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Star Treks First Interracial Kiss

Hits: 2970 | Rating: (3.4) | Category: Entertainment | Added by: 12chars
Page: 1 2 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
uatme
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1017 Posts
Sunday, September 15, 2013 6:21:59 PM
Way to go Bill

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25004 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 9:02:45 PM
@Angilion: I know what you're saying! In a ST:NG episode where they travel back in time and meet Mark Twain? He uses the term "negress" and the black lady (who is from the future) is NOT offended! Now THAT was a proper representation of what "positive future attitudes" should look like! No "long moralizing speeches" required (ST:OS).

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11367 Posts
Saturday, September 14, 2013 3:57:16 PM
You significantly changed the meaning of my post by ignoring most of the sentence you quoted three words from and all of the text it referred to.

It should be depicted in the context of a society in which it isn't an issue, so it shouldn't be depicted as anything of any importance at all.

ST:TOS failed in that respect with sex and "race"



does not have the same meaning as "ST:TOS failed".

There isn't much difference between the rest of my post and your reply supposedly disagreeing with it, e.g.

me: "they tried, but they were writing in the context of mid 1960s USA when they should have been writing in the context of mid 2260s UFP. [..] The idea was there, but the execution of it was dragging the baggage of the reality of the time and place in which the show was written and broadcast."

You: "I think they did as much as they could within the limits of that era."

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 8:38:29 PM

@ Angilion,
"ST:TOS failed"
First of all, that's sacrilege! Star Trek does not fail - we merely fail to see the meaning. But you are right, as far as it goes. But Nichelle Nichols wanted to quit Star Trek because all she did was answer phones, basically. Martin Luther King personally asked her to stay with the show because It wasn't important what she did, but that she was there. That black people would be sailing the stars alongside whites and Asians, Russians and americans.

So, yes she was a glorified receptionist with extremely nice gams, she was also groundbreaking. Whoopi Goldberg tells the story of, as a little girl, she saw a black woman on TV who wasn't a maid {Uhura} and it inspired her to be who she is today.

I don't think "Star Trek Failed". I think they did as much as they could within the limits of that era.

Difdor es moozma!
{original Vulcan for "live long and prosper"}

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11367 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 6:28:04 PM
There are no gay people in Star Trek. Still waiting for that.


I hope they do it properly and pay absolutely no attention to it within the film(s)/episode(s). It should be depicted in the context of a society in which it isn't an issue, so it shouldn't be depicted as anything of any importance at all.

ST:TOS failed in that respect with sex and "race" - they tried, but they were writing in the context of mid 1960s USA when they should have been writing in the context of mid 2260s UFP. So you had Uhura as a senior officer on the primary bridge crew flagship of the fleet, but depicted far too much as a telephone operator. The idea was there, but the execution of it was dragging the baggage of the reality of the time and place in which the show was written and broadcast.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11367 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 6:11:43 PM
But they are. Neither homo nor hetero may marry the same sex. Both homo and hetero can legally the oposite sex. You seem to have trouble with the definition of the word 'discrimination'.


Yes, and rich people can sleep in doorways, therefore rich people are in the same situation as homeless people, QED.

Are you aware that the same line of argument you're using was also used to support laws forbidding "inter-racial" marriages? That form of the argument was that the law stopped anyone marrying anyone of a different "race", therefore it was equality and not racist at all.

But your form is even flimsier, because at least the racist form did include equal treatment of people of all "races". Your form is superficial even for sophistry.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11367 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 6:03:57 PM
His fiancé dies on an away mission before Kirk can marry them.


The photo you posted shows why. He was wearing red. Someone should have warned him that in Kirk's day red + away mission is a very dangerous combination.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 5:07:36 PM

Does Data have a sexual orientation? He's an android so if he does couldn't that like of code be rewritten? He is fully functional and programed in a variety of pleasuring techniques.

In Star Trek Phase II {fan-films} Kirks nephew Peter is grown up, serving on the Enterprise's second 5-year mission, and is gay. His fiancé dies on an away mission before Kirk can marry them.


Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 5:02:16 PM

Nice twist MeGrendel but it doesn't work historically. Saying straights can't marry the same sex is a silly point used by people who don't have a rational arguement. Your point is that people who don't want it can't get it either so it's fair and gays cant enjoy marrying only people they don't want to.

In the past when one state allowed mixed race marriages but another did not, it was determined that a marriage in one state MUST be recognized in all states. A contract in one state is valid in all states. You can't just move to another state to get out of the contract. If a man marries his wife in California he can't just move to another state and not-be-married any longer.

If you haven't a leg to stand on it's best just to be silent.

djwajda
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 849 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 1:00:36 PM
[quote">There are no gay people in Star Trek[/quote">

maybe not in an entirely 'open' sense but there was this DS9 episode.

lesbian kiss

And not Trek but there's this

BSG gay kiss

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4483 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 12:47:33 PM
SmagBoy1-"But, the rights and benefits it grants to legally married people (state and federal) should be the same for heterosexual and homosexual people."

But they are. Neither homo nor hetero may marry the same sex. Both homo and hetero can legally the oposite sex. You seem to have trouble with the definition of the word 'discrimination'.

SmagBoy1-"Do you support that? Same EXACT situation."

Not the same, and I didn't support that.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I'm against gay marriage. I'm not. But rather than yelling about discrimination that does not exist, I realize there's actually a very simple solution.

You don't change the laws. You change the legal definition of Marriage. Change the 'one man and one woman' part to 'two individuals', and it's perfectly legal without changing all the laws.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4483 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 12:45:51 PM
SmagBoy1-"how about being legally married in one state, but having that legally married status not recognized by another state?"

Again, it is enforced across the board. If a heterosexual is married to the same sex in one state, it may not be recognized in another state.

Again, I'm waiting for the descrimination. Which requires one part of society to under differnent laws than another.

SmagBoy1-"As far as *everyone* having the same right to marry heterosexually, I won't even address that big steaming pile o' bigotry"

Actually, not bigotry at all. Just the facts.

SmagBoy1-"the government should not be in the marriage game."

With this agree.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 12:14:40 PM

"Well, seeing as same-sexed marriage is banned for ALL people"

Even the Feds are starting to accept same-sex marriage. The IRS is allowing gay couples to file joint federal income tax returns. Once Social Security and Medicaid accept it the fight's pretty much over.

SmagBoy1
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4229 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 12:12:03 PM
Okay, MeGrendel, how about being legally married in one state, but having that legally married status not recognized by another state? That affects inheritance, insurance, property ownership rights, taxes, benefits, privileges regarding legal and medical concerns.

As far as *everyone* having the same right to marry heterosexually, I won't even address that big steaming pile o' bigotry, as, to me, the government should not be in the marriage game. But, the rights and benefits it grants to legally married people (state and federal) should be the same for heterosexual and homosexual people, and based on the partner of their choice, not YOUR choice for them. Remember when it was illegal for black and white people to marry? Do you support that? Same EXACT situation.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4483 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 11:13:56 AM
oobaka-"Last time I checked, same sex marriage was banned in more than 1/2 the states."

Well, seeing as same-sexed marriage is banned for ALL people, it sounds like everyone is treated equally under that law.

I'm asking what one group of people are being denied that another group is not.

Jake_Justus
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 4874 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 11:11:41 AM
Gerry, you're right. It was very heavy-handed, nothing allegorical about it. Sort of like the "birth control" episode from the original series ("The Mark of Gideon").

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 10:27:43 AM

Jake - I remember that episode. Poorly written and heavy handed in it's moral tale. In the end though she got therapy to conform to societal norm instead of being herself.

Starfleet still has no homos. Doesn't matter when you're shooting a phazer, but I wouldn't mind having a guy character with a crush on Kirk 555



LordJim
Male, 50-59, Europe
 4456 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 9:49:15 AM
True story, I 'met' Shatner in the late 80's in London. (Met in the sense that we were in the same space and I recognised him and did a double-take.) I told him how much I enjoyed his work. He was very pleasant and asked if I wanted an autograph, I said yes please and he asked 'William Shatner or James T Kirk?' You'll have to take my word for it but I had the presence of mind to dead-pan 'T.J. Hooker.' He laughed out loud and did it.

On rarity value alone I reckon my TJ Hooker autograph is worth more than any number of James T Kirk autographs.


oobaka
Male, 40-49, Canada
 573 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 9:47:41 AM
MeGrendel
Last time I checked, same sex marriage was banned in more than 1/2 the states.
As far as rights go, that's a big one, don't ya think?

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4483 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 8:45:31 AM
SmagBoy1-"when members of the LGBT community have the same right, privileges and benefits as the rest of us"

Pray-tell what right, privileges and benefits the 'rest of us' have that they dont?

AvatarJohn
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 1001 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 8:31:23 AM
The great thing about that episode, "The Outcast", is that they had a way to cure the deviancy, and the people who were cured were actually grateful for it once they were made normal! If only...

Jake_Justus
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 4874 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 8:15:33 AM

The Star Trek:NG episode "The Outcast" dealt very blatantly with the subject of sexual identity and being persecuted because of it.


5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25004 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 8:11:36 AM
The things people used to get all upset about! Eh?
Separate beds for married couples (until The Flintstones!) kissing while moving, who is kissing whom...

Yay Canada!

Draculya
Male, 40-49, Asia
 12180 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 8:07:44 AM
"Roddenberry planned on Ens. Roe to be lesbian" I'm good with that. Mmmm, lots of potential.

Draculya
Male, 40-49, Asia
 12180 Posts
Friday, September 13, 2013 8:06:55 AM
"Out-freakin'-standing! Way to go, Bill!"

In Star Trek Memories, Shat vehemently denies their lips touched.

Anyhow the first actual interracial kiss was between Sammy Davis, Jr. and Nancy Sinatra several months before in Movin' with Nancy... even though it was a lame peck on the cheek.

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