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I Don't Want Atheism Shoved Down My Throat [Pic]

Hits: 11139 | Rating: (3.3) | Category: Community & Lifestyle | Added by: sweepofdeath
Page: 1 2 35 6 7 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Denogginizer
Male, 30-39, Western US
 666 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:54:12 AM
Oh, hey, another anti-God post. Haven't seen one in a whole day. How fresh and creative for this site.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4482 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:47:09 AM
@5cats,
I think the issue here is that religious folks can't conceive of a Universe without a creator. Therefore your feeling is that my religious belief is that I don't have one. What I'm saying is that, when you don't take a creator into consideration, lack of belief is not a belief system at all. You can't have a belief system without the grounding of some sort of reality.

Is your disbelief in Santa part of your belief system? What about unicorns? What about flying spaghetti monsters? Where do you draw the line. Does every single possibility, no matter how obscure and ridiculous need to be included as part of our "belief system"?

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4482 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:42:01 AM
5Cats:
"One of the Laws (capital L!) of the universe says it WILL end"
------------
No. The current state of the Universe will end. Nothing more. If our universe collapses and the matter is released into another dimension, it is still the existence of that same matter/energy. The Higgs/Boson field that provides mass to matter allows us to exist in the Universe as it currently is. However, Humans are not a required part of the formula. The Universe can continue to exist without us.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24195 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:24:01 AM
"My belief that God does not exist is NOT a form of believing in the existence of God."

That's what I keep hearing...

Morality is both "moot" and "relative".

One of the Laws (capital L!) of the universe says it WILL end. So unless a "new Law" comes along to correct that one? Which is ENTIRELY possible btw, the end is certain.

Oh sure, it would take a LONG time! LOLZ! But again, that's "moot"...

Langer
Male, 18-29, Europe
 384 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:12:29 AM
"Columbus knew the world was round. Pythagoras figured that out a couple thousand years earlier. "

Actually, Columbus himself thought the world was pear shaped...go figure

" I hate humans that think they know everything, they don't even know they're ingnorant."

I hate when people try to generalise their own species as if they are not human themselves...everybody poops!

"Why live through all the pain and suffering and heartbreak if there's no purpose to any of this? Why procreate when we leave only more of the same suffering to our children?"

Well for one thing, we've evolved to a stage where when we do something that sustains our current existence or extends the continuation of the species, we're rewards with all these great drugs being pumped around our bodies (i.e. love, happiness, relief, adrenaline, etc.)

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24195 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:11:23 AM
Atheism is not a religion, no matter how frequently theists try to insist that it is.

@artmunki: Golf is not a sport, no matter how many times non-golfers say it is.

You're locked in (it seems to me) on the word "religion" as meaning a brick building, preachers, worship & etc. Not at all! One's "religion" is entirely internal. The EXPRESSION of religion is what others can see. Philosophers said this. Jesus said it too!

THUS: Atheism is an expression of one's religious beliefs.
A Religion: Something you DO (like a sport)
Religious Beliefs: Something you THINK (rightly or wrongly)

However the two are 100% connected. If I play golf with a baseball bat (because that's my belief) is it still "golf"?
IT DOESN'T MATTER!
It IS still a "sport"... hope that's clearer.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24195 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:02:37 AM
@patchouli: What is "religion"? A SET or SYSTEM of "beliefs" correct?
Beliefs include things both proven AND unproven. I do not need to "prove my belief" to make it "real". I believe! THAT is real! True? False? idk, but I still believe! OR NOT (it's the same thing).

"I believe God exists" = religion IE: it's a belief
"I believe God does NOT exist" = religion IE: it's a belief

Neither has "absolute proof" and both are, by definition: ARTICLES OF FAITH

You seem to be confusing "religion" with a building. Just because there's no "Cathedral of Atheism" doesn't mean Atheism isn't a FORM of religious belief...

@artmunki: No, commentary is one way of WATCHING sports. You confuse the observation with the actual activity, I think...
Reading a book about "beliefs" is not the same as HAVING a belief...

Link_Hiei
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 5188 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:54:22 AM
@patchouly

Do you watch the series The Universe , Known Universe, or?

I fracken love those.

YugureKage
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 1211 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:40:04 AM
Absurdism. I am all about the Absurdism.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4482 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:22:01 AM
...,continued

This is the same matter that has always existed. The shape it takes is irrelevant. When this Universe finally comes to an end. It's matter will continue on. Whether it be in this dimension or another one. Our Universe's rules are dictated by the forces in it. Those forces are specific to our dimension. Who's to say how matter will act or behave in another dimension. But no matter what, it will still continue to exist in one form or another.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4482 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:20:05 AM
StickmanJ:
"Patch - If your "infinite universe" theory holds water, explain why everything we know to exist in this universe has a beginning and end. Every planet, star, solar system, galaxy, black hole comet... all have a beginning and end. PROVEN. Raed more... it helps."
------

Okay...not sure if you are really slow or a just a troll.

It is not "PROVEN" at all. We are discussing the Universe around us and the matter contained within it. This variation of the Universe was born from the Big Bang. Most likely a rupturing of a higher dimension, releasing the matter and, what we know of as the Universe, into this dimension.

The planets and stars are made of that matter. When a planet explodes, it's matter does not cease to exist. It simply rejoins the matter that makes up our Universe and eventually, gravity will cause it to become something else. Most likely another planet or moon.
...

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4825 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:17:58 AM
StickmanJ

"everything we know to exist in this universe has a beginning and end."

OK. Then where did god come from? What was his beginning? Who created him?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4825 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:17:02 AM
StickmanJ

"Holy, I CAN prove the non-existence of your invisible tiger."

No you can't. I promise you can't. Go for it.

"Did your ancestors sit on the dock waving goodbye to Columbus as he sailed to fall off the edge of the world."

No my ancestors knew the world was round. Most people knew the world was round. Columbus knew the world was round. Pythagoras figured that out a couple thousand years earlier.

" I hate humans that think they know everything, they don't even know they're ingnorant."

You mean like how you're ignorant about people believing the earth was flat in the time of comlumbus?





HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4825 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:12:34 AM
papajohns1

"Why live through all the pain and suffering and heartbreak if there's no purpose to any of this? Why procreate when we leave only more of the same suffering to our children?"

I love life. Almost every minute of it. If yours is nothing but misery and heartbreak you have my pity. I hope you are able to fix that at some point.

To answer your question, the purpose of life for me is to enjoy life as much as possible and to help the people I care about enjoy it as well. Very simple.

Bakcagain21
Male, 18-29, Europe
 553 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:12:33 AM
For the most part, the religious types sincerely believe their way is good, better.

@Gerry Totally agree. Yes when someone offers to pray for me it's patronising, sure it can be rude to us. But just think of it this way. In accordance with their beliefs they care enough about you to try and save you. They're trying to be nice.

Bakcagain21
Male, 18-29, Europe
 553 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:08:53 AM
Atheism, in a lot of cases, IS a religion.


Hate it when theists say this. I don't have a set of mutually supportive beliefs. I don't have some moral or speaking point guide to tell me how to act. Want to say we're treating Dawkins militant atheism as a belief as I've had chucked at me well that would be Dawkins Atheism and not Athiesm.

And absence of religion does not mean absence of morality. I don't believe in stuff I think about it. Advantage of that I can be shown why I'm wrong you can change ideas you can't change beliefs because you either do or you don't.

As for criticism of religious leaders etc. He's not your Pope etc. Of course he isn't going to endorse abortions, homosexuality etc but he's not your leader.

And for public use, want to ban religion. Ban any other belief or cause. No gay pride parades, no feminist parades etc. I get as much harm from a gay pride parade or march as I do from a nativity scene being on public prop

artmunki
Male, 30-39, Europe
 174 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:07:57 AM
And one other thing regarding morality. What is more moral - to do the right thing because you know it's the right thing to do, or to do the right thing because your community expects you to do it, because you're afraid of being punished if you don't, because you hope to be rewarded for doing it, or because you can get a tax-break by doing so? Religious people certainly can be genuinely moral, and can (and do) do good things, but any of the normal religious motivations for good deeds actually cheapen the morality of those deeds.

StickmanJ
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 18 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 9:06:26 AM
Patch - If your "infinite universe" theory holds water, explain why everything we know to exist in this universe has a beginning and end. Every planet, star, solar system, galaxy, black hole comet... all have a beginning and end. PROVEN. Raed more... it helps.

TruTenrMan
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 2565 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:58:52 AM
Well, I have to get back to work, folks.

Gotta make a living. Later.

artmunki
Male, 30-39, Europe
 174 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:58:35 AM
TruTenr - Oh wait, I missed that bit - you say you want to be a moral person "like Christ"? You mean you think it's moral to punish one person for the misdeeds of another? Or that it's moral to torture someone eternally for a finite misdeed? See, that's the damage religion does to your morality. If you want to be a decent, moral person, you should strive to be more moral than either Christ or your god, because both characters demonstrate very susbstantial moral failings.

Kegomatix
Male, 18-29, Western US
 1293 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:57:31 AM
I am glad I do not need a set of moral codes derived from religion to tell me I need to be a good person.

TruTenrMan
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 2565 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:56:50 AM
ou'll find that, sans the whole living for ever in Heaven thing, most Atheists feel the same way and want the same thing.

Great! Glad to hear it! Now, you having said that, it doesn't make me bash you on why you choose to be moral. Why bash my for why I am moral?

Here's an interesting thing. As a child, the idea of "Living for the rest of eternity in Heaven" was terrifying. Tomorrow, the day after that, the week after that, the year after that, the decade after that... The idea of living forever, to anyone who can grasp the concept of what that means, is terrifying. It brings me great peace to know that there is an end for me. That I won't have to suffer the horrors that "eternal life" offer.

Hey, to each his/her own. Personally, living eternally with my wife, children, family... never getting sick... never suffering... seems like a good deal to me.

StickmanJ
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 18 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:55:55 AM
Holy, I CAN prove the non-existence of your invisible tiger. And I never said God did exist, only your preconceived notions implied that's what I meant. Did your ancestors sit on the dock waving goodbye to Columbus as he sailed to fall off the edge of the world. I hate humans that think they know everything, they don't even know they're ingnorant.

patchouly
Male, 40-49, Canada
 4482 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:55:05 AM
@TruTenrMan,
It's not sad at all. In fact, it's quite a relief. To know that you can be good to others, because you want to be. To enjoy life, because it's there.

As I've mentioned in other threads, I work (or used to) with the poor. I used to be an administrator of a food program. I helped people because I wanted to. Not because of God.

As for the "meaning"? I get meaning by spending time with my wife and child. Hanging out with friends. Making music. That is as fulfilling and satisfying as any of the "God will burn you in Hell if you screw up" crap that I was raised with. As for the afterlife, you can read my previous post.

artmunki
Male, 30-39, Europe
 174 Posts
Wednesday, April 24, 2013 8:53:33 AM
TruTenr - sorry, I didn't intend that as a personal attack at all. I was just pointing out the incongruity of thinking that your life has any meaning if your consciousness is going to continue existing for eternity, and I threw your kids in because, as I said, they give your life more meaning than any religion can.

But to address your other point - yes, being a decent, moral person always has value, no matter how you derive your morality. But I would argue that you have developed your morality *despite* your religion, not because of it. That's how you know that genocide and slavery are wrong - conclusions which you cannot derive from your religion without disregarding passages which specifically condone these practises ... and you only know to disregard them because you're *already* a moral person.

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