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Which Religion Cares Most About the Homeless [Pic]

Hits: 8353 | Rating: (2.6) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: Draculya
Page: 13 4 5 6 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5718 Posts
Wednesday, May 01, 2013 6:45:01 AM
@5cats: You've missed my point. Calling a baby solipsistic is not an answer either. By your definition, since a baby doesn't believe in God it therefore MUST actively NOT believe. But failing that, it all comes back to burden of proof. A person's default position is always disbelief, until someone comes along and makes a claim, like God exists. Then it's up to that person to convince me, and if they can't it doesn't mean I have a belief, the person merely could have done a crappy job of arguing their belief. As @Angilion has said, you don't seem to have the word "disbelief" in your vocabulary and try to shoehorn "belief" into everything.

New_Guy
Male, 30-39, Europe
 401 Posts
Wednesday, May 01, 2013 2:55:07 AM
that guy is a drating genius... exploiting the "I am better then you"'ism.

ak47reaper
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 117 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 8:07:32 PM
patchgrabber,

monsterzero already tried that he got counter trolled.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25772 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:59:20 PM
@Canoas... Believing that a proposition is untrue is not a lack of belief and it isn't the opposite of belief. That should be very obvious.

Phew! Thanks @Angilion! It seems so obvious to ME!
Your "4 definitions" at 4:58:16 PM work for me. I know we've disagreed over this very subject before. Am I smarter now or have your definitions improved?

I know that I don't know.

To me? That's different than the other three, BUT it still counts as "a belief about life on Tau Ceti". That it's A belief, not THE belief...

"My belief is: I'm certain I do not know."
"I'm certain there is NO WAY of ever knowing, therefor I do not know."

Different! One retains the possibility of knowledge (Gnostic) while the other does not...

idk if I'm arguing or agreeing at this point...
(prepares to abandon thread!)

monsterzero
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 346 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:44:44 PM
@AK47:
Ummm...
Yeah.
You do realize I meant the person who took the picture was a troll right?
Or are you so used to people calling you a troll you just automatically thought I meant you?

ledzeppeloyd
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2304 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:09:06 PM
haha i was gunna say the atheism bowl looks pretty full

sutra46
Female, 40-49, Asia
 2481 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 5:37:47 PM
Have you heard of the agnostic, dyslexic, insomniac who lay awake at night wondering if there was a Dog?

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11515 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 5:34:25 PM
Hey Canoas, did you intend to make a fool of yourself? That's what you've done by being completely wrong while ranting at someone.

Believing that a proposition is untrue is not a lack of belief and it isn't the opposite of belief. That should be very obvious, so it's rather strange that you don't understand the difference.


Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11515 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 5:15:41 PM
You cannot "not believe" something! You can believe it exists, does NOT exist or that you don't know. ALL THREEE are "beliefs" ok?


Those three things are beliefs, but they are not the only possible options. Why do you assume that it is absolutely necessary to adopt a faith-based position about everything? That's obviously wrong.

I'll pick something other than religion, since religion tends to make people stop thinking:

Are there people living on a planet orbiting Tau Ceti?

I don't know. That is not a belief. I don't believe I don't know. I know that I don't know. No faith required.

Do I believe that there are people living on a planet orbiting Tau Ceti? No.

Do I believe that there are not people living on a planet orbiting Tau Ceti? No.

I do not have a belief regarding people living on a planet orbiting Tau Ceti.

Belief and knowledge are *different things*.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11515 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 5:03:22 PM
Strictly speaking, gnosticism has a different meaning in the context of Christianity, but that's archaic because it was violently suppressed as heresy long ago. I think it's valid to use it as a general opposite to agnosticism.

Here's the definition of agnosticism by the person who created the term:

That it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism.

Thomas Huxley, 1889



It's obviously an answer to a different question to (a)theism. It's not a third answer to the same question.


Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11515 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 4:58:16 PM
(a)theism and (a)gnosticism are answers to different questions, not different answers to the same question. That's even explicitly stated in the words themselves! One is about belief, the other is about knowledge - two different things.

Agnosticism is the general principle that you shouldn't claim certain knowledge without objective proof. It applies to everything, not just religion.

So in matters of religion there are at least 4 basic positions:

Agnostic theist: Does not claim certain knowledge about the existence of god(s). Believes in god(s) as an act of faith.

Agnostic atheist: Does not claim certain knowledge about the existence of god(s). Does not believe in god(s).

Gnostic theist: Claims certain knowledge of the existence of god(s).

Gnostic atheist: Claims certain knowledge of the non-existence of god(s).

Canoas
Male, 18-29, Europe
 429 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 4:39:48 PM
@5cats
you just went full retard. You either believe or you don't. Not believing = Lack of belief = No belief. Believing something isn't true means you don't believe in it. BY DEFINITION. There's no argument about this, it doesn't matter what your tiny brain thinks, DEFINITION ARE DEFINITIONS. "Hurr durr I don't think it's like that". Doesn't matter, it's the definition.

"Disbelief is a FORM OF belief: You believe it's not true!"
No, it's the opposite. disbelief is not a form of belief, it's the EXACT FCKING OPPOSITE of it. How hard is that to understand? Even a 6 year old knows this.
That's like saying dislike is a form of liking, being blind is a form of seeing and not getting kicked in the balls is a form of getting kicked in the balls.

Seriously, you're pathetic.


@Shinymetal
"5cats did you even read my comment or did you just skim through it"
Why are you even asking that? It's 5cats.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25772 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 4:10:50 PM
@ShinyMetal:
Question: Does God(s) exist?
Answers: Yes, No, Maybe, Impossible to say one way or another (different than "maybe").

ALL THREE are answers to the SAME question! Yes they are 4 separate answers, duh! But they all have this in common: they are answers to the same question!

Thus: Theism, Atheism & etc are ALL answers to the same question too.
To pretend otherwise is... idk what.
To lump "maybe" in with "no" is just wrong! They are two separate answers!
Disbelief is a FORM OF belief: You believe it's not true!
Thinking 101...

Elementary my dear Watson!

I put quotes around "belief" to closely identify it with the earlier "not believe". Clarity, not a "mistake".

Nerd_Rage
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 426 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 4:03:04 PM
Now THERE'S a homeless guy i'd give money to. In agnostic of course.

Shinymetal
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 168 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:48:04 PM
5cats did you even read my comment or did you just skim through it. It explains very clearly the difference between disbelief and belief.

"You cannot "not believe" something! You can believe it exists, does NOT exist or that you don't know. ALL THREEE are "beliefs" ok?"

no they are not all three beliefs. Thats why you had to put quotation marks around beliefs. thats your own misguided interperetation of what a belief is when i already listed the definitions last post. It's not that I believe that I dont believe. That doesnt make any sense. I know I dont believe. Thats called disbelief. and if we really need to define knowledge from belief than you are more delusional than I thought. with your logic belief in disbelief is belief in disbelief is belief in disbelief... and so on forever. You so very often flat out refuse to acknowledge your own logical inconsistencies to fit your own warped agenda. Good day sir.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25772 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:02:51 PM
@gargaflute: One penny from the Hindu too...

That's not a "hairclip" in the Buddist bowl! It's a Carabiner!

gargaflute
Male, 18-29, Canada
 118 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:40:07 PM
One penny from the jew of course.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25772 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:38:28 PM
@ShinyMetal: 5C: "What is your belief about God?"
SM: "I have no beliefs about God"
5C: "So you believe you have no beliefs?"
SM: "Yes. I mean NO! I mean, wait... what?"



Do NOT think of a dog! (Ancient Zen paradox)

You cannot "not believe" something! You can believe it exists, does NOT exist or that you don't know. ALL THREEE are "beliefs" ok?

I believe I do not believe in anything at all!

@ak47reaper: Solipsism Nicely done! Very nice indeed.

blackcatseye
Female, 30-39, Europe
 656 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:27:32 PM
LOL Buddhist. Hair elastic.

ak47reaper
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 117 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:17:00 PM
5Cats,

you belief the proper punishment for deceit immolation. god forbid your wife ever lie to you.
"sorry honey not tonight I've got a headache."
"burn!!!"

ak47reaper
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 117 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:10:58 PM
patchgrabber,

baby are solipsist

Shinymetal
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 168 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:06:22 PM
5cats: "The act of "religion" is entirely human. A belief in "a God" requires faith, which is also human.
Belief in "NO God" is exactly the same: it is "a belief" which requires "faith" since it's impossible to prove one way or the other..."

This is the typical way religious people like to equate Atheism with there own religion even though they by definition are absolutely different. Atheism is not a belief it is a disbelief. You say there is an all powerful entity that YOU BELIEVE exists. I DISBELIEVE that claim as you have no evidence to prove otherwise.

Now just to clarify:

BELIEF is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.

DISBELIEF is unwillingness or inability to believe; doubt about the truth or verisimilitude of something.

Atheism is religious disbelief and requires a complete LACK of faith. Please stop spouting this tired

Cartunze
Male, 60-69, Western US
 834 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:59:49 PM
Beggars would probably do better if they left off the "God Bless" on the bottom of their signs.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25772 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:59:17 PM
@patchy: Babies have baby brains, they don't believe OR disbelieve in very much at all in the beginning... mostly they eat and sleep.

They LEARN as they grow, eh?

LordJim
Male, 50-59, Europe
 4610 Posts
Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:47:47 PM
5Cats

Begging scams are as old as the hills, someone was probably doing something similar in Babylon - which tribe gives most? There is a whole lexicon of 15th - 19th century slang for begging scams, as I'm sure you know. It's entertaining.

No-one is making you give and you can disapprove of feckless rogues without wanting to immolate them. That's a bit harsh.

Anytime you feel the urge to burn strangers you should take a step back and ask where that's coming from.

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