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Homicide Rates Before Guns? [Pic+]

Hits: 8700 | Rating: (1.9) | Category: Science | Added by: 5Cats
Page: 1 2 3 4    Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
auburnjunky
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 10157 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 11:37:01 AM
"So you also think people should be able to own grenades, high-grade explosives, heavy machine guns, rocket launchers and tanks?"

Is there a 200 year old equivalent of these things that people could own back then? If so, yes.

Canoas
Male, 18-29, Europe
 429 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 11:32:52 AM
"So sick of the comparison of Muskets and today's firearms.

If you do this, you MUST compare quill pens, and keyboards. You must compare newspapers, and websites. You must compare midnight riders, with fiber optic cable.

The constitution is not a living document. It is meant to apply forever, regardless of technological advancement."

So you also think people should be able to own grenades, high-grade explosives, heavy machine guns, rocket launchers and tanks?

auburnjunky
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 10157 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 11:26:15 AM
So sick of the comparison of Muskets and today's firearms.

If you do this, you MUST compare quill pens, and keyboards. You must compare newspapers, and websites. You must compare midnight riders, with fiber optic cable.

The constitution is not a living document. It is meant to apply forever, regardless of technological advancement.

DrProfessor
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 3884 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 11:25:45 AM
This information is utterly useless.

For one, it points to a correlation and not a causation. If you want scientific proof of something, you have to control for any other possible cause of the data trend. For all we know, the advancement of civilization over this time period led to a more settled and less warlike society across Europe, in literally any other possible way.

Second, how accurate can we possibly expect data from the year 1000 to be? Even though the linked blog post suggests that England had "excellent records," in all reality they would have been anything but.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5056 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 11:22:42 AM
mCGovern1981

"But you buy the lie that disarming everyone guarantees less crime......"

Nope. I like guns. I have a gun. I'm a good shot too.

I just fail to see the necessity of fringe assault weapons. I happen to think a simple hand gun or shotgun are fine for personal protection and a simple hunting rifle is fine for hunting.

I think big guns made to look like assault weapons and loaded with features and abilities to fire hundreds of rounds in seconds are for dickless losers with persecution complexes and fight tyranny fantasies or sociopaths. Just my opinion.

Canoas
Male, 18-29, Europe
 429 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 11:17:30 AM
"Our 2nd amend was not written saying only appicable to todays tech otherwise the 1st would only apply to freedom of printing presses."
So you also think people should be able to own grenades, high-grade explosives, heavy machine guns, rocket launchers and tanks?

"You say the weapons are quite different but you banned them all pretty much and now that it's fail you've gone after sharp objects. That's how logical anti-gun arguments are."
It has nothing to do with pro-gun or anti-gun. Over here weapons that can cause severe damage are banned and you need a licence to own them or are not allowed to carry them with you outside your property. You can own an hunting rifle if you have a licence, but you still can't take it to the mall. You can own an axe without a licence, but you can't go to the street with it. You can't carry around blades bigger than 4 inches or that open automatically either.
I support this sensible decision.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13519 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 11:01:37 AM
So claiming that a pistol from the 17th century is not the same as a 21st century assault rifle leads to not having sharp objects?
I find how logical pro-gun arguments are.



Our 2nd amend was not written saying only appicable to todays tech otherwise the 1st would only apply to freedom of printing presses. You say the weapons are quite different but you banned them all pretty much and now that it's fail you've gon after sharp objects. That's how logical anti-gun arguments are.

Byfield
Male, 18-29, Europe
 468 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 10:55:32 AM
Correlation. Social stability, policing and culture reduced violence.

Canoas
Male, 18-29, Europe
 429 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 10:52:28 AM
"And you can't have either along with many types of sharp object that's where your type of thinking leads."
So claiming that a pistol from the 17th century is not the same as a 21st century assault rifle leads to not having sharp objects?
I find how logical pro-gun arguments are.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13519 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 10:50:17 AM
@Canoas

Got rid of the "to" ME NEED EDIT BUTTON!!

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13519 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 10:49:29 AM
@HolyGod

But you buy the lie that disarming everyone guarantees less crime......

Canoas
Male, 18-29, Europe
 429 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 10:49:22 AM
"But you buy the lie that disarming everyone guarantees to less crime..."
I very much doubt anyone here has ever claimed that.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13519 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 10:41:45 AM
@Evil_Eye

And you can't have either along with many types of sharp object that's where your type of thinking leads.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5056 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 10:32:19 AM
"Obviously, as guns became more common in Europe, murder and violent crime rates declined... So we might as wall say "History proves more guns result in less crime." Because it does."

"Obviously, as microwaves became more common in Europe, murder and violent crime rates declined... So we might as wall say "History proves more microwaves result in less crime." Because it does."

Derpty derp derpity derp derp...

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5056 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 10:27:34 AM
Canoas

"I'm not sure if 5cats is just trolling or if he's really this stupid.."

Do you want an honest answer to that question?

normalfreak2
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1942 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 10:27:21 AM
Upon further inspection of the data, I'm finding some issues. Source data, DO want some. Until then the graph is misleading. I had high hopes 5Cats you'd bring some "facts" to the table and not some opinions.

Canoas
Male, 18-29, Europe
 429 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 10:17:01 AM
"But it's pretty clear (to me) that folks were slaughtering other folks LONG before guns arrived. Since the 'dawn of time' even! To "blame guns" is just... medieval."
And dogs have been killing each other and other animals since the 'dawn of time'. To "blame bad owners" or "blame pit fights" is just... medieval.

Evil_Eye
Male, 18-29, Europe
 1451 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 10:15:47 AM
17th Century:


21st Century:


You can't say they are the same thing. That is like saying a smart car is the same as a tank.

Canoas
Male, 18-29, Europe
 429 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 10:14:07 AM
I'm not sure if 5cats is just trolling or if he's really this stupid..

I do love the fact that there's not a single source in the entire article except for half a print screen of another graphic with no source. This is simply hilarious.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26192 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 10:08:29 AM
Whoops! "DID the arrival..." My bad!

Of course it's mostly unknown or unknowable: records weren't all that accurate back then. Lots of "stuff" went on that people didn't bother even recording.

But it's pretty clear (to me) that folks were slaughtering other folks LONG before guns arrived. Since the 'dawn of time' even! To "blame guns" is just... medieval.

Note: the "counter" in the upper right corner is "pure gold"

Krogholt
Male, 18-29, Europe
 22 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 10:03:29 AM
The author makes the usual fallacy of assuming correlation = causation. Their argumentation relates equally well to anything else that was introduced in Europe around the 1400s. I'm going to claim it was Gutenburgs invention of the printing press, and my statement that the distribution of books reduces the rate of homicides is as well supported by their data as the claim that gun-ownership reduced homicides.

madduck
Female, 50-59, Europe
 5960 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 9:58:07 AM
Well, it would be interesting but they did not actually allow for other factors really did they?

normalfreak2
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1942 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 9:56:38 AM
There's some interesting points brought up here. One of the gripes I have here is who knows what people were truly guilty of back then. Most of the time a King/Lord/Magistrate could simply think you were guilty and proof or no proof cya.

This is interesting nonetheless.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26192 Posts
Monday, May 20, 2013 9:46:02 AM
Link: Homicide Rates Before Guns? [Pic+] [Rate Link] - The the arrival of guns in Europe bring peace or slaughter? History is interesting!

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