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Young Avoid New Health Plans [Pic+]

Hits: 5110 | Rating: (2.1) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: richanddead
Page: 13 4 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1711 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 6:39:51 AM
(cont)

She organised Occupy Baltimore and Occupy DC and often appears with and cited by people like Michael Moore and his ilk. The only reason she is talking about how bad Obamacare is, is because she wants a single payer system, which is even more unpopular and worse for America than Obamacare.

From what I read she admits to all the shortcomings of obamacare including the outrageous premiums for all people especially the young among other things and then bashes Insurance companies for not taking all risks in all areas. She says that because insurance companies will not constantly take a losses until they go under that they are gaming the system.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1711 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 6:38:38 AM
@llaa: "The article is PR for when private insurers will request for an increase in either govt. subsidized payment or end user premium rate increases."

Again, that is your opinion, you have not cited one article that says any of the information in the post was incorrect. You are dismissing it solely on the grounds that that you dislike insurance company practices, thats not proof, thats not anything.
I read your article from beginning to end. I would disagree, your link is very liberal, I know Margaret Flowers she lives in my city and she is a lobbyist for single payer system. She is very very very liberal.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 6:14:10 AM
@llaa

He proposed cutting state employee wages and benefits to help pay for these tax cuts.

So, you would have me believe that either cutting taxes or cutting public compensation is fascist? I'm not convinced you actually understand fascism.

That forced morality bit at the end is news to me... scary dude.

They're his personal beliefs; he hasn't proposed any laws regarding this as far as I'm aware. According to you then, not passing laws that support your own personal beliefs is fascist? I'm not understanding your reasoning here.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 6:09:55 AM
@llaa

The amounts you've listed are for Annual Limitation, meaning the maximum amounts per year that the insurance will pay out after you've exceeded your co-pays and deductible.

Actually, we both misread it. The $3250 is the max contribution to an HSA each year. I don't know where you came up with the idea that it was the max payout.

This is how an HDHP works: you pay 100% of the costs up to a certain amount. According to the IRS website that amount is between $1250 and $6250. After that, it is EXACTLY like an HMO. I pay a percentage of the coverage (20% in my case) and they cover the rest.

This is how it works. There is no maximum amount that they are willing to cover.

normalfreak2
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1313 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 5:11:38 AM
Dunno why the U.S. simply doesn't go single payer.

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 910 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 11:28:13 PM
@JadesDitoyr

The ACA will and does lower medical costs. Similar to how Medicaid keeps their costs low, the state and federal exchanges set their prices with the care providers. By weakening the current monopoly of health insurance companies, the exchanges should get better prices due to the volume of individuals on the plan. i.e. I can get a better price on medical items and procedures if I'm buying 50,000 at a time rather than one.

That's why Im waiting till next year to see if it works or not in practice and if the exchanges pay medical providers in due time. Insurance claims are the biggest cost hurdle facing doctors today, I mean a doctor either has to become a medical biller or hire a few to get paid, and sometimes they can wait a long time to be paid.

Im sure it needs some fine tuning but I'd rather have a single payer system. Imagine the cost when your buying millions at a time and you pay doctors and hospitals on time.

JadesDitoyr
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 451 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 11:02:12 PM
@llaa

ACA doesn't do anything to alter the cost of hospital visits, or cap costs in any way. ACA does not do anything about the cost of health care, all it does is impact Health Care Insurance.

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 910 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 10:32:21 PM
@HumanAction

This was Walker's campaign platform for governor 2010.

"As part of his campaign platform, Walker said he would create 250,000 jobs in his first term through a program that would include tax cuts for small businesses, capital gains tax cuts, and income tax cuts for the highest-earning Wisconsinites.[15] He proposed cutting state employee wages and benefits to help pay for these tax cuts.

Social issues played a part in the campaign. Walker has stated that he is "100% pro-life" and that he believes life should be protected from conception to natural death.[37] He opposes abortion, including in cases of rape and incest.[18][38] He supports abstinence-only sex education in the public schools..."

That forced morality bit at the end is news to me... scary dude.

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 910 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 10:18:19 PM
@HumanAction

I'm not a liar, you just misunderstood the IRS link.

The amounts you've listed are for Annual Limitation, meaning the maximum amounts per year that the insurance will pay out after you've exceeded your co-pays and deductible. That means after you paid out your maximum deductible of $6,250, your insurance company would only have to pay $3,250 so after paying $9,500.00 any other costs would be covered by yourself or supplementary insurance. That's not much coverage if your also ripped off by your insurance providers approved doctors or hospital. Hospitals bills can be extreme in the USA, that's what the ACA is ending with its higher standards. Not have you conned and in the poorhouse with ineffective insurance after one accident fall, car accident,etc. If you think the payout of $3,250 is dandy, ask yourself how long have you been paying your low premium without needing your insurance and you think you'd gain the advantage on the difference spent?

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 9:29:06 PM
@llaa

As for your article on Walker, how is that any different than all other state legislatures? How and the tactics he employed fundamentally different than those employed by the Senate to force the ACA through?

There is nothing here that distinguishes him and uniquely (<--- Key Word Alert) corporatist or fascist.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 9:26:53 PM
@llaa

Right off the bat, you lied. The absolute MAX deductible for an individual in 2013 is $3250 - total. This is mandated by the IRS.

My plan was $2000 at which point it moves into an HMO-like status where additional procedures have a 20% deductible. On the flip side, I can pay for all of this using a tax-free dollars in an HSA. For someone who is self-employed, that's a big savings.

Oh, and I never pay for preventative care - not even a copay. I can walk into the doctors office twelve times a year and never pay a cent for it.

The only time we ever even reached our ceiling was one year with 2 MRI's and some extra screening tests for the missus. Guess what? No hidden fees. We paid (from our HSA) the deductible and then 20% on the things past that.

Oh, and it was less than 1/6 the price of the lowest HMO we could find.

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 910 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 8:09:58 PM
Here's an article stating what it cost to develop Linux Fedora 9. Link

Juicy Quote from the article - "The result is just over $8 billion to develop Fedora 9 in year 2000 costs."


llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 910 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:59:31 PM
Nothings bigoted about knowing locations and history. Why dont you research for yourself how many multi-national corporations and bankers call CT home.

What have I said about Scott Walker as being corporatist is bigoted? He totally loves ayn rand and
libertarianism.

Anyway what kind of Conadian are you 5cats? Do you think its bad if I call Rob Ford a crack smoking alcoholic, eh?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 23895 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:41:01 PM
How am I wrong in my assessment that they are run by fascists?

@llaa: #1 It's a Federal Program, the individual States LITERALLY have nothing to do with it! Except implementation.
#2 Your bigoted stereotyping is appalling. Even for a liberal.

Name one piece of software that cost $500,000,000+, had 2+ years of development, and still doesn't work for (at least!) 8 weeks after launching.

Having health insurance hurts people? News to me.


@lauriloo: If you've no defense? Why not just admit it?
What do you think happens to you if you refuse to pay the fine/tax? Hummm?

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 910 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:19:46 PM
Article on Walkers corporatist maneuvers

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 910 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:15:28 PM
@HumanAction - HDHP are useless since the average single payer deductable for 2013 is $6,250. Most likely a healthy person would not go beyond that amount unless there was an accident. Nice thing is that you wouldnt have to pay the higher no insurance costs when you see the doctor that is in that health network. The hidden cost is that once you reach your deductable, the benefits are not much. Expensive formulary co-payments, limited lifetime maximum benefits, incremental coverage for approved procedures, lack of covered procedures, etc... After you tally in your costs and monthly premium a cash only urgent care center would cost much less. These types of problems only come after you get sick or hurt. More info on HDHP

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 910 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:07:42 PM
@richanddead
No, 2 private insurance companies reported the limited data for the article posted. My argument is that insurance companies are already being subsidized under the new ACA rules. The article is PR for when private insurers will request for an increase in either govt. subsidized payment or end user premium rate increases. Hence my statement on scare tactics a common PR tactic. This is not liberal but center article

BTW, that article is from 2005 before Murdoch bought the paper and before the economy tanked. Things are much different these days than 8 years ago. Heck, the citations in the article are from a range of 1993-2002!!


HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 6:29:06 PM
@lauriloo

Having health insurance hurts people? News to me.

Oh I just can't resist targeting your willful ignorance. This is what you said:

"That's why the penalty to not having insurance should be higher than having the cheapest insurance available OR now we should have it that if you don't have insurance"

The "hurtful" part here is the part where you increase the fines until your victim finally caves.

You brush your teeth or I'll give you a stern lecture. (didn't work)
You brush your teeth or I'll give you a smack on the wrist. (still didn't work)
You brush your teeth or I'll punch you in the face. (still no?)
OK. You brush your teeth or I'll cut out your tongue.

By your previous reasoning, you look at this and say that brushing your teeth is good for you? I bet you think no-knock warrants are to protect police officers too.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 6:23:18 PM
@llaa

You ever hear about a business or school getting caught using windows without buying it?

You're someone confused refusing to buy a product with theft. I'm not sure how you've managed this.

Paul Walker is governor of a gerrymanding state this is electing officials that will protect corporate/Koch interests by decimating public and private unions by enacting laws that repelling protectionist worker rights laws

How so? What specifically has he done that you believe to be fascist? This whole blurb sounds lovely and fun, but it lacks any specifics regarding the laws he's signed and those he's tried to repeal.

Sorry to hear you lost your useless insurance.

My HDHP was fantastic. I never had an issue with it. I'm curious how you've come to the conclusion that it was useless.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1711 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 6:10:47 PM
@llaa: "Your article link is behind a paywall."

WTF why am I the only one getting this stuff without subscribing? Try this link, it should not ask for any subscription.

link

Also editorial is an opinion piece it is not meant in any way to be impartial, I'm talking about real news not opinion perspectives. But it does account on page 1199 about the editorials in the WSJ. On page 1212 it says the news in the WSJ is still the most liberal even more than NPR or the NYT.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10206 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 6:10:04 PM
Actually, that's exactly what happens when someone without health insurance gets treated anyway and the hospital makes the rest of us pay for it.


Liberal logic:
Calls an act of charity theft
Supports expanding MedicAid and subsidizing insurance companies at the expense of taxpayers.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1711 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 5:59:13 PM
"I see nothing wrong with having the ability to see a doctor before an unknown illness causes permanent damage."

It's the cost, its all about the cost. No one works for free, and to demand such is obviously impractical. We should have focused how to get the 30 million uninsured coverage. Not redesigning the whole system so that young people now have yet another entitlement that the baby-boomer generation will use at the expense of the younger generations and will add well over a half a trillion to the dept according to the CMS.

"Medicare for all, let those pvt. insurers go broke"

That is a very emotional statement but not practical at all. You can't have something without the ability and resources to fund it. Forcing agencies to go broke is not in anyway shape or form a good way to help the people who depend on them to provide coverage.

And I don't care about your spelling honestly, was just saying.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1711 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 5:59:03 PM
@llaa:
Firstly, private insurance companies are the only one disseminating the data. Secondly, they will lose a ton of money if Obamacare doesn't work. They have no incentives to lie. They need it to work to suckle on the government teet. And you have yet to provide a source that they are wrong! Your just calling them scare-tactics and BS, because the info doesn't fit you particular partisan view. Seriously, give me a link that shows where the any of the information mentioned is incorrect, how are you automatically coming to such a conclusion without showing any facts to back up your statement?

"I still would call them out as I see them"

So back to my previous question, what about the highly liberal ones that are reporting the same thing? Do you consider them fascist too?



llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 910 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 5:46:38 PM
@Richanddead

Sigh: Your article link is behind a paywall. Where's an Aaron Schwartz when we need one... oh, right. Crap.

All I can read is the abstract.

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 910 Posts
Thursday, November 07, 2013 5:40:46 PM
You ever read the Op-Ed pieces in the WSJ?

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