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Current Budget Crisis Was Planned Months Ago?[Pic+

Hits: 6752 | Rating: (2.6) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: Stinkytoes
Page: 13 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16738 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 3:26:17 PM
HG: Are you looking at this? CBO May 2013 Estimate of ACA and scroll down to page 2 "Gross Cost of Coverage Provisions" Total 2014-2023 - 1,798 Billion dollars. And that amount is rising due to Obama's delay of the employer mandate.

"Down from 55 Million"

That's still less than half the uninsured, that's not what I would call successful.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13145 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 12:03:42 PM
This plan gives the IRS more power do you really think giving the IRS more power is a wise choice shouldn't we be doing the opposite there considering their track record?

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3109 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 11:42:07 AM
Also, because managed care pays less per service, 4 years ago I had joined with two other therapists and we had 86 children signed up for a summer program for their mental health needs.

This year I struggled to keep 6 in attendance because my agency couldn't afford support staff.

Obamacare will simply be more of the same.

There is an old saying that applies here: "If it sounds to good to be true... It probably is." Why risk children and people's health just to give Obama a "signature" law?

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3109 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 11:38:35 AM
I, for one, am a tax paying citizen.

I protest the ACA because it will do two things to me:

1. Harm coverage or raise cost to me personally.

2. Lessen the quality of service I can provide my clients.

If you would like for me to explain how it will lessen services I provide, I would be glad to in a simple story:

Medicaid here was sent to managed care companies to "save money". They used that "saved money" to add several thousands more to the insurance. So now, the average case load is 45-55 instead of what it was three years ago: 28-32

More people served simply equals less quality of services and less frequent services.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 11:20:24 AM
@5Cats

"@Musuko42: Don't encourage him! His "low blows" and personal assaults are an indication that he has NOTHING to support his case. At least you were "man enough" to admit your mistake in the whole "funding belongs to the House" thing Unlike SOME people around here..."

I appreciate the recognition.

But HolyGod does have a good point, and it isn't a low blow: that you and CrakrJak benefit from free (at the point of use) government healthcare provision, and speak so strongly against it, is a relevant point of discussion.

Like pro-lifers who get abortions themselves, or anti-gay preachers who use rentboys. That's how it comes across, and it's a hypocrisy that could do with explaining.

How do you reconcile your personal situation with your publicly-stated view?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4824 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 11:14:22 AM
5Cats

"Obama's policies have ADDED over 10 million uninsured since he took office"

See this is a stat. There shouldn't be any wiggle room or debate right?

According to the census bureau:

In 2008 15.4% of Americans were uninsured, 46.3 million people

In 2012 15.4% of Americans were uninsured, 48 million people

Let's see if you can do the math on that. Don't let facts f.uck up your argument. Let's see if you are "man enough to admit your mistake".

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4824 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 11:04:12 AM
5Cats

"His "low blows" and personal assaults are an indication that he has NOTHING to support his case."

It isn't a low blow to say you and crakr are on government provided healthcare. I want that for everyone. YOU GUYS think "government provided" is an insult, not me.

"NOTHING" to support my case other than the links and data I gave you that directly and irrefutably support my case?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24188 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 10:43:40 AM
@HolyGod: Obama's policies have ADDED over 10 million uninsured since he took office, it was LOWER under Bush...

And it will drive UP the cost for an average family, if they ever manage to get signed up that is...

@Musuko42: Don't encourage him! His "low blows" and personal assaults are an indication that he has NOTHING to support his case.

At least you were "man enough" to admit your mistake in the whole "funding belongs to the House" thing Unlike SOME people around here...

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24188 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 10:37:33 AM
an absolute mockery of the entire process that passed Obamacare.


Musuko42: LOLZ! You so funny bro!

>>Negotiated in SECRET! (Obama promised it would be negotiated on live TV for all to watch)
>>No Republican input allowed! (Obama said "We won" He'd promised full bi-partisan negotiations)
>>No one even read the bill before voting! (Obama promised the PUBLIC could read it for at least a week before it was voted on)
>>Even lots of Democrats didn't like it, but were BRIBED to pass it.

Shall I go on? There's lots more.

Because this ransom is, in effect, an attempt to overturn it.

And the other 17 times this has happened? Did those "overturn democracy" in the USA?

The THING that ObamaCare has become, a TAX, is not what was promised OR voted on...

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 10:23:23 AM
@HolyGod

"Does NOBODY ELSE find it hilarious that the 2 people most vocally opposed to healthcare reform and the government getting involved are two guys that live off of government provided healthcare?"

Perhaps its from a sense of personal shame that they act out against it publicly. A case of the lady doth protest too much.

Much the same way as the most vocal, violent homophobic preachers tend to get outed after a scandal with a rentboy; they can't deal with something inside them, so they rage against it when they see it in others.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4824 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 9:47:02 AM
Crakr

"The Weekly Standard has never been profitable, and has remained in business through subsidies from wealthy conservative benefactors such as former owner Rupert Murdoch. Many of the magazine's articles are written by members of conservative think tanks located in Washington, D.C"

"Although the publication had, as of 2006, never been profitable and reputedly lost "more than a million dollars a year", News Corporation head Rupert Murdoch had previously dismissed the idea of selling it."

Why does a poor, unemployed person take their marching orders from a magazine funded by billionaires and written by employees of think tanks funded by billionaires?

Do you not get that their main and virtually SOLE concern is keeping taxes from going up no matter how much it might help other people like yourself?

WAKE THE F.UCK UP. Follow the money. Look at who you take your brainwashing from.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4824 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 9:38:47 AM
Crakr

Stop reading the weekly standard. They are lying to you. It is propaganda by billionaires who don't want their taxes to go up. Wake up sheep. They are spouting DIRECT LIES and then you come in here and repeat them as fact which makes you look like a dumbass.

The CBO report specifically, SPECIFICALLY, says that repealing obamacare will INCREASE BUDGET DEFICITS. Do you understand?

BTW, since you already have your free governmnet healthcare, why don't you shut the f.uck up and let people who have to figure out how to pay for their health insurance and have to pay taxes decide things?

Does NOBODY ELSE find it hilarious that the 2 people most vocally opposed to healthcare reform and the government getting involved are two guys that live off of government provided healthcare?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4824 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 9:34:23 AM
Crakr

"the CBO has stated that 10 years of Obamacare would cost over $2 trillion dollars"

HUH?

"CBO and JCT now estimate that the insurance coverage provisions of the ACA will have a net cost of $1,168"

Oh, BTW, same CBO report....

"On net, CBO and JCT estimate, repealing the ACA would increase federal budget deficits by $109 billion over the 2013 – 2022 period."

"still leave 30 million people uninsured."

Down from 55 Million Dumbass

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16738 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 6:42:39 AM
McGovern: It's worse than that, the CBO has stated that 10 years of Obamacare would cost over $2 trillion dollars and still leave 30 million people uninsured.

So much for Obama's claims of it solving the problem of the uninsured and saving money.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13145 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 6:32:34 AM
It was supposed to be self-sufficient according to Obama, so asking for billions of our tax dollars to fund it is a separate matter.



Billions? From what I see they want to raise the debt ceiling by another 1 trillion! Which is probably for other things too buuut ya gee god forbid people see a problem there. What happenes when they piss through that we keep doing the same? How about they get this debt down like the adults they get their money from would have to?

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5684 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 6:19:03 AM
because it went like this:

Um...no. These were motions to send it to a committee to negotiate. Next time read the link.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 5:56:27 AM
"They did not win the right to fund it with taxpayer dollars through the budget. You see, you can pass a law on anything, but enacting the law is something entirely different. In this case: funding."

Yikes. Okay, I accept defeat and bow out.

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3109 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 5:43:30 AM
"They shouldn't have to ask for it again. That's the POINT! They already won! They shouldn't HAVE TO ask again for something they already won!"

They did not win the right to fund it with taxpayer dollars through the budget. You see, you can pass a law on anything, but enacting the law is something entirely different. In this case: funding. It was supposed to be self-sufficient according to Obama, so asking for billions of our tax dollars to fund it is a separate matter.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16738 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 5:43:27 AM
Musuko: All funding for all programs can and is negotiated. The military was passed into law too, does it not deserve scrutiny, should it be funded above and beyond it's expected cost?

Your, "They shouldn't have to ask for it again. That's the POINT! They already won! They shouldn't HAVE TO ask again for something they already won!", claim is infantile. If the military was funded the way you claim Obamacare should be, you'd be screaming your lungs out that it was too much money wasted.

"..the Tea Party do not have any right to demand negotiation on Obamacare now.." All spending is negotiated, period. To claim that they "have no right to demand negotiation" is total bunk.

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3109 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 5:40:59 AM
@Musuko42 - In America we have this thing we call the Constitution -- in it it gives Congress the right to decide which laws get funded.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13145 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 5:37:37 AM
Goodie! I'll go tell Homeland Security they can step down. Terrorism is a right now.




Pres. likes to use that word too think he needs a dictionary....

drawman61
Male, 50-59, Europe
 5175 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 5:33:32 AM
wheels within wheels

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 5:25:36 AM
@elkingo

"That is to say, democrat attempts have been less about working together, and more about persistently asking for the same thing, and then crying like a b|tch when republicans consistently disagree."

But they ALREADY asked for it and GOT it. It passed through the house and senate and passed into law!

They shouldn't have to ask for it again. That's the POINT! They already won! They shouldn't HAVE TO ask again for something they already won!

How do you not understand that the Tea Party do not have any right to demand negotiation on Obamacare now, any more than a mugger has any right do demand his victim negotiate for the return of his wallet!

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 5:21:39 AM
@elkingo

What right do they have to refuse Obamacare now, after it has already successfully passed through all the hoops required to be passed into law?

It's a bit late for their attempts to negotiate. They had ample opportunity. Doing it now with this method, whilst holding the country hostage, is making an absolute mockery of the entire process that passed Obamacare.

If you think that's a good thing, go ahead and throw out your entire democracy and how your system of government works. Because this ransom is, in effect, an attempt to overturn it.

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3109 Posts
Tuesday, October 08, 2013 5:05:35 AM
That is to say, democrat attempts have been less about working together, and more about persistently asking for the same thing, and then crying like a b|tch when republicans consistently disagree.

It is akin to taking a child to the candy store to make a phone call, and having to constantly tell them to put things back because you can't afford anything.

Page: 13 Next > 

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