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Invalid Arguments: Climate Change

Hits: 3673 | Rating: (2.9) | Category: Science | Added by: aquaman1227
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25716 Posts
Monday, September 30, 2013 8:49:30 AM
When did I say he is stupid?

LOLZ! Very funny @HolyGod!
The you even quote the part where you do it! Oh you don't LITERALLY use the word...

The number of believers?

Lets face facts: SOMEBODY is wrong! Either billions of one group, or billions of another, eh? Mere nubers do NOT make it right... AGW Back On Topic! (Just for you @Squrlz4: lolz!)

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12078 Posts
Sunday, September 29, 2013 7:55:03 PM
What's the difference between Scientology and Christianity? About 2000 years.

Same goes for Islam, and all the others. It's all equally bullsh*t. It's just that some religions are more ensconced than others.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17159 Posts
Sunday, September 29, 2013 7:00:46 PM
HG: "So if there were a billion scientologists and only a few million christians..."

That's not going to happen. But anyways, no it's not about numbers. It's about certain qualities as stated before, "ostracism, elitism and fanaticism", among others.

Radical islam has quite a lot of members, but they are known for hunting down apostates, throwing acid on women's faces, stoning people, and blowing themselves up on occasion. I find those actions far more dangerous than the Branch Davidians were ever accused of doing and it was obvious they were a cult.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Sunday, September 29, 2013 3:26:37 PM
... wondering why this thread regarding climate change has been hijacked into a rant about religion ...

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Sunday, September 29, 2013 12:56:53 PM
Crakr

"I draw the line at cults, like scientology"

What makes scientology different than christianity?

The number of believers? So if there were a billion scientologists and only a few million christians then in your mind scientology would be ok and christianity would be a cult?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Sunday, September 29, 2013 12:55:15 PM
5Cats

"So if @CrakrJak believes the Universe is 6 Billion years old... and YOU believe the SAME? Then WHY are you saying he's stupid?"

When did I say he is stupid?

I said:

"If you are gullible enough to believe in the bible than you lose credibility in a discussion about facts, proof, etc. since OBVIOUSLY you don't require them."

Whether or not you believe in the bible you have to admit that belief in the bible is based almost entirely on faith. There is no proof whatsoever in most of the bible. So it is an example of a person's capacity to believe in something without proof. That's all.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17159 Posts
Sunday, September 29, 2013 10:03:29 AM
HG: "Is ANY belief totally legitimate and acceptable? Can we have NO baseline for sanity?"

I draw the line at cults, like scientology, the rajneeshs, raelians, mooneys and radical islam.

And I have to say, many atheists are beginning to act rather cultish, at times, as well. Mostly due to ostracism, elitism and fanaticism among them.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25716 Posts
Sunday, September 29, 2013 8:09:23 AM
@HolyGod: So if @CrakrJak believes the Universe is 6 Billion years old... and YOU believe the SAME? Then WHY are you saying he's stupid? Unless YOU are saying that of yourself also??

IT DOESN'T MATTER if the Big Bang happened "spontaneously" or "on purpose" OK? That is MOOT!

"Moot" (3) adjective:
: not certain : argued about but not possible for people to prove
: not worth talking about : no longer important or worth discussing



You seem to spend a LOT of time deliberating on moot points, juts my observation...

If you "believe in Santa" and also believe in freedom of speech? Does that make ALL freedom of speech STUPID? IRRATIONAL? WRONG?

Seriously dude: logical fallacies...

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Sunday, September 29, 2013 12:35:41 AM
Crakr

"I certainly wouldn't be condescending and dismiss all of your judgements out of hand and call you irrational"

If I believed in santa you wouldn't call me irrational? Seriously? Is ANY belief totally legitimate and acceptable? Can we have NO baseline for sanity?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Sunday, September 29, 2013 12:33:24 AM
5Cats

"CrakrJak has repeatedly informed you he's not a "6K" ok?"

Do you see me accusing him of it? Have you seen me ever accuse him of it? What the f.uck are you talking about? AGAIN you are arguing against a position I have never taken.

"He's repeatedly said he does NOT."

When? I'm not talking about the 6,000 year thing as that can be interpreted different ways. It isn't expressly described in the bible. I'm under the impression he DOES believe the bible literally, as in the flood was a real flood and not a metaphor, etc. If he doesn't then I have misunderstood or am misremembering.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Sunday, September 29, 2013 12:28:32 AM
djwajda

"Yep, I left out guys like Albert Einstein because the list was pretty damn long."

Good. Leave him off the list. He was a life long agnostic, if not atheist.

He described the concept of god as the result of human weakness and called the bible childish.

Do a LITTLE research before you put someone in camp crazy because of one out of context quote.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14389 Posts
Saturday, September 28, 2013 9:45:00 PM
@HG I've probably had sex with more girls in the last year than you have in your entire life.

That one's probably true. It's hard to imagine that anyone would ever have sex with you twice.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17159 Posts
Saturday, September 28, 2013 9:10:07 PM
"If you are gullible enough to believe in the bible than you lose credibility in a discussion about facts, proof, etc. since OBVIOUSLY you don't require them."

Your ignorance and bigotry is astounding. You've completely jumped the shark, with that statement.

Are you really so arrogant, in your atheism, that you think deists are inferior? If so, you're no different than the guys wearing white hoods and burning crosses.

"If I told you I believed in santa would you trust me to make rational judgements in other areas?"

I certainly wouldn't be condescending and dismiss all of your judgements out of hand and call you irrational. It's the same kind of bigotry used to justify Jim Crow.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25716 Posts
Saturday, September 28, 2013 4:42:17 PM
Since God made the world and made it perfectly...

HOLY COW @Squrlz4! Who's stupid enough to believe THAT?? LMAO! That's some hard-core KOOKERY there!

One look at "the world" and it should be obvious it's far from "perfect"...

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25716 Posts
Saturday, September 28, 2013 4:38:48 PM
@HolyGod: There's a HUGE difference between:
"Creationist" = God created the universe 6 BILLION years ago
And "6K Creationist" = God created the universe 6,000 years ago

OK? @CrakrJak has repeatedly informed you he's not a "6K" ok?

@HolyGod: Well? How many have you read? 1, 3, 17, 84?? I have thoroughly read about 3 in my life... SO it might be true, so why 'flip out' over it?

If you believe the bible verbatim...

Once again I ask: HOW do you know this? He's repeatedly said he does NOT.

You've done this kind of "mind reading" with me on several occasions: just FYI, eh? It comes across as really silly! Especially when you keep repeating it in the face of correct information...
How "scientific" is THAT? Lolz!

djwajda
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 851 Posts
Saturday, September 28, 2013 3:36:21 PM
@HG

Yep, I left out guys like Albert Einstein because the list was pretty damn long.

So @Crakr simply disagrees about climate change and it isn't to your liking or @mesovortex's liking so 'hey let's call him illiterate and tell him he knows nothing because he's religious'?

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind


I may not totally agree with the above statement but then I also am not the man that discovered the theory of relativity either so I guess a guy that smart can say what he pleases.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Saturday, September 28, 2013 2:08:01 PM
djwajda

"bashing a person's religion has nothing to do with the debate."

Totally disagree. If you believe the bible verbatim without any evidence whatsoever than I personally believe you eliminate yourself from any serious discussion on things that require rational thought and tangible evidence.

If I told you I believed in santa would you trust me to make rational judgements in other areas?

"Just a few very notable scientists from history that believed in god yet made some of the most important scientific advances in history."

1. You listed people who lived hundreds of years ago, some during a time when saying you didn't believe in god would have been a punishable offense. Also, a lot of funding for the sciences at those times came from the church.

2. I'm not talking about belief in god. I'm talking about believing the bible verbatim literally.

djwajda
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 851 Posts
Saturday, September 28, 2013 1:38:56 PM
@Squrlz

Everything you just said I agree with. I left a lot of names off that I'd found but those stood out in the beginning of it so they're what I used.

I guess what I was trying to point out is if you're going to tell someone they're 'scientifically illiterate', be a bit more literate yourself.

I do think we've affected the climate. I also believe however that it has at times been overblown like so many other things when politicians have agendas to push. And it goes both ways such as 'big oil' agendas and so forth. What's needed is common sense to prevail and a middle ground reached. But of course that will probably never happen and the big debate will continue to rage on.

But again, bashing a person's religion has nothing to do with the debate.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Saturday, September 28, 2013 1:22:50 PM
(Cont'd)

Since this belief is at the very core of their religious views, trying to persuade them with facts or data or logic is a waste of time.

@ CrakrJak: At the risk of being impertinent, I have to ask, CJ: As a creationist, is that your belief? That is, do you believe that there is no way that God would have created a world that could be damaged by man's CO2 emissions? (Feel free to decline to answer; this is private territory, I know.)

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Saturday, September 28, 2013 1:22:31 PM
@ Djwajda: Agreed. (And I'd add Charles Darwin to your list of scientists who believed in God and have made major scientific contributions.)

Generally, I think it's best to leave religion out of global warming discussions entirely. The only case where it gets tricky, however, is with creationists--and by creationists (to define terms upfront), I mean those who believe that God created the Earth in the exact form we see today in the seven-day process described in Genesis.

I have discussions with climate change skeptics all the time. And very often I come to find that at the heart of a creationist's skepticism regarding climate change is this belief: Since God made the world and made it perfectly, there is NO WAY POSSIBLE that it would contain a vulnerability--i.e., a flaw--that would allow man to do serious harm to it or destroy it.

(Cont'd)

TJEx
Male, 30-39, Canada
 50 Posts
Saturday, September 28, 2013 12:37:50 PM
If you believe in Climate Change but is not the fault of man just the big ball in the sky. Something that is so big even 1% change in the output can affect earth because man is insignificant in the size of the planet you are evil or something.

djwajda
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 851 Posts
Saturday, September 28, 2013 11:25:27 AM
So this went from a discussion about climate change to religion bashing?

If you are gullible enough to believe in the bible than you lose credibility in a discussion about facts, proof, etc. since OBVIOUSLY you don't require them


Nicholas Copernicus,Sir Francis Bacon,Johannes Kepler,Blaise Pascal and Michael Faraday. Just a few very notable scientists from history that believed in god yet made some of the most important scientific advances in history.

I could care less what a person believes and I certainly won't hold religion against them if I don't agree with their opinions.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Saturday, September 28, 2013 9:07:45 AM
5Cats

"YOU do this ALL the time!
Mr.Mensa Member
Self-Made Businessman
Mixed Martial Arts fighter
...and countless other forms of self grandiloquence you've posted here at IAB... "

Those are all true things about me that I have brought up in relevant conversations. I NEVER said I was the best fighter in here or I was the greatest small businessman on this site.

His quote was not simply that he had published a scientific paper, or even several. That would have been fine. It was:

"I've probably contributed to more published papers in the last year than you have read in your entire life."

Huge f.ucking difference no?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Saturday, September 28, 2013 9:04:19 AM
5Cats

"@CrakrJak: Again, you're a creationist.

AGAIN: He's not a "6000 Year" creationist! You're arguing against a FALSE BELIEF (on YOUR part)."

NO. NOT ON HIS PART. He didn't say he was a young earth creationist. YOU DID. He just said he is a creationist, which is true. Once again you are arguing against a position nobody has taken.

"You by definition are scientifically illiterate "

Lets re-phrase that so it's REALLY easy to see:

"Your skin is white, so by definition are scientifically illiterate -"

SEE?"

No. No sane person sees. Being white has nothing to do with being scientifically illiterate. Believing the absurdity of the bible does. You really don't see a connection there?

If you are gullible enough to believe in the bible than you lose credibility in a discussion about facts, proof, etc. since OBVIOUSLY you don't require them.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Saturday, September 28, 2013 8:58:38 AM
Crakr

"You rarely do."

Well. Being emotionally vested in whether one group of millionaires I have no connection to run in a square more than another group of millionaires just always struck me as rather pathetic, but each to their own.

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