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Young Avoid New Health Plans [Pic+]

Hits: 5113 | Rating: (2.1) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: richanddead
Page: 1 2 3 4 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1055 Posts
Saturday, November 09, 2013 1:52:10 PM
@OldOllie

Yes, I do agree with your second paragraph. I saw the same concerns pop up with Medicare doctors when Part D coverage came into effect. A lot of seniors saw doctors leave the plan in the earlier stages. I believe these things do sort out as it becomes easier for a medical practitioner to bill and be paid for their services. People do have coverage, just maybe not what they expected at first, but I say give it time to sort out the kinks.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 13929 Posts
Saturday, November 09, 2013 1:34:19 PM
@llaa, my third paragraph was a troll -- an exaggeration to illustrate the fact that the ACA actually does force people to buy coverage for things that they neither need or want.

I'm glad that you agree with the rest of what I said, though.

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1055 Posts
Saturday, November 09, 2013 12:27:50 AM
"DaddyDayCare'- Info

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1055 Posts
Saturday, November 09, 2013 12:25:51 AM
@OldOllie

A bunch of half truths and falsehoods!

One, the ACA does not cover abortions, sex changes, IVF Fertility treatments, and quakery. However, there is a provision that could be used as a wedge for alternative medicine, but the insurance providers are able to choose their networked doctors so that is not a big issue. There is legislation in the works to remove it, but I don't think that is necessary.

Alt Medicine:PHS Sec.2706AbortionFertility TreatmentsOldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 13929 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 9:45:18 PM
I just heard that only 18% of the uninsured, the ones who Obamacare was purported to help, have even gone onto the website -- less than the number that don't even know Obamacare exists.

Most of the traffic to the web site is from people whose current health insurance has been cancelled, and the VAST majority of them are finding higher premiums, higher deductibles, higher out-of-pocket costs, fewer choices of doctors and hospitals, and no coverage at all when traveling outside of their local area.

On the upside, the new Obamacare plans DO cover, abortions, contraception, drug and alcohol rehabilitation, sex changes, fertility treatments, and maternity care for men and seniors, in addition to acupuncture, homeopathy, naturopathy, reiki (whatever the hell that is), energy healing, meditation, and other forms of "alternative" quackery.

We should tell Obama, "If you like your balls, you can keep your balls -- PERIOD!" (wink, wink)

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1843 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 5:14:27 PM
Oh, indeed I do.

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1055 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 1:58:53 PM
If you say so...

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1843 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 1:39:02 PM
@llaa: Again, you have yet to give me any links to back up what you claimed about the information in the article being wrong.


"If Barak Obama is a liberal to you then liberalism has been eaten alive by television media new speak."



Ah, ok, so you see him as a conservative then? you see Barack Obama a self described liberal democrat, as a conservative? WHAT!?

And as far as the drug trials are concerned, the same drug doesn't work equally for all people ever. Even certain people are allergic to penicillin.
But yes, you're still making my point for me that the variety of drugs a doctor could use was to treat an ailment was limited because state needing to focus more on the money than the patient.
It isn't the patient and doctor creating the treatment plan it is the state and their budget.

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1055 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 12:53:49 PM
@HumanAction

If you say so...

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1055 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 12:52:11 PM
richanddead

n 2008, bevacizumab cost Medicare only $20 million for about 480,000 injections, while ranibizumab (Lucentis) cost Medicare $537 million for only 337,000 injections.[7"> A small study showed no superior effect of ranibizumab versus bevacizumab in direct comparison. See the New England Journal Article showing that both are efficient. I dont blame the British for not using the drug its expensive and just as efficient as a generic cheaper drug.



NEJM Study Results

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 12:50:25 PM
@llaa

From FiscalFizzle:

"The main difference with HDHPs is that most costs, up to your deductible, are covered by you out of pocket. There are no doctor "co-pays" like with a traditional plan. Once you reach your deductible, however, all valid costs are completely covered.

HDHPs are therefore a form of "catastrophic insurance," where day-to-day costs are covered by you, and the insurance plan kicks in when something major occurs ("major" being anything over your deductible limit)."

I can keep doing this. You're simply wrong about how an HDHP works. I've used it for years and this is how it works.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 12:45:13 PM
@llaa

From United Healthcare:

"With a high deductible health plan (HDHP), you pay monthly premiums as you would with a traditional health plan. Covered preventive care services may be paid up to 100 percent. When you need medical care or prescriptions, you will pay the actual cost of those services out of your pocket until you have paid up to your deductible. With an HDHP, you have more control over how your money is spent.

After you reach your deductible, the plan will pay most of your costs, usually as a larger percentage. This is called coinsurance. For example, a plan will pay 80 percent of the cost of a bill and you will pay the remaining 20 percent.

An HDHP will also protect you with an annual limit on what you would pay out of your pocket. This protection is called the out-of-pocket maximum. The out-of-pocket maximum includes your deductible payments and coinsurance payments."

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1055 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 12:44:30 PM
5cats - Software like Fedora worked when it came out but it wasn't perfect.

Check out how many patches were made to the os.

"f9 has 9151 patches in 5547 src rpms
1.64972056967730304669 patches per srpm"

link

Looks like 9000+ reasons that parts of the software were not working as intended or needed o be corrected. I say, dont believe the hype and wait till April next year to jump in the "it ain't working" peanuts gallery.

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1055 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 12:34:28 PM
@RichandDead

I dont know what a liberal is anymore. The way you use the word its like a dirty word. I think its a very meaningless word the way its used these days. If Barak Obama is a liberal to you then liberalism has been eaten alive by television media new speak.

llaa
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1055 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 12:30:26 PM
oh vey, too many responses cant... handle... the... time spent...responding... will try anyway...

@humanAction - Check out this link, it will explain again what Annual Limitations Are

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1843 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 8:27:17 AM
Also most single-payer systems have huge expensive bureaucracies that delay the approval of new drugs, preventing patients from using them. Alice Mahon, the former member of the British parliament is a good example of this. She had macular degeneration and although the drug to treat it "Lucentis" was available in other countries, yet the "NICE" a division of the British National Health Service had not yet approved it and by the time they finally did she had lost most of her vision, so she sued, creating more costs.

6. It not only creates a welfare state but also an American socialism. Which triggers a whole other debate.

But I will agree that the single payer system is the point of Obamacare as Harry Reid already said.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1843 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 8:25:05 AM
4. It also rations the type of treatment. In a single payer system to limit costs from overcare from a government funded fee-for-service basis. Physicians would need to compare the use of tests and procedures to their peers with similar patients. Therefore medical decisions would need to fall into a regimented pattern as well as within a spending target. And if you've ever tried a drug that works on you but not your friend you can understand, in principle anyway, why that is bad.

5. Although medical research would not disappear entirely, it would certainly be reduced. The U.S. Commerce Department found that drug price controls in other single-payer nations reduced annual investment in pharmaceuticals by $5-8 billion, resulting in 3 to 4 fewer drugs being launched each year. Again more studies if you want them.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1843 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 8:24:51 AM
2. The costs are extreme, especially with our legal system that makes doctors take tons of tests for unlikely ailments just to cover themselves against lawsuits. Aswell despite that they are the ones paying for it in their taxes. People perceive that others are paying for their treatments. When people perceive that someone else is paying for something, they tend to overuse it, adding to the expense and wait times. This only increase with the population and Since America is the 3rd most populated country on earth, it exaggerates these effects.

3. The quality of healthcare would go down. To simplify simply look at the public schools and how they are run in comparison to private ones. Yet if you want me expand on this or provide a link to a study in one the single payer countries that shows this, I definitely can if you want. I have one from London in fact.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1843 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 8:24:41 AM
@normalfreak2: I could go on and on, but to not go on a 15-20 post rant let me just give the main points, ok. If you want more detail to any of them then I up for providing details. Yet I do need to go to the park with my dogs later so I might take a few seconds to answer.

1. While everyone would have healthcare, it limits the access to it via waiting lists to surgeries and diagnostic procedures and by even canceling surgeries. And people even die on these waiting lists waiting for important surgeries. Canada, Britain, Sweden, ect. all have this effect with their systems. In this study from where you were link they found 21% of people on the waiting list for lung cancer treatment become incurable and die. I can show other studies if you're from somewhere else but I don't want to ramble too much here.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24965 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 7:41:12 AM
Do you think its bad if I call Rob Ford a crack smoking alcoholic, eh?

@llaa: Why would I care? He's over 1,000 miles away! America is 60 miles away. YOU do the math!

If you think "name calling" is a valid form of argument? Well that's very liberal of you...

Is "Linux Fedora 9" a WEBSITE? Apples and Orangutans dude... I obviously "misspoke" when I included all software
And anyhow: did Fedora-9 work within the first 60 days?? Yes or no?
Were people forced BY LAW to buy Fedora-9?

& etc.

Lowering taxes = fascism? Oy vey!

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 6:55:15 AM
@normalfreak

in other news the GOP controlled House passed a bill that repeals most of the restrictions put in place on financial institutions that caused the financial crisis.

By "institutions that caused the financial crisis" are you referencing the federal government? After all, essentially every objective source blames the government (and fed) for the recession.

How is a Single payer system that bad?

In which aspect? Obviously there's the Constitutionality of it. Otherwise, it's expensive. Now I know that the US has a more expensive system; however, the top ten most expensive nations in terms of healthcare/capita use third-party payer (which includes single payer) health insurance schemes. That's a very good indication that such systems are very expensive.

Better to go with either free market or subsidized pay-per-service (Hong Kong).


normalfreak2
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1662 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 6:47:51 AM
How is a Single payer system that bad? I spend half a year in London, CA for work. When I go hunting/fishing or do anything outdoors I have nothing to worry about. In fact I've broken my foot Off roading, had bruised ribs, been in an accident. My medical bills in Canada are ZERO ZILCH NADA. Now I realize I'm taxed more but honestly it's not that big of a difference. You pay more in "sin tax". Since I'm a relatively boring individual this affects me little. It indirectly targets the people that will most likely need healthcare in their older years. The system pays for itself from what I can tell.

The best part is you can still get your own doctor or if you don't like the care you have options. It's just basic Healthcare is guaranteed . I'm sorry but after spending considerable amounts of the past 15 years in both countries I don't see why we fuss over single payer so much.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1843 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 6:41:12 AM
(cont)

But no I don't find anything you said there to be true or cited, except the part where you state what your argument is. But not even your source, biased as it is, refutes this article or supports what you claimed; "The article is PR for when private insurers will request for an increase in either govt. subsidized payment or end user premium rate increases." In fact, no where does it state that the Insurers are manipulating numbers or fomenting PR for more subsides, it simply say they got over a trillion dollars in subsidies because of how Obamacare is already written.

normalfreak2
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1662 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 6:41:07 AM
in other news the GOP controlled House passed a bill that repeals most of the restrictions put in place on financial institutions that caused the financial crisis. Law written by and for Lobbyist. I-A-B Conservatives quiet about that vocal about healthcare for all even though I admit there are definitely issues with the ACA. Love the priorities. <3

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1843 Posts
Friday, November 08, 2013 6:40:25 AM
(cont)
Congress was the one who gave them these abilities because if they didn't insurance companies wouldn't enter period. They would become insolvent, would lose their companies, and would become liable to thousands of lawsuits if they entered without calculating the risk.
As I said before that would help no one, and hurt us all. It is very likely that it would even put us back into a recession. The federal government would have to pick up the tab and bail them out and people would be screaming about them like they did the "predatory loans."

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