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Here's Something We Should Talk About [Pic]

Hits: 12986 | Rating: (3.1) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: Cy
Page: 1 2 3 4 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2742 Posts
Saturday, October 05, 2013 5:20:11 AM
@elkingo

Exactly what HolyGod said, regards profit/pay.

@OldOllie

There are plenty of for-profit companies that none of us here are talking about turning into non-profits. Invest in those. This discussion is about taking one industry and making it a non-profit social service, akin to law enforcement and the rest. We are not talking about making ALL businesses like that.

If I buy a toy from you, I'm happy for you to profit.
If you're solving my crime or putting out my fire or fixing my broken arm, I'd rather that be done as a non-profit service.

The difference between things that improve quality of life, and the things that maintain it.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 11746 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 11:36:07 PM
I'm talking about a business taking in more money than is required to provide a service.

So, HG will you be investing YOUR 401k in a venture that promises not to pay you jack $#!+ for the use of your money (but still might lose it all)?

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 11746 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 11:33:38 PM
Socailism is not all bad...

Tell that to the 100 million people who have been murdered or starved to death under it.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 12739 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 12:47:38 PM
Here's something else we should talk about Obama care doesn't do s hit to lower the cost of these things which is the real problem......

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4469 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 12:17:58 PM
Elkingo

How can someone go to that much schooling and not understand very basic concepts?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4469 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 12:17:00 PM
elkingo

"Why the hell would ANYONE spend that sort of time and money studying something to help others if they couldn't even make enough to pay loans back, or receive some sort of compensation for their life's work?"

I don't think you know what the f.uck "profit" means. Maybe you should have added some business classes in with everything else.

a. The return received on an investment after all charges have been paid.
b. The rate of increase in the net worth of a business enterprise.
c. Income received from investments or property.
d. The amount received for a commodity or service in excess of the original cost.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT TO EARN A WAGE. I'm talking about a business taking in more money than is required to provide a service.

Do you think people at non-profits don't get paid? The director of the red cross makes like $200,000+ a year.

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 2802 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 12:08:49 PM
You people who think you are entitled to something for free off the backs of other people are freaking insane.

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 2802 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 12:08:03 PM
"Police officers and soldiers don't make a profit."

They do in fact receive a wage, but in my opinion it isn't enough. We owe both of them more than we pay; because in the end they pay much more than any of us.

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 2802 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 12:05:53 PM
@Musuko42

I went to school 6 years for my undergraduate dregrees. I graduated top of my class with a Bachelor of Science in Psychology, Religion, and History.

After that, I went to a graduate program for Clinical Psychology where I spent 4 more years producing research, learning assessments, and learning different therapy techniques.

This all cost me 10 years of my life, and approximately 45,000 dollars of debt.

You seriously think I shouldn't be profitable in making people better?

Why the hell would ANYONE spend that sort of time and money studying something to help others if they couldn't even make enough to pay loans back, or receive some sort of compensation for their life's work?

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2742 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 11:29:04 AM
@Phosphoreign

Or to put it more simply: the idea that healthcare creates wealth in our society is an example of the broken window fallacy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_window_fallacy

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2742 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 11:26:42 AM
@Phosphoreign

"try not to confuse an entity that creates things / wealth at a profit, versus things like police, fire fighters, and military, which draw from taxes... they do not generate wealth"

To me, healthcare doesn't generate wealth.

If I go out and buy a TV, I feel wealthier: my life has improved from its previous condition. I have more entertainment. I am happier.

If I go to a doctor, it's because my normal condition has worsened, and I need the doctor to restore me to normal.

Healthcare isn't about improving my quality of life; it's about restoring my existing quality of life when it worsens.

The police, the fire service, they are just the same: they restore my existing quality of life when it worsens (through crime, fire, etc).

That is why I believe healthcare belongs in the "maintainence" pile, paid for by taxes, rather than the "improvement" pile, paid for by my wallet.

Phosphoreign
Male, 30-39, Western US
 272 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 9:24:43 AM
@HolyGod: I have to agree with you. I know some people fall on hard times and need the help, but just looking at this government shutdown, a lot of people who rely on public services will be shut out... I don't, so it doesn't affect me. If you rely on public services indefinitely, you will always be subject to this type of instability!

Phosphoreign
Male, 30-39, Western US
 272 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 9:22:45 AM
@Musuko42: I don't disagree that there are many worthy not for profit things you can do, however, try not to confuse an entity that creates things / wealth at a profit, versus things like police, fire fighters, and military, which draw from taxes... they do not generate wealth... there is no "wage and salary" that magically appears, the money is taken from the profitable to pay for the services.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2742 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 9:07:50 AM
@elkingo

"You forgot, I called you an asshat for thinking I shouldn't make a profit."

Police officers and soldiers don't make a profit. There are plenty of worthwhile jobs that make wage and salary rather than profit.

There's no reason why your particular industry has to be profit-making.

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 2802 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 8:54:15 AM
"I said healthcare should not be a for profit business. Crakr called me a "socialist", ollie called me a commie, jfactor called it "socialism"."

You forgot, I called you an asshat for thinking I shouldn't make a profit.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4469 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 8:10:38 AM
Crakr

"I'm disabled you d|psh|t, you know that."

You don't think every single person on medicaid or welfare or food stamps has an excuse for why they can't / shouldn't have to work and need government assistance?

You constantly say we don't need the government. Yet, you rely on the government for your basic survival. I just find that to be shockingly asinine.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2742 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 5:48:19 AM
@CrakrJak

"I'm disabled you d|psh|t, you know that."

Why should the rest of us be forced to pay for you? You should live off of charity given by willing people.

That's pretty much the argument you spout at us.

Why don't you practice what you preach?

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16155 Posts
Friday, October 04, 2013 5:41:35 AM
HG: "Why do you get healthcare at no cost to you but I have to pay for mine?"

I'm disabled you d|psh|t, you know that. Why are you being obtuse about it? Geesh, you can't be this ignorant and own a successful business. Therefore, I have no other conclusion than to say you're just being a d|ckish troll right now.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4469 Posts
Thursday, October 03, 2013 11:20:15 PM
Crakr

Why do you get healthcare at no cost to you but I have to pay for mine? Why are you entitled but I'm not?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4469 Posts
Thursday, October 03, 2013 10:53:32 PM
Crakr

"No, I don't want single payer insurance. I was referring to everyone in the hospital I went to got the same level of care."

So you think YOU should get healthcare provided by tax dollars with no out of pocket expense to you but OTHER people should have to pay thousands of dollars?

"You on the other hand want people like me to get substandard care, while you get the "fancy amenities", because you're an elitist socialist."

No. I want everyone to get quality care, however if you want to pay extra for opulent rooms and gourmet meals that is fine. I wouldn't. I'm not rich and i don't waste money on superfluous (in my consideration) luxuries.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16155 Posts
Thursday, October 03, 2013 10:42:40 PM
HG: "So then you want single payer insurance so every american has access to the same care you get?"

Now you're just being a troll.

No, I don't want single payer insurance. I was referring to everyone in the hospital I went to got the same level of care.

You on the other hand want people like me to get substandard care, while you get the "fancy amenities", because you're an elitist socialist.

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2141 Posts
Thursday, October 03, 2013 4:02:32 PM
What defines a "Freer" economy? Beyond some nebulous definition of "liberty" that is? There is no such thing as a total "free market", everyone places at least some rules on what can be bought or sold (For example we ban the buying and selling of humans), the difference is just a matter of degree.

Socialism is the distribution of goods and services according to need instead of market value. According to that, yes every one of those countries I mentioned is indeed Socialist. Communism is the total lack of private property altogether and a total lack of obedience to any conception of Supply and Demand. You're the one who needs to hit the books my friend.

And incidentally, what does the size of a given nation herein have to do with the price of tea in China?

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 260 Posts
Thursday, October 03, 2013 3:45:57 PM
@Andrew
"But it's really stupid that we keep looking to countries with 5 million people and completely different conditions as the ideal model for a country of 320 million that is megadiverse. "

Thats the wisest thing ive read on IAB yet.

747Pilot
Male, 18-29, Canada
 576 Posts
Thursday, October 03, 2013 3:33:39 PM
it always amazes me that drugs and surgeries are so expensive there. It also makes me wonder why the citizens just don't storm congress by the millions, while it's shut down over petty reasons, and revoke all titles held by the politicians. Then while millions of people are there, sit down and find the best leaders of the country by their deeds, and usher in new government. You know, pull the knife out in one pull, instead of slowly pulling it out, finding out it hurts too much and gradually putting it back. How much more of this can they take? Downright shame, that's what it is. Who'll put them out of their misery of their master?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4469 Posts
Thursday, October 03, 2013 3:29:44 PM
Andrew155

"Holygod, that's so dumb. Firemen, policemen, parks, postal workers - how are these "Socialist". You've distorted the term even more than tea partiers by now. "

I'm arguing against people who use the term "socialism" that loosely.

I said healthcare should not be a for profit business. Crakr called me a "socialist", ollie called me a commie, jfactor called it "socialism".


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