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Not More Than 20 Years [Pic]

Hits: 5483 | Rating: (2.4) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: Squrlz4Sale
Page: 1 2 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Draculya
Male, 40-49, Asia
 12317 Posts
Friday, October 11, 2013 8:30:02 PM
Extrajudicial Drone Strike

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25647 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 12:58:16 PM
@Squrlz4: Your prognostication is 'possible' but MY crystal ball sees things differently:

1 Obama will cave! He WILL agree to changes AND a one-year delay.
He will then claim victory! How he <<Stared Down The Tea Party... Chicago Style>> and rate himself the Best President In Modern History!

Oh wait! he already DID rate himself the best!

2 'Big Money' WANTS the ACA! They'll make BILLIONS MORE in profits! If Boehner succeeds, THEN he's in trouble! You think the Tea Party = Big Money? Oy Vey! The GOP may win the ACA fight, but will cave in the budget battle, sadly.

3 Obama is MORE concerned with his image than he is of doing his sworn duty. At least you've noticed this... that's a start!

Kalimata
Male, 30-39, Canada
 660 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 12:07:24 PM
I cannot believe the depths that this thread has sunk to...

Seriously, folks, this is an IAB thread about politics, Squrlz and Human what gives you two the right to discuss this issue without slander, rage, insults, and without Oldollie squawking about the communists and socialists?

I'm ashamed for all of you who are being reasonable and respectful...

Oh wait, I mean the total opposite.

papajon0s1
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 579 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 11:35:42 AM
Oh Good Lord puuuhhhllleeaase!!!!! Spare me! You could put Obama up dozens of times over! And for that matter any number of other politicians of both parties!

Big_And_Tall
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 36 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 9:01:04 AM
So...where's the president in that picture???

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 6:19:56 AM
@LemonCurry

why do we add extra numbers?

Lol. It's just habit for me. I write SOPs frequently and always use that format.

Shelworth
Male, 50-59, Western US
 329 Posts
Thursday, October 10, 2013 5:02:45 AM
Read that, then think of all the crap Obama's pulled with picking and choosing which laws to enforce...

LemonCurry
Male, 40-49, Asia
 1026 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 9:37:02 PM
sorry, unrelated:

"... who opted for the eight (8) shutdowns ..."
--------
why do we add extra numbers? do we think people can't read the word (but then they wouldn't understand the sentence anyway)? or is it a check sum to make sure that the sentence is still in order?

does anyone every write " ... eight (9) ... " see whether people are really paying attention?

djwajda
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 851 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 6:55:34 PM
I gotta say I'm impressed at this actual...debate.

Refreshing not to read people going for the jugular over this stuff.


HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 3:35:59 PM
@Squrlz

Indeed it will. As always, it's nice to get someone else's perspective.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 3:15:58 PM
@ HumanAction: Well, time will tell on all this, won't it? Nice chatting with you. Time for dinner here. TTYL

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 3:13:36 PM
@Squrlz

I can't conceive of this going much past a default.

I don't see it coming to that. Even if they don't raise the debt limit (which is highly unlikely, IMHO), there is still plenty of tax dollars to make the interest payments on a month-to-month basis - with appropriate cuts elsewhere.

If - and it's a big if - it comes to that and the country defaults, then I would expect to see the government shut down indefinitely. At that point, there's no more leverage and no more reason to end it.

As for Boehner, I think he's going to be fine. I don't predict he'll lose his seat. I haven't seen enough backlash from Republicans to make me think otherwise. Then again, I also don't think the GOP went into this fight expecting to kill Obamacare to begin with, so I suppose my answer is a bit biased in that regard.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 3:05:36 PM
Well, per your response, interesting--but we have a different take. I think this is VERY much about Obamacare; I don't think those 30 Tea Partiers are taking part in any ploy. They were ELECTED by gerrymandered districts to stop Obamacare any way possible. It's a fight that Boehner, savvy as he is, didn't want and recognized as a fool's errand; but if he doesn't have the Tea Partiers behind him, he loses the speakership.

I can't conceive of this going much past a default. I work in finance; the repercussions, world-wide, would be enormous (probably more than you can conceive unless you're familiar with bond ratings and mutual fund guidelines--not trying to condescend, but it's a big topic and would take at least another 1,000 char post to touch on).

In your read, what do you see becoming of Boehner? You think he's going to hold onto the speakership?

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 2:59:31 PM
3. Lastly, I don't think Obama thought the GOP and the House were actually willing to go through with it. Strangely, the shutdown is, very generally, exactly what the New Republicans (as I call them) want - less government.

Let's face it, we can't "starve the beast" through tax, debt limits, sequesters, or any of that. So, that only leaves us with the option of shutting down the non-essential parts of the government.

It's actually somewhat brilliant. The New Republicans get an immediate and drastic reduction in the government; meanwhile, the truly sensitive government programs (Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Military) keep on running.

By fighting this make-believe war against Obamacare, the GOP my actually be propping themselves up for a big win on budget reform. I wouldn't be surprised if this dragged on all month.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 2:54:47 PM
2. The GOP doesn't really have anything to lose. Let's face it, they weren't doing well in the polls to begin with; they're essentially down to just their constituents backing them.

Therefore, by forcing the issue, they don't really have anything to lose; it's not like their constituents are going to drop them. On the other hand, they do have the opportunity to lower public opinion of Obama and the Democratic Senate. If they drag this out long enough and play their cards right, they might be able to hurt the Democrats in the polls more than they hurt themselves.

It's a calculated risk.

(Cont.)

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 2:50:48 PM
@Squrlz

Well, that's an interesting take on it. Probably unsurprisingly, I have a very different perspective:

1. I don't think this fight was ever about Obamacare; that's a calculated ploy - a distraction from the real debate, which is the budget. The Republicans are haggling and purposefully sent out a low-ball offer they knew would get refused. They never expected any concessions on Obamacare.

However, they are now finding themselves in relatively good position to get the budget numbers they want. Democrats in the Senate have already agreed upon a budget that is essentially everything the GOP proposed.

They won't even have time to fight the sequester. Once the GOP caves on Obamacare (which they will), then the blame of the still ongoing shutdown could begin to shift to Democrats who oppose the sequester.

(Cont.)

ggolbez
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1945 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 2:50:44 PM
What's the name of that cool §?

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 2:43:05 PM
3. So the irony of all this is that the most important thing Obama will do in his presidency--avoid allowing a precedent for a small faction to overturn law that's been settled by majority rule--he'll do because of vanity and ego--yet it will be recorded in the history books as an act of bravery and statesmanship. Boehner could also grab a bit of glory if he plays his cards right--"He surrendered his speakership for the good of the country"--when in fact his arm was being twisted to the point of breaking by Big Insurance and then Big Finance.

So there you have it: my read on the situation.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 2:37:27 PM
2. Boehner's going to fall on his sword. Why? Because Big Money pulls the strings, particularly with the GOP. All those insurance companies that are profiting MASSIVELY from the mandate--you thing *they're* OK with the Tea Partiers delaying or gutting that mandate? Ha! Every non-Tea-Party Republican in Congress is being treated to repeated @asswhippings by the Big Boys. We already see the fractures in the ranks. This will play out uncomfortably because Boehner is going to play for time as long as he can hoping he can find a way out without losing the speakership. Will he be able to find an exit that saves his scalp? Maybe: I give him a 50-50 chance of somehow being able to deflect the Tea Partiers' wrath. How long will it take before Boehner blinks? I expect we'll be going up to the 15th or 16th--at which point the markets start to tank and the Big Money pressure on Boehner becomes unbearable.

(Cont'd)

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 2:31:54 PM
@ HumanAction: All right, here we go.

1. Obama won't give in an INCH on Obamacare. It's a matter of legacy and pride and Obama's a bit of an egomaniac. (Did you know I don't particularly like him? The IAB crowd wrongly has been assuming I'm a big fan, but that's yet another misunderstanding--but I digress.) The GOP misread this because Obama has ALWAYS given in previously, as with the stimulus. Why? Because, at heart, he's more a centrist than a liberal; he's more interested in making a name for himself in the history books as The Grand Bargainer than in being a progressive (which goes to show how off the mark all those nitwits are who claim he's a socialist--ha!--if only). Anyway, point #1 is that Obama won't be budging. Aside from some flexibility on the length of the CR, he's set in stone. The GOP misread this one massively. This is about legacy and pride and Obama's signature legislation. Fuhgeddaboudit.

(Cont'd)

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 2:25:24 PM
@Squrlz

Go for it. You tell me yours, and I'll tell you mine.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 2:01:46 PM
@ HumanAction and 5Cats: I can tell you both exactly how this is going to play out. It's a no-brainer. HumanAction, you're smart enough and mentally flexible enough that I think you'll be able to accept it. 5Cats' ability to accept a truth he'll find uncomfortable I'm much less sure of.

Lemme know if you want my read on this, HumanAction.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 1:58:16 PM
@ 5Cats: Ay yi yi. You're arguing against something in error because you misunderstood something (again).

I am a fervent supporter of the citizens' rights to free speech and peacable assembly. *Sedition*, in the context of this graphic, is referring to the Tea Party congresspersons who are now trying to hinder or delay the execution of settled law by attaching a proviso for its undoing to a piece of unrelated must-pass legislation.

broizfam
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 3474 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 1:42:28 PM
@HumanAction,
"this is a ridiculous stretch of the word "force" within the context given"

I'm no Republican but I have to agree with you here. This was not so much an application of force than a refusal to act. When there are major budget impasses I can understand that the difficulty may lead to a shutdown. This is a case in which a previously passed and approved law has stuck in someone's craw and they've decided to cause a shutdown until they get their way, just like any recalcitrant, uncooperative child. The fact that something more or less similar happened at times in the past because of the Democrats (I'm not a Democrat, either) doesn't make it any less stupid, infantile and irresponsible this time. They don't like a law (I can understand that) that was passed on their watch so they'll punish the coutry until the President submits? F*kking idiots!

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25647 Posts
Wednesday, October 09, 2013 1:36:42 PM
"We have to pass the Bill to find out what's in it" - Nancy Pelosi

Now that Americans KNOW what's in it? They don't like it! They have a right to request it be CHANGED... but Obama said NO NEGOTIATIONS PERIOD.

How many times can you ignore this fact?

Republican House: legally doing it's job!
Democrat Senate: refusing to vote! (also legal)
Obama: refusing to even TALK about it!

The Great Orator! The Great Negotiator! NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER!

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