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Wake UP America....

Hits: 5849 | Rating: (3.2) | Category: Community & Lifestyle | Added by: ElectricEye
Page: 13 4 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
 1804 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 10:56:19 PM
"It takes a rich bastard to build a tractor factory."

But how about a wealthy class that is only rich enough to live very, very comfortably but not rich enough to sock away millions and millions (in some cases billions) of extra money they will never finish spending and won't do charitable acts with?

I don't know why non-wealthy people feel the need to defend wealthy people. You know you'll never become one so why defend the case for obscene wealth obtained at the expense of other people's basic existence?

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 11707 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 9:39:59 PM
What a bunch of socialist claptrap. If it weren't for the wealthy, we'd all still be subsistence farmers working our own little patch of dirt with a mule and a hand-forged plow.

It takes a rich bastard to build a tractor factory.

lt633c
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 141 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 9:27:48 PM
And CEO's aren't the only problem. NO ONE's time is worth 25, 50 or 115 MILLION dollars a year. NO ONE's abilities are THAT good that they deserve rediculous compensation. Actors? No. Athletes? No. Musicians ? No. Sorry, nobody is worth that kind of money. I don't care what they do.

lt633c
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 141 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 9:22:00 PM
Over the last 30 years, wages of the middle class have not kept pace with wages and perks of the top 20%. (CEO's etc) During the same time, an unholy alliance has developed between the federal government and big business, banks and wall street. Nothing but dirty business going on therer. And the part that makes me feel better is this. None of them are any better than any of us. Matter of fact, when people like them can't handle their lives, or a situation, they call people like us. I don't have a "fix" for the way it is, but I do know that it isn't right.

Xprez
Male, 30-39, Western US
 634 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:41:35 PM
I've seen this before. It's time for a revolution. The saddest thing anyone can do, is dismiss this information. Do we really think of ourselves as being that insignificant? You're talking about people most of whom don't work hard for their exorbitant amount of money.

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3156 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 7:31:18 PM
"Which was then lowered in the 60s and 70s."

Still higher than today, and it's essentially been falling ever since.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10112 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 6:55:16 PM
The top tax rate was much higher in the 50s, as was the corporate tax rate.


Which was then lowered in the 60s and 70s.

honkeylips
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 1568 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 6:51:05 PM
Meh, I say good for that 1%. I invest and I already have a pretty nice nest egg set aside for when I retire. I know I'll never make it to that 1% but I do know that in 30 years I'll have enough set aside that I'll be able to retire and live comfortably.

DromEd
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 1391 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 6:45:35 PM
Complain about CEO pay all you want but if you took 90% of their salaries away and gave it to the poor it would only be a half of a drop in the bucket.

Taking from the haves and giving it to the have nots isn't the answer. How many trillions have been given to the poor? Guess what, the problem remains.

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3156 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 6:44:23 PM
"Fair enough but this wasn't achieved through aggressive confiscation and redistribution. In fact most of FDR's New Deal programs were terminated by the Truman admin."

Perhaps we have different definitions of "aggressive confiscation and redistribution." The top tax rate was much higher in the 50s, as was the corporate tax rate. That, to me, is a much more aggressive confiscation of income.

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 6:11:00 PM
This is what happens when you elect millionaires to the House and Senate - they change the rules and regulations so them and their friends get more of the pie.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 3625 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 6:07:04 PM
QueenZira-"Productivity has surged but income and wages have stagnated for most Americans."

That's a quaint, but missleading, statement.

Yes, productivity has surged, mainly due to technology, but only in certain areas. But, a burger-flipper today is not more productive than a burger-flipper of 50 years ago.

There are many such jobs.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1522 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 5:50:08 PM
@QueenZira: I'm not being ideological in anyway, these concepts can be found in any economic textbook you can find even in ones in communist countries like China. You're correct that cost of living has gone up but that is in relation to inflation and the printing of money. I explained twice now why CEO's are making more money. And in to your comment

"What did CEOs start doing in the '70s that justifies all the extra pay they get and all the suffering they cause for everyone else?"

A persons pay is not based on what is fair but on the demand for a job and the supply of people who have the ability to fill it. The reason they have become richer is because their companies are picking up the slack for the companies who have gone out of business. And the rich are not causing any suffering by being rich, the government is causing suffering by creating conditions that only large companies can adapt to.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10112 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 5:00:58 PM
Zira while I can't agree with you on wages I certainly do think we need to wipe the tax code clean save for charitable donations and the progressive tax system (which I still disagree with but I'll digress). As it stands it distorts economy, and encourages malinvestment. Government shouldn't encourage people to buy some goods and services over others.

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2137 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 4:34:33 PM
Look, you two are so ideological it's impossible to dialogue with you. The cost of living has gone up, average wages for everyone but the top 1% have stagnated so no one can buy anything they need and a CEO gets more income than a average wage earner, over 30X times more. What did CEOs start doing in the '70s that justifies all the extra pay they get and all the suffering they cause for everyone else?

While you're at it, why don't you look at what the New Deal actually entailed and please please please for the love of Goddess learn what the hell Communism actually is.

The facts are there gentlemen, and I don't have to cook up contrived excuses to explain them.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10112 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 4:27:22 PM
Your chart doesn't say that wages have stagnated. If anything the productivity gains means that people can buy more and better goods and services than ever before. Not growing as fast as expected does not mean stagnated. Your chart also displays the time frame in which I mentioned economic mobility.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1522 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 4:26:17 PM
@QueenZira: I explained why the rich are getting richer in my 3rd post.
In the 1970s family-owned businesses comprised between 45 and 50 percent of the countries retailers. Today their share has fallen to below 20 percent. As operating costs have risen, independent businesses have gone out of business and bigger and more durable companies have filled the void.

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2137 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 4:07:20 PM
This whole shebang about covers it. Particularly note where it says, "Productivity has surged but income and wages have stagnated for most Americans. If the median household income had kept pace with the economy since 1970, it would now be nearly $92,000 not $ 50,000".

Oh and lest I forget, something dedicated to all you passionate Red hunters out there, classic folk Americana, from middle America with love.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1522 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 4:01:12 PM
And by increasing taxes on anyone past 35% of total income on the rich, middle, or poorer classes, the total revenues from the tax begin to decrease, its known as the "region of declining revenue." It's occurs because of more incentive traps, demotivation, corruption, and increasing inefficiencies as income taxes increase.

You would only be cutting your nose to spite your face. It would hurt you more than it helped.


Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10112 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 4:00:55 PM
Income distribution in America was much closer to being equal during the years the USA was most concerned with fighting communism.


Fair enough but this wasn't achieved through aggressive confiscation and redistribution. In fact most of FDR's New Deal programs were terminated by the Truman admin.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1522 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:59:32 PM
The reason the rich become richer during times of economic stress is due to many businesses going out of business and the slack is taken up by bigger more durable companies. When local produce shops close their doors, companies like Walmart takes up the slack. On a global scale this can be exponential. Combine this with market instability and the wealthier companies and people prefer to have more liquid funds and less investitures increasing personal wealth but limiting personal investment. Things like taxes, price of goods, filing government forms, hiring lawyers and accountants, the AHA, and raising minimum wage, all increase operating costs, not just on the rich but everyone. Smaller mom and pop shops often are the first fall when operating cost increase. As they do larger corporations make a profit due to their ability to fill the void left by the smaller companies closing. Thereby, further enriching the top companies like Walmart, and the top 1% who run them.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1522 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:59:15 PM
We should not take from other merely because merely because they have more than us, we all on this site have way more than others in the world. The only way we could redistribute this much money is through taxation and government redistribution. That is not even socialism that is full blown communism. When a tax is applied, economist are taught to think of it as a penalty. It reduces the quantity of goods and increases the price, and again forces a dead weight loss.
As I have said before economics, taxation and revenues are a clinically defined mathematical sums based on thousands of years of market study, not a generalized feelings of quality like "fairness" or "what should be". I understand the argument but it isn't reasonable, it would hurt more people than it helped.

If you don't believe me ask yourself why the rich are getting richer and wealth is becoming skewed.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1522 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:58:53 PM
This I disagree with this video and it's notions of fairness. This graph only shows the wealth income distribution in America, and people look at it and say how can those top 20% and top 1% make so much more than the middle and poorer classes. YET IF YOU MAKE MINIMUM WAGE YOU ARE ALREADY PART OF THE TOP %12 ON EARTH!!! Even if you are poor here you have it better than most people on earth. If you want to see what real poverty looks like look at places like Zimbabwe when the average monthly wage is $0.30, that's a cent a day, that's what real poverty looks like. How fast do you make 30 cents at your job?

People who are poor in this country are poor relative to other people in the US not the world. Even if you have no job, and $0 income, you can still get welfare, state assistance, subsidized housing, food stamps, soup kitchens, independence cards, public library's with free internet, and numerous other social-services.

Shelworth
Male, 50-59, Western US
 298 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:58:24 PM
oh yeah I forgot; PINKO!

Shelworth
Male, 50-59, Western US
 298 Posts
Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:57:31 PM
Sorry won't work, you could redistribute all the wealth equally and in a year for the most part the poor would be poor again, and the rich would be rich again.

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