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Lake At The North Pole? Not Really. 300 Miles Away

Hits: 6219 | Rating: (2.1) | Category: Science | Added by: 5Cats
Page: 1 2 3 46 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
mesovortex
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 408 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 8:45:26 PM
5Cats:
The sun is actually very stable in long term trends.

The data is now divergent:



And of CO2 and temp, try a more accurate and recent set of data:
http://www.southwestclimatechange.org/files/cc/figures/icecore_records.jpg

You can see that CO2 and global temps closely follow each other. There is a mechanism for CO2 to effect temperature and it's measurable. Whereas the CO2 may have been released later, and the initial warming may have been something else, it always follows that more CO2 equals a warmer overall temperature trend.

Also for the paleoclimate graph, google image search is a wonderful thing. I found many places it was debunked, including:

mesovortex
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 408 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 8:38:06 PM
5cats:
"NOT melted water on top of thick Artic ice. "

You are getting major fundamentals wrong. The arctic ice is between 1 and 2 meters thick right now. That's it. Most of the ice in the northern hemisphere is not in the arctic ocean. It's Greenland.

Greenland is melting.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?n=164

mesovortex
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 408 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 8:33:15 PM
5Cats:
Sea ice around antarctica is a long way away from the south pole.

*facepalm*

"First off, it's not that simple to change the the chemical balance of a planet's atmosphere. "

It is. Life has done it all the time on earth. If it weren't for anerobic bacteria, we wouldn't have an oxygenated atmosphere. It's not about causing complex chemical reactions in the sky, it's just emitting gases that weren't there before but are now. It took millions of years to take carbon from the air and form oil and natural gas. We're burning all of that and re-releasing it in the course of 150 years.

If you don't think that's enough to cause massive changes, then you're ignorant.

mesovortex
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 408 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 8:30:45 PM
5cats:

Do you know the difference between sea ice and the antarctic ice cap? Apparently, you don't.

Man has caused entire species to disappear. We've rerouted entire rivers. Yes, we can cause climate to change. We are changing the content of the atmosphere. We are causing climate to change.

You also quote mined me. I said that the US data isn't used to determine a global trend. It's incorporated into SOME data, but not all, and it is too small to actually determine a trend one way or the other globally.

The graph posted of past temps and CO2 levels is still inaccurate. It isn't the scientific consensus anymore. I'm sure it's a lot older than 12 years, and from all accounts probably came from a high school textbook - which is hardly up to date science.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24120 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 8:13:59 PM
@davymid: I sometimes put a cat face: >^..^<
On my non-political posts, just for you! :heart:

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24120 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 7:50:51 PM
Of course the South Pole Ice is doing GREAT! In fact: when the South Pole Ice was thinning? The North Pole was fine...
Now the NP is thinning, and the SP is fine...
Completely UN-related I'm sure!

Lots Of Proof Here!

Also pictures of the submarines at the North Pole in both 1959 and 1987... open water. ACTUAL open water at the North Pole!

NOT 300 miles away.

NOT melted water on top of thick Artic ice.

K?

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12013 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 7:48:59 PM
Amazing how FACTS always debunk AGW, eh?

5Cats post before I click? Yeah, still got it baby!

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24120 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 7:43:09 PM
We use multiple satellite measurements.

To determine the Global Temperature going back 3,000 years! ONLY satellite data! Yup! Yuppers! Nothing but the best! Wait, what? Sputnik? 1957? NAW!

...the Sun (is) pretty much stable.


LOLZ! You are SO FUNNY! LMAO!

NEXT!

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1712 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 7:37:07 PM
It's ok guys just have faith, follow in tune and play your part. Do this and this time we'll really have the power to change the weather to what ever we want it to be.



richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1712 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 7:33:37 PM
(cont)
"Over those time spans, things weren't all equal."

They still aren't and never will be. Just another reason you can't change the climate to whatever you want it to be.

"Right now, the only thing that's really wildly changing is CO2 levels."

Really, so Methane, Sulfuryl Fluoride, Sulfur Hexafluoride, Hexafluoroethane, Nitrous Oxide, and hydrogen sulfide isn't increasing? Many of which are produced by green tech. like in constructing lithium batteries and building the Prius, and are 1000's of times worse, literally.

"Volcanic activity and the Sun are pretty much stable."
Guess you haven't heard about the lasting effects of the Mount Pinatubo eruption or the constant volcanic eruptions in Iceland and the Congo. Or that the solar maximum was in autumn of 2011 and is very rare twin cycle because another peak is predicted next year in 2014 and another possibly in 2015 according to Nasa.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24120 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 7:31:19 PM
@mesovortex: Climate Change = 1 part Human + 99,999 parts Nature.

Any further questions?

Even if humans WERE "causing AGW"? Mother Nature has seen it ALL before! There are checks and balances built into the system for MILLIONS of years! Life goes on.

You cannot start from an anomalous year, 1998, to determine a trend.

FUNNY! Oh wait, you are aware that's EXACTLY what the AGW Alarmists did? Picked a date which made their data look best. If they took data starting 20 years earlier? Their numbers fail to show overall warming... just a little FYI...

Did you bother to do any research before posting this?

I bet I've done more than you... real research: Not "read things I agree with" eh?

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1712 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 7:28:48 PM
(cont)
"All you have to do to change a climate is change the content of the atmosphere. We're changing the content of the atmosphere, ergo we are changing climate."

First off, it's not that simple to change the the chemical balance of a planet's atmosphere.
Secondly, by that logic, a fart is changing the planet's climate. Stop passing gas.

"The fact that CO2 and temps don't always correlate (even though some times they do if you look at trends in the past 800,000 years) doesn't mean CO2 can't (and does) cause warming. "

First of that was 600,000,000 years of no correlation, not 800,000. Secondly, It really doesn't support that it changes the climate. Especially since there has been multible times more of it before with no reaction, it is heavier than Oxygen and their for remains closer to the surface and is absorbed in titanic quantities by organisms.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1712 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 7:28:17 PM
mesovortex: "Thankfully we don't use land based measurements in the US"

Wrong, NOAA establishes many of these stations and incorporates them into their statistics. We use satellites as well, though they didn't come into taking temperatures until 1979 and are notorious for providing bad data as well, because of things like orbital decay, diurnal correction, and how Mid Troposphere decadal trends are interpreted by RSS vs. UAH. Consequently, the entire dataset gathered has to be reconfigured every 4-5 years with the last one being in 2010.

"your graph of past temps is somewhat old and inaccurate"

12 years old yes, inaccurate no, it is still the accepted stance of the scientific community in general and was cited and confirmed in 9 out of 9 of the most recent studies in 2013 alone.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24120 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 7:23:59 PM
The ACTUAL North Pole was "open water" in both 1959 AND 1987. I'm sure AGW was responsible for that too, eh?
@mesovortex: You'd listen to facts? You haven't so far...
"Man can too" = LOLZ!
You're comparing 6,000 years of human activity to 600,000,000 years of nature? Equally? Go ON!

@Simbosan: A Pro-AGW thread about the North Pole Melting was put up on IAB. It failed to notice that the "event" is: #1 some 300 miles away from the pole. #2 Not uncommon at all! #3 The water is a foot or two deep, not "open".
Although that CAN happen, open Artic water, it's not because of AGW since it's been happening for EONS.
Ok?

Gee...another 5Cats political post where THE TRUTH is spouted.

Fixed it for you @patchy! Say, why is the truth "right wing rhetoric" in YOUR books? Do you dispute the facts in this article? No?

mesovortex
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 408 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 6:02:39 PM
5cats:
Did you bother to do any research before posting this?

mesovortex
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 408 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 6:01:44 PM
Wrong:
You cannot start from an anomalous year, 1998, to determine a trend. If you take the overall trend, we're STILL warming.

Also, the CERN/cosmic ray argument is dead wrong. There is no correlation of data, and no way for cosmic rays to change climate to the degree we're seeing today.

mesovortex
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 408 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 6:00:10 PM
richanddead:
Correlation is not causation. The fact that CO2 and temps don't always correlate (even though some times they do if you look at trends in the past 800,000 years) doesn't mean CO2 can't (and does) cause warming.

Over those time spans, there were MANY factors that effected climate. CO2, if all other things are equal, warms climate. Over those time spans, things weren't all equal.

Right now, the only thing that's really wildly changing is CO2 levels. Volcanic activity and the Sun are pretty much stable. So, change the atmosphere, change the climate.

To think that people who accept AGW ignore facts are silly. I'd say those that deny it are those that ignore the facts.

mesovortex
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 408 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 5:57:56 PM
richanddead:
Thankfully we don't use land based measurements in the US (2% of the earth's surface) to determine global temperature trends. We use multiple satellite measurements.

Also, your graph of past temps is somewhat old and inaccurate, and it doesn't mean that man cannot change the climate.

Nature can change things.
Man can too.

All you have to do to change a climate is change the content of the atmosphere. We're changing the content of the atmosphere, ergo we are changing climate.

(Climate scientists are well aware of past phenomenon and past trends that happened without humans.)

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1712 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 5:50:39 PM
Not to mention that 70.6% of todays temperature measuring stations are still considered in poor or worst condition for accumulating accurate temperature data. But go on forecast the weather for the next 10,000 years when you can predict it accurately for a week from now.





richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1712 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 5:41:53 PM






Sources:
link
link

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1712 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 5:33:43 PM
"not the reasonable GOP of the past that started things like the EPA."

oh, Nixon is @lauriloo's idea of a reasonable GOP of the past, didn't see that coming.


But on the point of global warming, the earth's normal average temperature is 22 degrees Celsius or 71.6 degrees Fahrenheit. During which, CO2 levels have fluctuated wildly and have not correlate to temperature, even for several time spans lasting 100's of millions of years. Nasa states the average temperature in 2012 was about 58.3 degrees Fahrenheit or 14.6 degrees Celsius, still far colder than the normal AET. It has been warmer than the present times during 7 different periods in the last 10,000 years alone, most recently the Minoan and Roman warming periods. All of it was perfectly natural and actually fueled both civilization and propagation of life and ecosystems.

You can't stagnate the earth, stop trying and wasting all of our resources and monies on it.

drawman61
Male, 50-59, Europe
 5150 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 4:02:53 PM


Howler81
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 284 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 3:27:40 PM
Oh, it's all fun and games, isn't it? Except three of Santa's workshop elves have drowned in the past year alone after falling through the thin ice. You keep making jokes, but we'll see how silly this all is once there are no more toys at Christmas.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16716 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 3:00:17 PM
lauriloo: The evidence shows no significant warming in the past 15 years. Actual recorded temperatures are well below all the AGW theory models. CERN even discovered, by accident, that clouds and sunlight have more influence on our climate than man made CO2.

Sorry, but scaremongering people into doing things that adversely impact their economy and wasting billions of government dollars on "Green" boondoggles doesn't inspire confidence. It's about as insane as buying fresh salmon on a canned tuna budget.

Cartunze
Male, 60-69, Western US
 826 Posts
Sunday, August 04, 2013 3:00:09 PM
Since we are getting all personal, I was wondering if you use the same avatar on Huffington Post, mykunter?

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