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What is a Human Being?

Hits: 4813 | Rating: (2.9) | Category: Science | Added by: junkaroo
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5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21924 Posts
Sunday, May 05, 2013 11:17:46 AM
@Geogypsy: ic! No worries! Sounds dreadful. That "argument" is fool-proof. Also: unDISprovable! So it sucks.

It starts with the (false, mistaken) assumption that "consciousness" exists. It might just be an illusion or something...

Things go downhill from there (in that particular theory) when you start GUESSING the "why" of the Universe. There may OR MAY NOT BE a "why" it's not a "given".

This particular video manages to (mostly) avoid these pitfalls

sutra46
Female, 40-49, Asia
 2388 Posts
Sunday, May 05, 2013 8:59:49 AM
@junkaroo at the end of the vid there is a website listed but did not fi d it.

Thought you may know if there is another/ origional source for this vid.vimeo.
No worries. I get that you found it on

sutra46
Female, 40-49, Asia
 2388 Posts
Sunday, May 05, 2013 8:58:35 AM
@junkaroo at the end of the vid there is a website listed. It's not coming up in search.

Thought you may know if there is another/ origional source for this vid.
No worries. I get that you found it on Vimeo. Thought it was a link not the original content.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33696 Posts
Sunday, May 05, 2013 6:45:43 AM

Mind yoga lead to the holocaust

Geogypsy
Male, 18-29, Canada
 2311 Posts
Sunday, May 05, 2013 5:59:08 AM
There's just no winning an argument if the limitations of consciousness are considered to be the only reliable measure of reality.

Geogypsy
Male, 18-29, Canada
 2311 Posts
Sunday, May 05, 2013 5:58:15 AM
@5Cats, yeah, I was just venting because only hours prior to viewing this post I'd watched a documentary recommended by a friend. The premise of this documentary was that consciousness is the epitomized purpose of the Universe and that without it, the Universe ceases to serve a function or even ceases to be. Which makes perfect sense if direct observation is the only way that we may know things...but, we may also know things indirectly.
For example, when I sleep, the Universe doesn't stop.
Well, how can you know that for sure?
Because time continued to move forward.
But how can you know if you didn't observe it?
Because I just know that it did; it's my empirical knowledge that time continues to progress; the planet continues to revolve no matter what hour it may be in my waking life so I presume that it continues in my sleep as well.
Well that seems like magical thinking to me...Do you believe in a God by any chance???

GAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!


5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21924 Posts
Sunday, May 05, 2013 5:47:30 AM
@junkaroo: It's a nice one! Fairly clear, fairly concise, sticks to "the point" rather well!

@turdy: Yeah, I think you missed that in order to transfer it (the 'mind') into a machine it would have to be 'a copy'. Unless we discovered the 'physical power' which makes the mind (soul? spirit?) exist? We might be able to transfer (NOT copy) that... big maybe.

@Langer: Don't forget Doppelgangers and Kindermorders (cannibalistic witches) too! Very scary stuff! Used to be common in European (and other) folklore.

junkaroo
Male, 30-39, Australia
 232 Posts
Sunday, May 05, 2013 3:57:13 AM
Holy it got through? Thanks guys! :) Nice to see the kinds of discussion it set off in here.

@sutra46 - I don't understand the question exactly? But this is the original video, hosted on vimeo. Should be able to click on the 'vimeo' there and it'll take you there.

Langer
Male, 18-29, Europe
 369 Posts
Sunday, May 05, 2013 3:03:25 AM
'Human Being' is just a title that we use as a common platform to characterise other creatures that we accept as being the same as us, visually, intellectually (to an extent) and share a common origin

It's the same as trying to define a species, and after how many generations of evolution does one species change into another...there's no binary cutoff point that changes you from A to a mutually exclusive B

Philosophy is fun to play around with, but unless you're up to date with cutting edge scientific knowledge, it's really only for entertainment and storytelling

Also, note how the most popular horror monsters are 'false humans'; vampires, mummies, warewolves...they all appear similar, and often have intelligence, however due to the whole 'wanting to eat us' bit, we reject them, which as a massively negative factor for our species, we throw emotions like fear, anger and resentment towards them (in fiction, I'm not saying they're real lol)

Sleepyhallow
Male, 50-59, Western US
 1029 Posts
Sunday, May 05, 2013 2:47:57 AM
"Mind Yoga", huh.
I call it the logical conclusion to a Common Sense train of thought but I am glad to see someone else gets it.

sutra46
Female, 40-49, Asia
 2388 Posts
Saturday, May 04, 2013 9:19:12 PM
@junkaroo love the post. Can't though find the site. Do you know the original site this comes from - please let me know

turdburglar
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3059 Posts
Saturday, May 04, 2013 8:50:23 PM

...or did I get it wrong....
NO! Not possible.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21924 Posts
Saturday, May 04, 2013 8:50:03 PM
Things don't cease to exist if someone doesn't observe them. If there were no "consciousness" in the universe? It would carry on as usual. Except, of course, that no one would notice...

(Because, see, noting would be conscious, eh?)

Speaking of which: G'nighty! Zzzzz
Guzzz... nup nup nup...
Strawberry sponge cake is the best...
zzzZZZzzz

turdburglar
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3059 Posts
Saturday, May 04, 2013 8:48:02 PM

5cats and h2oxy -

If you had a copy of someone's consciousness in a machine, that's exactly what it would be, a copy.


@h2oxy: Nicely said! I agree.



You misunderstood the video. It agreed with the idea of a human consciousness in in a computer not being the same as a human. I agree with all three of you, it is more than that.

Geogypsy
Male, 18-29, Canada
 2311 Posts
Saturday, May 04, 2013 8:17:42 PM
Arrrg, I hate this concept that consciousness is all of what defines existence and that things simply cease to be if not observed.

Cogito ergo sum can kiss my blissfully unaware sleeping ass.

Of course, it could just be an act of faith that all within the Universe will continue to exist if I cease to be but I think that it's far more likely that consciousness tries to find a way to defend itself.

Consciousness: "Oh yeah, how do YOU know if you continue to exist without me?"
Unconsciousness: "I really don't care...I'm unconscious, nothing in your realm of perception matters to me in the least."


5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21924 Posts
Saturday, May 04, 2013 6:23:31 PM
If you had a copy of someone's consciousness in a machine, that's exactly what it would be, a copy.


@h2oxy: Nicely said! I agree.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21924 Posts
Saturday, May 04, 2013 6:20:57 PM
Um, yeah? I knew all that stuff, but it's nice to hear it explained so clearly

Of course, in typical "mystical" fashion: it opens the doors to many MORE questions, eh?

h2oxy
Male, 18-29, Canada
 286 Posts
Saturday, May 04, 2013 6:15:19 PM
This was great up until 7:20. Consciousness is not a thing, it is a property, and emergent property of the processes of the brain. The idea presented that a human minus a consciousness is a zombie (let alone possible) is a terrible no sequitur seeing as the things mentioned, "ghoul, zombie, undead," do not exist, much like the idea of consciousness being a thing that can exist on it's own. If you had a copy of someone's consciousness in a machine, that's exactly what it would be, a copy.

paperduck
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1577 Posts
Saturday, May 04, 2013 6:04:55 PM
I guess this is what passes for spirituality nowadays... Started off okay then lost train of thought. His conclusion is flawed. Is a person who is unconscious not a human? What about severely impaired brains? They are human beings too.

The human part and being part was nonesense.

junkaroo
Male, 30-39, Australia
 232 Posts
Saturday, May 04, 2013 5:26:53 PM
Link: What is a Human Being? [Rate Link] - A nifty animated video asking philosophical questions.


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