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So It Turns Out Bible Stud Is Important [Pic+]

Hits: 7327 | Rating: (1.6) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: 747Pilot
Page: 1 2 3 4 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17035 Posts
Thursday, September 19, 2013 1:05:37 AM
HG: "Yes. Science can. You put them somewhere and forgot where."

Science still has no idea exactly how synapses and the brain works.

So what caused me to forget? What caused me to misplace them in the first place? Not even a PhD. neurologist can really explain that with any degree of certainty.

"He chose for me not to believe in absurd things without quantifiable indisputable proof."

You have no "quantifiable indisputable proof" that God doesn't exist. Even science has acknowledged that man's nature is to have some kind of "faith", and that it is advantageous for societies to have a common faith.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25283 Posts
Wednesday, September 18, 2013 7:50:26 PM
I didn't win a lottery.

@HolyGod: Well, you won the "genetic lottery" eh? And the "Born In The USA" lottery.
You're not disease stricken.
You're not in the 3rd world.
Pretty lucky! All in all.
(I know! You mean "win the lottery for money" I get that. I'm just saying there's other "lotteries" you've sort-of "won".)

I was asking how @crakr *knew* it was a miracle

@patchy: Well, yeah, I have no idea on that!
Other than: "Faith" eh?
I was just offering a "general purpose guide" to such things. "Miracle" implies something "good" yes? Which (I think) is not how "God operates", just how we view things.

God "allows" things to happen, both good and bad. It's just how He rolls.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Wednesday, September 18, 2013 9:35:51 AM
Crakr

"God didn't chose for you, to be an atheist"

According to you god did choose for me to be rational and intelligent. He chose for me to have common sense. He chose for me not to believe in absurd things without quantifiable indisputable proof. So I would argue he DID choose for me to be an atheist.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Wednesday, September 18, 2013 9:33:20 AM
Crakr

"And science can't explain it either."

SCIENCE CAN'T EXPLAIN HOW YOU LOST YOUR CAR KEYS?

Yes. Science can. You put them somewhere and forgot where.

TA DA!

What science can't explain is how you could actually be dumb enough to say that.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17035 Posts
Wednesday, September 18, 2013 5:55:44 AM
patch: "He should be able to tell me how you can specifically differentiate one from a coincidence.."

Even the Catholic church has completely defined what a "miracle" is and they are all about solid definitions of what is good and bad.

But if you want the dictionary version: "a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency."

Was it "natural" for me to loose my keys? No. And science can't explain it either. Now initially it wasn't a "welcome" event, but it was later in my car.

I would add, to that definition, that miracles usually have a lesson involved, something that has a positive impact on your attitude about life and God.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17035 Posts
Wednesday, September 18, 2013 5:43:48 AM
HG: "So in your mind god decided I would be a successful talented graphic designer.."

No, you decided how to use your talents. Just as you decided to be an atheist. So when you meet him, instead of blaming him, because he did give us a steady guide, Jesus Christ, the only one you can blame is yourself.

You chose not to understand, God didn't chose for you, to be an atheist, graphic designer, etc..

I don't believe God has thrown in the towel with anyone, redemption is only a prayer away. Besides, Benjamin Franklin was in his 70s when the American Revolution started. You never know how or when circumstances may change.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5713 Posts
Wednesday, September 18, 2013 4:04:23 AM
Good or Bad is a subjective, human thing. God works on an entirely different scale!

Special pleading. Besides, I wasn't talking about God, I was asking how @crakr *knew* it was a miracle. He should be able to tell me how you can specifically differentiate one from a coincidence, otherwise it's just an assumption, and Occam's razor would obliterate the notion of miracle.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 11:05:36 PM
Crakr

"Not one bit, God has given you all your talents and abilities. He's given us this planet and all it's resources.

But you don't believe that. You give yourself all the credit and loudly boast of your accomplishments."

So in your mind god decided I would be a successful talented graphic designer and god decided you would be an unemployed cripple?

I'm successful because of my 20 hour days. I'm successful because I have studied everything I can. I didn't win a lottery. I'm not a freak athlete or super model. I wasn't BORN a talented graphic designer. I worked my ass off to perfect my craft. Why would I give that credit to your imaginary friend?

"So that when the time comes, when you meet your maker, like we all will, what will you say?"

Wow. I can't believe you actually exist. Why didn't you give us a guide that would have lead to a wonderful world instead of this book of fairytales, tests, and mind games?

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17035 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 10:17:36 PM
HG: "Don't you find it a BIT f.ucked up that your god makes being proud a SIN?"

Not one bit, God has given you all your talents and abilities. He's given us this planet and all it's resources.

But you don't believe that. You give yourself all the credit and loudly boast of your accomplishments. But I wonder who you curse when things don't go your way? Is it yourself? I really doubt it.

So that when the time comes, when you meet your maker, like we all will, what will you say?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25283 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 4:07:30 PM
So very (un)fortunate things cannot occur by coincidence?

@patchy: Good or Bad is a subjective, human thing. God works on an entirely different scale!
Some "Bad Things" that happen (and @HolyGod pointed this sort of thing out) MIGHT lead to wonderful things down the road!

Or not. We just don't know!

Likewise "Good Things" may end up having negative effects.

In theory: "Only God Knows" but with "freewill"? I don't know if even HE knows! He's probably a really good guesser...

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:42:56 AM
Crakr

"Meeting an old friend, after 20 years, randomly at somewhere would be coincidence."

Well what if meeting that old friend keeps you an extra few minutes and you avoid a car accident. Then it becomes a miracle right?

What if you lost your car keys and that CAUSES the accident. Now because it is a bad result instead of a good one it is just random coincidence?

What if you wouldn't have lost your keys? Maybe you would have gotten in that accident. Maybe you would have gotten a minor injury. Maybe you would have gone to the hospital and your nurse was the woman of your dreams. Maybe the two of you would have fallen in love and had a family. Maybe one of your children would have cured cancer. You losing your car keys could have been one of the worst things to ever happen to humanity.

I'm not entirely joking. You never know what could happen.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:36:17 AM
Crakr

"So you think I live one of the "worst lives" eh? "desperate to believe", right? You assume too much."

Well I only know from what you have spoken. I know you were homeless. You are now physically disabled to the point where you say you can't even function enough to use a computer for work. You are poor. You have never mentioned a wife or kids.

Are you happy with the way your life has turned out?

I think people far too often get complacent with life because they don't view it as finite. They just see it as a test or appetizer for eternal bliss in heaven.

I live my life to the fullest I can because I believe this is it. Religious people sometimes are ok with a s.hitty lot because it is just temporary. That is why the ruling class and those in power encourage religion. It keeps the sheep in line.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5713 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:33:09 AM
The miracle part has to do with the degree of fortune encountered or misfortune avoided.

So very (un)fortunate things cannot occur by coincidence?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:56:58 AM
Crakr

"One of these days, when you least expect it, that pride fall will happen, it will be devastating. You won't be able to handle it because you have no clue how to humble yourself."

PRIDE
: the quality or state of being proud: as
a : inordinate self-esteem : conceit
b : a reasonable or justifiable self-respect
c : delight or elation arising from some act, possession, or relationship

Don't you find it a BIT f.ucked up that your god makes being proud a SIN? What kind of pathetic higher power needs credit for everything? Everything good that happens is because of god, but nothing bad is. Brilliant.

That's ok. You live your life on your knees metaphorically fellating an imaginary megalomaniac. I'll live my life for me, the people I care about, and humanity.

I guess we'll find out who's right eventually.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25283 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:40:26 AM
@MrOrange: 10 people read "The Bible" and you'll hear 10 different messages. It's not a perfect book, eh? Nothing "of the world" is perfect = duh!

Not that I believe that stuff, I'm a Deist, but that part of Christianity isn't their biggest flaw, by far!

Yes, God appears to have "changed his mind" several times in the OT. But since humans have literally NO idea what's inside God's mind? It's OUR perspective that sees change.

The "Old" was for God's chosen people (The Hebrews) and the "New" is for all of humankind! I don't see how that's hard to follow...

@HolyGod: Since God created everything, it's entirely HIS business what he does with it, eh?

We have no idea what happens after we die, do you? Does science? It's ALL based on faith of one kind or another...

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17035 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:13:39 AM
"..sometimes the people with the worst lives are the ones most desperate to believe"

So you think I live one of the "worst lives" eh? "desperate to believe", right? You assume too much.

Keep stacking those pride bricks man, you'll regret doing so later.

"How exactly would you separate a "miracle" from a coincidence?"

Meeting an old friend, after 20 years, randomly at somewhere would be coincidence. The miracle part has to do with the degree of fortune encountered or misfortune avoided.

God didn't move my keys, I'm aware that it was due to my own action that they were lost. But what influenced me to not put them where they belong? That I don't know for sure, but I do believe God can influence people subtlety.

What was learned is what's important, maturity and wisdom were gained from it. Don't let little things upset you, be patient, don't let daily routine run your life.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17035 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 6:48:22 AM
HG: "I don't mock him, but I do mock those that believe in him..."

The nickname you use here mocks him, and you chose it intentionally to mock him and us.

"I don't intend that as mean."

Yes, yes you do, that's just the kind of mocking condescending assh*le you are. You think your sh|t doesn't stink, but when you condescend and mock others, and believe that you do no wrong doing so, you're stacking up those bricks of pride-fulness.

One of these days, when you least expect it, that pride fall will happen, it will be devastating. You won't be able to handle it because you have no clue how to humble yourself.

You lack the maturity and wisdom to handle it. I really fear for you, because I've seen pride fall happen to others who thought they lived "charmed lives" as well. You may not be strong enough to dig yourself out from under those tons of bricks your stacking up right now.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5713 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 4:48:50 AM
Uhmm no, I was citing an instance that I believe to be a miracle, that initially seemed to be something unfortunate, that others like yourself would call a "coincidence".

Simple question: How exactly would you separate a "miracle" from a coincidence? What exactly is the measuring stick for what is a miracle and what is not? Would it have been a coincidence if there were more people in traffic? Would it have been a coincidence if you forgot something you are more "likely" to forget?

MrOrange
Male, 30-39, Europe
 2327 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:02:29 AM
"Except the New Testament 'replaced' the Old Testament (Torah) for the Christians"

going back to crakr calling my examples absurd, they might be extreme examples of people who claim god spoke to them, but you christians know how to chop and chance to suit your argument as well don't you? is the bibble the word of god or not? and how come one part of it isn't "used" but the other is? what, only half of what god you have to listen to?

MrOrange
Male, 30-39, Europe
 2327 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 1:58:36 AM
"God is the BAD GUY, not satan. God is the bad guy and his son turns against him and saves us. Jesus is the good guy and that is why we should worship him, for saving us from god and his vengeance."

true that! if you talley up the people the devil killed acording tot the word of god, it ads up too three (really one but, i feel generous today) God killed the entire world population three times over, and "tested" his followers believe in him in pretty sick way's.


HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:26:26 AM
Crakr

"Perhaps you blame him for not protecting you or something/someone you loved."

Actually no. My life is f.ucking charmed. Ridiculously so. The worst thing that has ever happened to me or anyone I truly cared about was that I had appendicitis. In fact my life being so charmed is one of the reasons I don't believe in god. I openly mock the very idea of his existence and I'm rewarded with this life. You worship him and you end up homeless and then disabled. Doesn't that piss you off? Or is that why you HAVE to believe in god? Because if you didn't have heaven to look forward to you wouldn't be able to handle it?

I don't intend that as mean. I just have noticed that sometimes the people with the worst lives are the ones most desperate to believe because they need to convince themselves there is something better than this life waiting for them.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:24:29 AM
Crakr

"No you aren't, you truly hate God and it shows. You mock him and everyone that believes in him."

I don't mock him, but I do mock those that believe in him the same way I would mock you if you believed in santa. If I made fun of you for believing in santa would you then say that I hate santa?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:20:21 AM
Crakr

"Ragnarok"

Are you under the impression that is a character? I had to look it up, but you may want to brush up on your norse mythology.

"Shiva"

Bulls.hit. When does shiva kill everyone on the planet?

"Airyaman and Atar"

Don't know who they are.

"Xenu"

I may give you that one. Congratulations. To find your lord's equal you had to compare him to an insane sociopathic alien invented by a crazy science fiction writer. But hey, at least give scientologists credit, they were smart enough to make him the bad guy.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17035 Posts
Monday, September 16, 2013 11:48:59 PM
HG: "I'm talking as characters in literature. Fiction."

No you aren't, you truly hate God and it shows. You mock him and everyone that believes in him.

You won't admit it here, I'm sure, but you do hate and blame God for something in your life. Perhaps you blame him for not protecting you or something/someone you loved. Whatever it is, it's more than "fictional" or you wouldn't be so belligerent toward God and his followers.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17035 Posts
Monday, September 16, 2013 11:39:41 PM
"Name a single character in a single book that does worse acts."

I can name several: Ragnarok, Shiva, Airyaman and Atar, Xenu and quite a few others.

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