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To The Point [Pic]

Hits: 7300 | Rating: (3.5) | Category: Misc. | Added by: Sweepofdeath
Page: 1 2    Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Friday, October 18, 2013 4:16:12 AM
I'm setting my stopwatch to see how long it takes for someone to call me a liberal and say I'm deaf to facts.

Despite all this (admittedly back of the envelope) working out below.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Friday, October 18, 2013 4:13:50 AM
@HolyGod

Google searching tells me that in 2005 there were 108,800,000 households in the US.

With than 7,500 burglaries with strangers with guns where any sort of violence occurred.

That's a 0.0068% chance per year of it happening per household.

The number of gun-related suicides in the USA for the same year was (according to my Googling) 16,869.

That's a 0.016% chance of someone killing themselves in your home with a gun. And that's not even factoring in the skew towards it happening in households with guns.

The odds of someone killing themselves intentionally with a gun in your home are 2.35 times higher than the odds of a stranger breaking into the home and hurting someone with a gun.

And I haven't even touched accidental shootings, etc.

People are subjecting themselves to something with GREATER risk to defend themselves against something with LESSER risk. This is madness.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Friday, October 18, 2013 3:46:46 AM
*ponders*

Should I armour-plate my roof? You know, in case a meteorite hits my house and crushes me to death in my sleep?

I know the armour-plate would be heavy and may collapse the roof and crush me to death anyway. But it's worth the risk to defend against meteorites.

After all, it's worth the risk having a gun in the house that might get picked up and used against a loved one in the heat of an argument, or picked up and used against myself in the depths of a depressed mood that otherwise might only have resulted in listening to some Tool and moping...

...because what if some crazed lunatic breaks in to kill me? It's never happened to me before, nor to any of my friends, family, colleagues, acquaintances...

...but, you know, it MIGHT happen!

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Friday, October 18, 2013 3:42:55 AM
I mean, people discuss it like it's a distinct looming threat that's likely to happen.

I can understand making precautions against threats. That's sensible. But...isn't it wise to be appropriate with your level of precaution, based on the likelihood of the event?

I could dig a moat around my house and fill it with petrol and set it alight. That'd protect me against home invaders alright. But I suspect most people would suggest I'm overreacting.

Scale that back a bit, and you might understand why many people consider bringing a gun into a home (especially one with children) might be a dangerous overreaction to a potentially very unlikely threat (home invasion).

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Friday, October 18, 2013 3:39:33 AM
How many of you have actually had someone break into your home when you yourself were home?

How big of a threat is it, really? Common? Uncommon?

Reignblazer
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2235 Posts
Friday, October 18, 2013 12:48:33 AM
ITT: Turdburglar aka The Batman

spanerbulb
Male, 30-39, Europe
 1247 Posts
Friday, October 18, 2013 12:44:01 AM
Nothing inside is worth killing for.

Draculya
Male, 40-49, Asia
 12337 Posts
Friday, October 18, 2013 12:22:39 AM
@HolyGod I agree that firearms possession for home-defence is a fantasy. My brother owns a huge assortment of firearms which he justifies as being for the zombie apocalypse. In truth there is about as much chance of his being burgled by a gunman in his neighbourhood as a home invasion by a hoard of brain hungry undead. I see it like the people who prepare a carry-on bug out bag in case their Airbus goes down in the wilderness.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25760 Posts
Thursday, October 17, 2013 10:49:57 PM
Some people would relish the chance to go shoot someone who broke into their house. I'm not one of them. That is all I meant.


@HolyGod: The VAST majority of US gun owners agree with you! The vast majority of "gun defences" don't even have a shot fired!

The NRA completely agrees: don't fire unless you absolutely have to!

I'd agree too, but we Canadians aren't allowed to defend ourselves...

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:38:54 PM
turdburglar

"The burglar sees you and murders (most likely) or runs (less likely)"

Here are some facts to destroy that statement:

U.S. Department of Justice

An estimated 3.7 million household burglaries occurred each year from 2003 through 2007

In about 28% of these burglaries, a household member was present during the burglary.

Seven percent (266,560) involved some form of violent victimization

In 12 percent of violent household burglaries offender possessed a firearm.

About 23 percent of these firearm-related burglaries were committed by a stranger.

So out of 3.7 MILLION burglaries less than 7,500 were strangers with guns where any sort of violence occurred.

.19%

I'm not killing someone for a .19% chance.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:28:25 PM
Turdburglar

"There is no time to gather the family into a locked room and watch what happens. The burglar sees you and murders (most likely) or runs (less likely) either way there is no waiting to see what happens."

I live in a 4,000 sq foot house. All the bedrooms are upstairs right next to each other. If someone broke in and woke me up I would easily be able to get the kids into another room without the robber seeing me.

I guess I just imagine it is at night, if it is during the day than obviously that isn't the case.

You really think a robber is more likely to murder an entire family than run? I have to believe it is OVERWHELMINGLY in the other direction. I doubt most robbers are even armed.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:23:42 PM
turdburglar

"We all know that simple possessions in the house aren't worth a life."

Bulls.hit. Some people DO NOT believe that. Some people will shoot a guy in the back on his way out the door with a tv.

"you are an idiot if you let someone break in and do nothing"

If I can safely get my family into a locked room upstairs and sit in front of the door with my gun aimed, that is what I would do. Insurance will take care of anything else.

Some people would sneak downstairs and try to shoot the robber. Morally I could never take a life unless it was a direct threat to me or someone else. A robber downstairs trying to be quiet doesn't qualify.

The moment they open the door upstairs they are dead.

"In reality you shoot or 1/4 of a second you or your child is dead. "

You really think most robbers are even armed? Let alone ready to kill a child?

turdburglar
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3678 Posts
Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:19:31 PM

If someone broke into my house at night I would get my gun and then I would get my children and girlfriend into a locked room with me while I called the police.


You live in a fantasy world. Either the robber would leave, or murder your entire family. There is no time to gather the family into a locked room and watch what happens. The burglar sees you and murders (most likely) or runs (less likely) either way there is no waiting to see what happens.

You owe it to your family to be a man. Do not gamble their lives. The intruder doesn't deserve the odds you provide.



turdburglar
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3678 Posts
Thursday, October 17, 2013 9:14:09 PM
HG - don't live in a fantasy world. We all know that simple possessions in the house aren't worth a life. It isn't about the possessions...It's about you and your family's security. Every robber, no matter what the age, knows that they put their life on the line when breaking into a home. If you shoot, you have no responsibility to feel bad. You probably will, but regardless, you are an idiot if you let someone break in and do nothing. As a matter of fact, I submit that you have done the community a disservice. If you don't shoot, you are putting other innocent people at risk of being robbed and murdered.

The real truth is that things happen so fast you don't have the luxury of watching to see if he just leaves. In reality you shoot or 1/4 of a second you or your child is dead. Don't gamble with your family's life. If you do, you deserve what happens. Don't think we live in a society where others are like you. They will kill you with no remorse.


OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14431 Posts
Thursday, October 17, 2013 7:53:11 PM
"My neighbor, on the other hand, is a big supporter of gun control and is completely unarmed."

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Thursday, October 17, 2013 7:46:00 PM
MrPeabody

"HG the man in the video was intending to rob the home, not murder anyone, but that was the result."

Absolutely. I wish she would have had a gun and killed him.

You know my point though. Most home invasions do not include physical attacks. Most thieves would run.

If someone broke into my house at night I would get my gun and then I would get my children and girlfriend into a locked room with me while I called the police.

Some people would relish the chance to go shoot someone who broke into their house. I'm not one of them. That is all I meant.

MrPeabody
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1795 Posts
Thursday, October 17, 2013 7:37:29 PM
@HG the man in the video was intending to rob the home, not murder anyone, but that was the result.

MrPeabody
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1795 Posts
Thursday, October 17, 2013 7:35:09 PM
@HG

Might I remind you of this

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Thursday, October 17, 2013 7:34:27 PM
MrPeabody

"Your wife and kids?"

Fair enough I suppose, although that would "nobody" not "nothing".

I would kill someone if they tried to hurt me, my girlfriend, or my kids. It is why I have a gun. It is why I routinely practice with it. However I would not kill someone over a TV or a playstation.

Obviously this sign is talking about prospective thieves not people coming in on a random murder spree.

MrPeabody
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1795 Posts
Thursday, October 17, 2013 7:24:26 PM
I would also agree that nothing inside is worth killing for, but that's just me.


Your wife and kids?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Thursday, October 17, 2013 7:07:11 PM
I totally agree.

I would also agree that nothing inside is worth killing for, but that's just me.

Sweepofdeath
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 259 Posts
Thursday, October 17, 2013 6:16:00 PM
Link: To The Point [Pic] [Rate Link] - No mincing of words. Concise.

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