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Bad Guy NASA? [Pic]

Hits: 10802 | Rating: (3.7) | Category: Misc. | Added by: B-diddy
Page: 1 2 3 4 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25759 Posts
Monday, September 16, 2013 1:57:35 AM
"Mission Accomplished" - GW Bush

"I can see Russia from my porch!" - S Palin

Any further questions?

Obama DID SAY IT (unlike the above "quotes") and his "context" is CRAP. The pathetic excuses and "justifications" of the MSM do not over-rule MY PERSONAL OPINION.

Got that?

It's MY opinion and unless you got some NEW facts to offer? I shall retain it!

Feel free to disagree! It's not like I'm trying to convince anyone, I'm just "speaking truth to power" bro! Oh wait, that's "out of fashion" since Jan 2009 isn't it...

American Dream: You Can Do It!
Obama Dream: You Did Not Build That!

He ever SPECIFICALLY refers to "a business".

YOU @Mr.HolyGod did NOT build that business! Why are you falsely taking credit for it? Huh??? (/sarc)

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Monday, September 16, 2013 12:18:25 AM
5Cats

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that."

You have to either HATE Obama and look for ANYTHING to attack him about or be a mindless twat suckling on right wing propaganda to watch that speech in context and come away with:

"You didn't build it! - B.Obama
LOLZ!"

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25759 Posts
Sunday, September 15, 2013 9:55:52 PM
Explain to me how that isn't the government generating wealth?

@HolyGod: You didn't build it! - B.Obama

LOLZ!
Yes You Did! YOU did it! Not "the gov't" OK? There are many ways to get financing WITHOUT Uncle Sam holding the purse strings, OK?
If some bureaucrat had "invested" that 10K on "Gov't Projects" it would vanish! PFFT! Gone in a flask.
The PRIVATE SECTOR (you) did ALL those good things.

The wealth is only created once the consumer buys the shoes right?

RIGHT! That is exactly what I said!
The persons who work for Nike have their 'wealth' increased whether or not Nike sells them. Same for the suppliers of materials used.
But NIKE only "increases wealth" (in reality) after the goods are sold. Before that it's "potential"...

You DO agree! How nice!

PhantasmFork
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 169 Posts
Sunday, September 15, 2013 1:48:53 PM
Who the hell eat potato chips?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Sunday, September 15, 2013 12:22:32 PM
Cajun247

"Not necessarily, a bank or someone else could have lent you the money."

Well an sba loan is through a bank, but the government guarantees it.

I don't think I would have been able to get any loan at that time in my life without the government guaranteeing it.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10283 Posts
Sunday, September 15, 2013 12:06:36 PM
@HolyGod

Not necessarily, a bank or someone else could have lent you the money. That way if you failed tax payers wouldn't be on the hook.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Sunday, September 15, 2013 11:48:57 AM
broizfam

"Agreed here. The gov't didn't create your wealth, HG, they made it possible for you to do that. And congratulations on success."

I agree. I didn't by any means intend to imply they generated it themselves. But they were an important and necessary step in the creation.

Without them the wealth may not have been created. That is all. I just mean government can play an important role in the creation of wealth.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Sunday, September 15, 2013 11:45:13 AM
HumanAction

"First off, I never said that the government cannot create wealth - @5Cats did."

Fair enough. I thought that was the argument you were participating in. I didn't go back and read all the comments thoroughly. My bad.

"this means that the loan specifically did not create wealth."

Absolutely. It was just a part of the process. By your reasoning then nike doesn't create wealth by making shoes. The wealth is only created once the consumer buys the shoes right?

"As for the government creating wealth, most often times, they don't directly create wealth. Most of the time, they transfer wealth in a manner they hope will allow others to create wealth. "

Certainly. I agree with everything you are saying. I guess I just disagree with 5Cats. Shocking.





broizfam
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 3513 Posts
Sunday, September 15, 2013 8:53:06 AM
Agreed here. The gov't didn't create your wealth, HG, they made it possible for you to do that. And congratulations on success.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Sunday, September 15, 2013 8:42:22 AM
@HolyGod

As for the government creating wealth, most often times, they don't directly create wealth. Most of the time, they transfer wealth in a manner they hope will allow others to create wealth.

Now whether the government is the best entity to manage this transfer of wealth (vs. the market), is an entirely different argument.

However, there are instances where the government produces services and/or goods (USPS for instance) that no other entity could do reasonably. Surely this is wealth creation.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Sunday, September 15, 2013 8:36:47 AM
@HolyGod

First off, I never said that the government cannot create wealth - @5Cats did.

All I said (at least, over the last page or two) was that wealth cannot be created without production; simply, that production is the only way to create wealth. Mind you, we're talking about the total wealth of society rather than an individuals wealth.

Since 2007 I've generated around $1,200,000 in revenue.

This is where wealth was created. Without the loans, you probably wouldn't have been able to do this; nonetheless, the loans increased your potential wealth creation, rather than directly increasing your wealth.

If you had gotten the loans and education, and then did nothing with them, no wealth would be created because your product/service would not have been created. Logically, this means that the loan specifically did not create wealth.

Right?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Sunday, September 15, 2013 8:00:44 AM
HumanAction

The government cannot create wealth?

In 2007 I got an SBA (small business) loan for $10,000 that allowed me to expand my business. Without the government that probably wouldn't have been possible. I also got student loan backed by the government or I wouldn't have been able to go to school to learn what I do.

Since 2007 I've generated around $1,200,000 in revenue. I've paid employees around $600,000. I've developed projects that have resulted in $5,000,000+ in advertising and printing. Not to mention the growth in the sales for my clients.

Explain to me how that isn't the government generating wealth?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25759 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 3:24:33 PM
True, BUT the "government" cannot "create jobs" ok?

@Squrlz4: Whoops! I meant "wealth" not jobs! As in total wealth or GDP, eh? Obviously "individual jobs and wealth" are created, >>yeah!<<, but by using tax dollars? The Gov't is simply taking wealth from one pocket & putting it into another. Not real >total< wealth increase.

Value? That's an entirely different discussion! Of course police, firefighters & etc are VALUABLE! And without them society MIGHT fall to bits = true!

But building bridges people never use? Or entire cities without occupants (China)? How does that really DO anything? Couldn't the money have been better spent?

@Stormith: For many "government projects" that would be an improvement! I think NASA is really "top notch" however.
Love the avatar!!

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 2:50:24 PM
@lauriloo

to mentally ma$turbate

Ooh - sounds naughty.

have circular arguments

Not sure you understand the definition of circular logic.

avoiding admitting he's wrong

Please demonstrate where supposed error occurred.

claiming we didn't understand what he really meant

Well now you're just being silly. Next time we argue, I'm just going to tack on a bunch of assumptions to your statements and argue about them.

In all fairness, I think it is important for you to know that I hold our little discussions very near to my heart. There's magic between us, @lauriloo; can you feel it? Don't lock yourself in a glass cage of emotion.

Seriously though, I don't think you made any actual points in your comment other than trying to call me an idiot. Surely there are more elegant ways of doing so.

lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
 1805 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 2:37:34 PM
I've determined that HumanAction's way of arguing a totally philosophical point rather than the concrete issue at hand is his special way to mentally ma$turbate (and have circular arguments with people). I do admire his way of avoiding admitting he's wrong when someone makes a good point by claiming we didn't understand what he really meant.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 2:10:30 PM
I'm with Gauddith on this: I think we've all beaten this horse to death. Or, to use her words, "just STAHP!"

(Basically, I'm going to agree with anything that Gauddith says because her homepage features a cute chipmunk.)

~Squrlz departs to get a Snickers *and* take a nap~

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 2:09:38 PM
@broizfam

Trading bills is in no way equivalent to trading money for goods which is what makes an economy "go", as they say.

Yes it is. Even so, how about this - I'll buy some wrenches from you and you buy some hammers from me. You allege that this creates wealth? It does not. We still have the same amount of money, the same amount of hammers, and the same amount of wrenches between us. Wealth was only transferred.

I really don't know how else to explain this to you.

I'll look forward to future comments and try to forget these existed.

Oh quit being so dramatic. We disagreed about the mechanisms that create wealth - not really a big deal.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 2:04:58 PM
@Gauddith

This is the phrase from @broizfam's post that I have taken issue with:

if you actually know anything about economics you know that wealth is created by the movement of money through the economy

In this statement, he suggests that wealth is created via the movement of money through an economy; this position is incorrect. Wealth is TRANSFERRED via movement of money rather than CREATED.

Can someone, anyone, show me an example of how wealth is created by the simple exchange of goods and/or money? I'm all ears. Chances are, at some point in the explanation, you will need to declare that something was produced.

anything you say is going to end up a re-iteration of a former argument

With this, I agree entirely.

broizfam
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 3513 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 1:51:36 PM
@Gauddith,
Thank you.

broizfam
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 3513 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 1:50:11 PM
HA,
Of course I agree that it's stupid. Not surprised you came up with it. Trading bills is in no way equivalent to trading money for goods which is what makes an economy "go", as they say.
Every time you post on this subject you make yourself look dumber. STOP. I'll tell you what...I'll just start ignoring your posts on this thread from now on. You've made some good points on other subjects. I'll look forward to future comments and try to forget these existed.

Hey Squrlz,
You with me on this? I think it would be for the best but I'll understand if you're still having too much fun.

Gauddith
Female, 18-29, Western US
 226 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 1:48:08 PM
HumanAction, I went back and read his post, pretty sure that's not what he said at all. Not even a little bit.

I'm in agreeance with broizfam here, in fact, this goes for a few other people too.

You're beating a dead horse here, it's done, anything you say is going to end up a re-iteration of a former argument someone has had in this thread, you have two options to avoid this, attempt character assassination, or you can throw politics into it.

S'good you guys, everyone wins. Go to sleep or get a snickers.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 1:19:27 PM
@broizfam

Yea, but here's the "point" you tried to make:



Hey, let's you and I sit down tomorrow and swap $100 bills back and forth all day! Imagine how much wealth we will create!

Of course, you won't acknowledge how completely, fundamentally, unbelievably stupid the idea is.

Wealth increases via production and decreases via consumption. There are simply no other ways to change the amount of available wealth in a society.

By the way, I actually happen to be an a$$hole - as you've so elegantly put it.

broizfam
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 3513 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 1:15:32 PM
HA,
Already made my point, long ago in this thread. You lost yours long ago. Time to stop. You're clearly beyond reason, and your last post makes me think, for the first time, that you're an a$$hole. Stop.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 12:54:24 PM
How @broizfam sees himself:



How @broizfam actually exists:



Label me a skeptic of your economic prowess my daft friend.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 12:37:02 PM
@broizfam

Just stop talking about economy. You have no concept of what makes it go.

So... you don't actually have an argument to make, you just disagree blindly then? I love people like this.

"I don't know what I'm arguing about but damn it, I know you're wrong and I'm right!"

Damn! That was impressive!

That's all it takes to impress you? Now I don't feel bad that you weren't able to follow along. At least @Squrlz was able to argue his case. You, on the other hand, are content to simply ride his coattails. How very sad.

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