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Lynn Jenkins (R) [Pic]

Hits: 10289 | Rating: (2.3) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: elkingo
Page: 13 4 5 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3945 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:51:52 AM
Read this about Park Shurdowns.

Obama is hiring guards to keep parks closed at the tune of 50k a year. It is simply stupid that Obama is holding parks hostage, when it never had to be that way in the past during a shutdown.

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3945 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:47:10 AM
"Cut the grass? Pull the weeds? Pick up the litter? Patch and repair wear and tear to the paving? Secure and monitor it against vandals at night?"

It requires no park rangers when open. That was the point I was trying to make.

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3402 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:45:03 AM
"WW2 Monument - required NO ONE to operate, and costs NOTHING to maintain."

4.4 million people visit that monument every year. If 4 million people visited your house, don't you think you'd need to clean up after them every once in a while?

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:44:29 AM
@Musuko

...those things seem horrible to me.

Sure, but is it OK to hurt others to prevent this natural differences? I don't think so. I don't think it's ever OK and morally justifiable to take something that is not mine by force.

Additionally, there are wide-reaching consequences in doing so. One of which is economic turmoil and recession.

The best way to help those people who are disadvantaged is to promote the economy and to shift the entire line upwards. The worst way is to try and bring the rest of the line down.

The American dream...needs to be more realistic, and more attainable.

This I agree with entirely.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:40:08 AM
@elkingo

"WW2 Monument - required NO ONE to operate, and costs NOTHING to maintain"

Cut the grass? Pull the weeds? Pick up the litter? Patch and repair wear and tear to the paving? Secure and monitor it against vandals at night?

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:39:41 AM
@Musuko

Enough people will be in the path of that bomb through no fault of their own, and that still makes it a tragedy best avoided in my eyes.

While I agree with the sentiment, where we differ is that I do not think that it can be avoided. One way or another, either we stay stagnated or we deal with a correction.

Then that'd be a terrible shame, and no reason not to keep searching for it.

I agree; I'm merely suggesting that the precedent exists that no such solution can be had.

where the only factor governing your attainment of happiness is your own effort towards it

Hey now, you're sounding like me. I agree entirely with this. Where we differ is how we think it can be exacted. I think that indebting future generations so that we can live more lavishly than we can afford breaks this rule.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:37:57 AM
@HumanAction

To be denied the ability to obtain your own happiness through something outside of your control, such as the abilities you were born with, or the wealth of your parents, or the turmoil of the economy...

...those things seem horrible to me.

Similarly, I find it horrible for certain kinds of happiness to be promoted unreleastically; telling everyone that they can become the president one day (as one extreme), or convincing people to give millionaires an easy ride on taxes because they too can become a millionaire one day.

The American dream...needs to be more realistic, and more attainable. It should be less about deluding a street sweeper into thinking he can be a millionaire, and more about making sweeping streets a job a man can be happy doing.

Oh dear, I got sidetracked. Sorry. (vote for me).

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3945 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:36:35 AM
"I got the sense that you would really prefer to see as much of the goverment shut down as possible for as long as possible. True?"

Can I answer this one?

Hell, to the yes. I am a radical conservative who believes the less government we have, the better.

For example: WW2 Monument - required NO ONE to operate, and costs NOTHING to maintain. To close, it required gubment "park rangers".

I don't need the government to tell me when, how, and why I can walk around and look at stuff.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:32:30 AM
@HumanAction

"Sure, but in this case you most likely made choices that put you in the bombs path. It's not randomly/arbitrarily chosen."

None of us have supreme control over our own lives. We are all at least partially at the mercy of dumb luck, and the choices of others.

Enough people will be in the path of that bomb through no fault of their own, and that still makes it a tragedy best avoided in my eyes.

"Well, what if a system doesn't exist that has no losers?"

Then that'd be a terrible shame, and no reason not to keep searching for it.

That whole persuit of happiness thing. I've always taken it to mean the provision of a fair playing field, where the only factor governing your attainment of happiness is your own effort towards it.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:32:06 AM
@Squrlz

Are you saying you would prefer to see 90% of the federal government permanently shut down?

Absolutely.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:31:10 AM
@ HumanAction:

From current levels, I would prefer to see the federal government at about 10% with the states taking up the slack.

Allow me to clarify here: Are you saying you would prefer to see 90% of the federal government permanently shut down?

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:27:38 AM
@Squrlz

You think it would be intelligent to set a precedent for the minority to pick and choose which portions of the government they restore?!

I think they're being intellectually dishonest - at best. I don't think it is appropriate to criticize Republicans over people not being paid, and then turn around and refuse to vote on a bill that would do just that. Like I said, I have no other reasonable explanation other than they are trying to make it "hurt" more.

True?

As much as can be responsibly limited. Like I said before, 85% of the government is still there; this is hardly a shutdown. From current levels, I would prefer to see the federal government at about 10% with the states taking up the slack.

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3945 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:26:51 AM
@Squrlz4Sale

I see... I thought he was talking about the CR being a bill; and not the ACA Law.

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3945 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:24:49 AM
@Musuko42 - Yes, they did gain additional power, and a lot of it. All of the politicians fighting against this now, are keeping their campaign promises to fight it if elected.

It basically boils down to the people do not want it because it is a very poorly written law, with no plan to enact it or pay for it.

TEA Party stands for Taxed Enough Already Party. Basically that is what it boils down to. We are tired of being taxed to death to the point we cannot even sustain ourselves.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:23:52 AM
@Musuko

The Hiroshima option. Benefits more people in the long run.

Exactly.

But sucks to be you if you're one of those who happens to be under the bomb.

Sure, but in this case you most likely made choices that put you in the bombs path. It's not randomly/arbitrarily chosen.

I really don't like any system that inherently plans for casualties.

Well, what if a system doesn't exist that has no losers? The precedent certainly suggests that this is the case.

whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3744 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:21:30 AM
There actually is a way to force Boehner to put the bill up for a vote. I've never heard of it before but it's called a Discharge Petition.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:09:42 AM
@ HumanAction:

These bills all allow temporary funding for various aspects of the government and DO NOT MENTION OBAMACARE. Reid, and the Senate, are blocking them.

~facepaw~ OF COURSE he's blocking them. You think it would be intelligent to set a precedent for the minority to pick and choose which portions of the government they restore?!

Honestly.

Let's get it out in the open, HumanAction. From our conversation last night, I got the sense that you would really prefer to see as much of the goverment shut down as possible for as long as possible. True?

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:08:05 AM
@HumanAction

"I believe that, in terms of net loss, the less damaging option is to let the bottom drop out so that we can recover now."

The Hiroshima option. Benefits more people in the long run.

But sucks to be you if you're one of those who happens to be under the bomb.

I really don't like any system that inherently plans for casualties.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:06:44 AM
@Squrlz4Sale

Yeah, that. There must surely be a way of forcing a getting past the blockade of one man. The whole checks and balances thing.

Hah, and yeah I'm aware the same argument can be, and is, used against Obama. It's funny how there's parallels all over the place in this mess.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:05:34 AM
@Musuko

Surely the economy exists to serve humanity, not the other way around.

I agree entirely. It appears we merely disagree about the means in which this can be most successfully achieved.

I believe that, in terms of net loss, the less damaging option is to let the bottom drop out so that we can recover now. In my opinion, the only other option it to continue in this recession indefinitely, and still have the bottom drop out later.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:04:56 AM
@HumanAction

"The majority leader of both Congresses has the responsibility to call a vote on proposed bills. If they refuse to do so, then they effectively stop the bill."

That sounds like a lot of power in one person's hands, and we're witnessing the abuse (depending on your persepective) of it right now.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:03:01 AM
@ Musuko: *Now* you're getting it. You ask a great question. It's a matter of protocol and a number of Republicans are said to be exploring a way to hold the vote even if it's against the Speaker of the House's wishes.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2850 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:02:36 AM
@HumanAction

"The best thing they can do is to let the bottom drop out, get out of the way, and let the market recover naturally."

That way sounds like it would involve a lot of human casualities.

Surely the economy exists to serve humanity, not the other way around.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 10:00:04 AM
@Musuko

Why on earth is one person even able to block votes like that?

The majority leader of both Congresses has the responsibility to call a vote on proposed bills. If they refuse to do so, then they effectively stop the bill.

That being said, if the House truly wanted to vote, they could depose Boehner and replace him. As we've seen though, it doesn't appear that they have the numbers to do so. The logical conclusion, then, is that Boehner is blocking the vote with the support of the House.

whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3744 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 9:55:14 AM
@5Cats - "During which time the criminals will just sit around?"

No one reloads out in the open, you take cover for the second or two it takes to reload. Leaving yourself exposed like that in the middle of a fight is a good way to get killed.

"Shooting shotguns into the air until they're empty if you THINK criminals are threatening you?"

The sound of a shotgun blast is enough to stop many would-be criminals, making them sh*t their pants and run away. In many cases they're turning to crime in desperation and are just as scared, if not more scared, than the person they attempt to steal from.

"Y R U So grumpy lately?"

I'm not being grumpy at all, you're mistaken. I'm calmly stating my side of the argument and/or answering your questions to the best of my ability. I apologize if my best is not good enough for you, you don't have to be a grump about it.

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