DIRECT quotes. Unedited and untwisted.

patchouly-"Would you like to attack the way I parent"

I haven't attacked the way you parent. It's not part of the discussion, so why should I have an opinion? I HOPE you love your daughter and are a good father.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4642 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:33:05 PM
Well...that killed the last 15 extra minutes I had today. I have to go pick up my Daughter from school. Would you like to attack the way I parent, one last time before I pick her up?

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4642 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:31:20 PM
MeGrendel:
"He lives under the delusions that he's 'trying just as hard as everyone else so the results should be just as equal'. As if equal effort does, or should, result in identicle outcomes.
-----
I don't live under that delusion at all. Just another example of how you are twisting my words.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4642 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:28:33 PM
@MeGrendel
And you've demonstrated a propensity toward thinking you are better than others because of your luck. The way you twist my statements can only imply that you are to thick to understand. I was hoping you were just a troll...guess not.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4853 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:27:23 PM
@patchouly

Just noticed the last line got cut off.

He lives under the delusions that he's 'trying just as hard as everyone else so the results should be just as equal'. As if equal effort does, or should, result in identicle outcomes.

(hope the clarifies it)

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4853 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:23:02 PM
patchouly-"Attack my character, ability and the way I raise my kids."

Sorry, only attacked what you've presented. I didn't realize quoting your directly was an 'attack'.

You've demosntrated a propensity of blaming others rather than taking responsibility for yourself.

If what you've described is true, you've demonstrated skills not all others have, but not the inclination to do anything with them.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4853 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:20:00 PM
patchouly-"make billions in profit but don't pay their employees enough to live on."

Again, first you have to perform some work or service to the business that warrents a living wage.

Some jobs just do not warrent it.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4642 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:17:37 PM
Attack my character, ability and the way I raise my kids. Very classy MeGrendel.

Again...drat you.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4853 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:14:10 PM
Musuko42-"simply spend a whole heap of money that you don't have to move to an area"

Why does moving have to cost 'heaps of money'?

It's still more of the 'It's too harrrrrd'.

Musuko42-"patchouly does not seem to be saying your accomplishments are not your own. Nor does he seem to be blaming rich people."

Then you haven't followed the entire thread.

Patchouly: "the greedy bastards at the top"
Patchouly: "That's called "luck"."
Patchouly: "You were lucky enough to pull out"
Patchouly: "You were lucky. End of story."
Patchouly: "To suggest that your luck..."
Patchouly: "There's your luck."
Patchouly: "lucky enough to get out"
Patchouly: "That's because you were one of the lucky ones."
Patchouly: "It's like winning the lottery"

He lives under the delusions that he's 'trying just as ha

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4642 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:13:05 PM
And, in my defense, I don't blame "the rich". If you have risked cash to start a business and grew that business to a prosperous company then bought a huge house, a boat, fancy cars etc. I figure you deserve it. If you toiled away at school and fought your way to the top. You deserve it. However, I do take issue with the "greedy rich". The companies in particular that make billions in profit but don't pay their employees enough to live on. The ones that could afford to pay better, but choose not to.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4642 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:02:11 PM
HumanAction:
"Absolutely. However, since it's the extreme end of the curve, the chance of any one person occupying it is very small. The chance of any one person being two std devs below the average in term of luck is just 2.1%. Three std devs below is only 0.1%. In either case, the chance of randomly picking a person in that group is very low."
-------
Then I guess I fall into that small percentage. Someone has to occupy it.
My point is that the "curve" is becoming more evident. That "0.1%" is growing. I'm one of the first to get stuck on the other side. I'm trying like Hell to fight my way out, but there will be others and the more people stuck here the harder it becomes for all of us to get out and the numbers of us that do, drop. As long as society progresses the way it is, that is the inevitable outcome.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 11:04:04 AM
@Musuko

Somebody has to occupy the extreme ends of the bell curve, after all.

Absolutely. However, since it's the extreme end of the curve, the chance of any one person occupying it is very small. The chance of any one person being two std devs below the average in term of luck is just 2.1%. Three std devs below is only 0.1%. In either case, the chance of randomly picking a person in that group is very low.

I suppose the argument should therefore be regarding the level of unluckiness required to be 'stuck' in a situation. I can't think of a decent way to argue about this though, since there's no concrete way to measure luck.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 11:00:23 AM
@normalfreak

That's only one possibility. Truth be told, we can't know for certain who exactly will pay for the increased wages until it happens. However, I think we can agree that the money must come from somewhere.

Therefore, there are four possibilities (least likely to most likely):

1. The business owners can pay for it. It's nice to think that this will be the case, but it's not very likely since they control two of the other points below.
2. The government can subsidize.
3. The consumer can pay for it via increased prices.
4. The employee can pay for it via loss of wage, loss of other compensation, or loss of time/employment.

Can you think of any other way for the increased labor costs to be paid?

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:58:16 AM
@Bakcagain21

Although, a fast-food place staffed by robots would be amazing.

But I imagine if we were capable of building robots that could do that work for cheaper than $15 an hour, we would probably (I hope) be technologically advanced enough not to have worries like this subject.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:40:45 AM
@Bakcagain21

Apologies if I missed it: was it you talking about an increased minimum wage making it profitable for a machine to do the work instead?

Though your probably right (machine or worker in China anyway), I don't think it applys for large swathes of our economies: Europe and the US don't have large industries that rely on jobs that can be replaced my machines any more. Those jobs have already been replaced by machines, or have gone to cheaper workers elsewhere.

The jobs we are doing tend to be out of the machine's abilitys...so far anyway.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:38:21 AM
@HumanAction

"He was blaming rich people and corporations for his predicament earlier."

My apologies: I came in late to the party and didn't see those earlier posts. I stand corrected, and confirm that such blame is poorly placed.

"I find it hard to imagine that, despite millions and millions of other people having average luck, he has found himself to be so drastically below average. Sure, it's possible, but it's extremely unlikely."

I would say the opposite: not unlikely, but probable. Somebody has to occupy the extreme ends of the bell curve, after all.

If not him, someone out there is right down at the really bad end of the luck spectrum.

normalfreak2
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2028 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:37:24 AM
Some thing a lot of the anti wage increase people say is the price of everything else will go up. If the guy at MCD's is making 15 bucks an hour everyone will go there! Actually that's a fair point. Now people may consider jobs like that as livable for a time being so that OTHER business's have to charge more than minimum wage to retain them. IE anyone that works out in the weather currently as a contractor may like something like this. it makes bargaining better in their favor!. Certain industries have to start paying more and the middle class once again get's filled!

lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
 1805 Posts
Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:25:14 AM
That's why so many kids are acting like fools on reality tv. They don't see any more opportunities to make money the normal way so they embarrass themselves in a desperate attempt to get out of poverty. It's like being a court jester for the royal scraps and it's sad.

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