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$22 Minimum Wage: Could It Pass Congress?

Hits: 4437 | Rating: (3.0) | Category: Misc. | Added by: 12chars
Page: 13 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
SPrinkZ
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2258 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:10:40 PM
"A burger flipper's contribution to the business while vital, can be done by anyone, thus the PERSON in that position is not vital. "

Absolutely illogical.

The burger place needs burger flippers.
Thus burger flippers are vital.
Burger flippers are people.
People are not vital for the position.

That makes no sense. They need people to do it, but we tell people all the time to take these sh|t jobs and eat these sh|t wages and then pray you win lottery or something because you'll get NOWHERE IN LIFE doing that sh|t.

Minimum wage is supposed to be the minimum liveable wage that can be offered. People should be able to at least own a room and pay some bills on it. That's not too much to ask. Damn. We are living in an era that need cars/phones, etc. to succeed.

SPrinkZ
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2258 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:06:31 PM
HolyGod sounds like the real God they were talking about.

Poor people are not LAZY PEOPLE. Most poor people just have bad circumstances, or don't have a shot at life and then we laugh at them? Sickening.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5056 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 9:24:51 PM
Dan157300

"Let the market decide what a position will pay"

Sure. Let's just let corporations decide how much they want to pay people. Then everyone can make 35 cents an hour. I think it would be great if America was just like China or the Philippines.

Dan157300
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 4 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 9:11:59 PM
I never understood the arbitrary value the government defines as a "minimum wage." Its currently $7.25 an hour and their goal is to increase it to $10.10 an hour over several years. Why not simply make it $10.10 an hour? Or maybe $100.10 an hour. Or better yet $200.10 an hour. Or better yet $300.10 an hour. Or better yet $400.10 an hour. Or better yet $500.10 an hour. With a little sarcasm, can you see how ridiculously silly this minimum wage argument gets when we start putting a higher arbitrary value on it. Why does the government find it their obligation to force this upon us? Let the market decide what a position will pay and let the individual decide what he is worth.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4744 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:06:45 PM
HolyGod-"So nobody at your company can do what you do?"

No, not to the extent that I know the system and the requirements. I'm in the process of training a back-up, I estimate in 18 months she'll be able to do half my of what I do.

HolyGod-"So if you die then the company goes out of business?"

No, but they have a problem maintaining the system. We recently added another location to our system for the simple reason they recieved close to $900,000 in fines for inproper labeling and classification of their material doing it the way they were. My system takes care of that.

HolyGod-"I'm an illustrator and graphic artist"

We have that in common. Some illustration, quite a lot of graphic design (it was that experience, along with my chemist background, that landed me my current job).

Never underestimate the importance of a good logo.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4744 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:00:07 PM
HolyGod-"how innovative was it?"

I took a document based systems (document = obsolete information in 24 hours) to a dynamic template based system that allows up to generate real-time accuracy in our labels. So when a material changes, all labels for that product update automatically rather than manually updating dozens (if not hundreds) of individual documents.

HolyGod-"Maintenance is usually something anyone can do with training"

Maintenence in this case does not mean tightening nuts and bolts, but keeping up with changes in material, labeling requirements and all appropriate regulations. Yes, I could train someone to maintain it...all they need to know is the system I developed and the theory, along with spending years learning the appropriate regulations, getting the proper training and certification.

Nuthin to it.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5056 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 7:52:53 PM
MeGrendel

There are lots of people that perform tasks that most anyone can do. There are burger flippers, garbage men, janitors, etc and they are necessary to our society. 30% of people probably fit into this category. They provide an important function. Is that not worthy of a wage that people can survive on?

I feel like you are advocating for a slave class.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5056 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 7:44:43 PM
MeGrendel

"A burger flipper's contribution to the business while vital, can be done by anyone, thus the PERSON in that position is not vital."

Exactly what I was getting at.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5056 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 7:44:07 PM
MeGrendel

"You?"

I'm an illustrator and graphic artist. Nobody in the world does exactly what I do. There are other illustrators and designers, but each one is going to be different. Differentiating myself allows me to charge $70, $90, $150/hr.

I get what you are saying about value. I make way more money to do the logo for the burger stand than the guy making the burger, but I still maintain his position is more important to the company. You don't NEED a logo to have a burger stand but you do NEED someone flipping burgers. The difference is how many people can fill his position versus could fill mine. A couple billion people can flip a burger after 10 minutes of training not a single other person on the planet would have created my logo exactly the same.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5056 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 7:33:16 PM
MeGrendel

"Designed, developed and maintain a system for labeling hazardous chemical products"

I can't really gauge much based on that. Design takes creativity, how innovative was it? Is it similar to any other system?

Development takes slightly specialization. Could someone else have taken your design and developed it? Probably.

Maintain? Maintenance is usually something anyone can do with training.

So nobody at your company can do what you do? So if you die then the company goes out of business? Come on. They hire someone who is up and running and doing what you do in a week or two. Will they do it the exact same? Maybe not.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4744 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 7:09:10 PM
HolyGod-" But it is the most vital position."

The 'job' may be vital, but if anyone walking off the street can accomplish it the 'position' is not.

A burger flipper's contribution to the business while vital, can be done by anyone, thus the PERSON in that position is not vital.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4744 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 7:05:56 PM
HolyGod-". What do you do that is so specialized and important you deserve more than minimum wage?"

In my current job? Designed, developed and maintain a system for labeling hazardous chemical products for nine manufacturing plants, five distribution centers and countless tollers in three countries meeting all local, state, federal and international regulations shipping to more countries than I can count in 27 different languages.

I am currently working on making this system global to all of our manufacturing plants world-wide, and also having to make sure our system keeps up to date as the UN's Globally Harmonized System of Classification and Labelling is instituted in various coutries (it's a pain, quite frankly).

Can anyone else at my company do the same thing? Not really. I have a back-up that can do ~20% of my job. That's about it.

You?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5056 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:58:29 PM
MeGrendel

"any trained monkey can flip a burger"

Absolutely. Never said the job required skill. But it is the most vital position.

If there is no manager, than it is probably a s.hitty burger stand. However if there is nobody making food there is no burger stand.

Does that mean the burger flipper should make more than the manager? No. The manager possesses a skill set and experience that fewer people have than the burger flipper. THAT is what sets his higher wage.

I was just disagreeing with your assertion that "It is determined by its contribution to the business."

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4744 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:41:19 PM
HolyGod-"then by your rationale the guy making the burgers should make a lot since his contribution is absolutely vital to the business"

Not even remotely true. As any trained monkey can flip a burger.

What's vital to a burger joint? Building the facility, purchasing the appliances and the food and the dishes and the pots and pans, paying for advertising, bringing in customers and insuring it all. THAT takes investment, risk, sacrifice and hard work.

Did the 15 year old flipping the burger do that? Nope. Flipping the burger is worth less than minimum wage. Any trained animal could do it.

That's why most peoplel realize in the first week they need to learn something more marketable to make more than minimum wage.

jendrian
Male, 18-29, Canada
 2492 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:35:29 PM
EgalM, Tim Horton's raises their prices often without the employees getting any pay raise

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:29:34 PM
I'm going to pass. No one suggested that the minimum wage get raised to $22. That could be the biggest troll title of the year.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5056 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 4:27:46 PM
MeGrendel

"Fishing french fries out of hot grease is not productive enough to warrent a livable wage."

That can be said about almost anything. What do you do that is so specialized and important you deserve more than minimum wage?

Most jobs are just a repetition of basic processes that almost anyone can do. So let's just pay everyone $7 an hour. Right?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5056 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 4:23:35 PM
MeGrendel

"A job is not determined by a 'livable wage'. It is determined by its contribution to the business."

Not even remotely true.

If you run a burger stand then by your rationale the guy making the burgers should make a lot since his contribution is absolutely vital to the business.

Wages are more determined by the available pool of workers with the skill-set to do the job. It has little to nothing to do with how important that job is.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4744 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 3:30:34 PM
Gerry1of1-"try living on minimum wage without starving"

The problem with this argument is that the minimum wage has nothing to do with living wages. It was not designed as a living wage. It was not designed to keep you from starving.

If you're older than 17 and still working for minimum wage, you probably do not have the skills to actually earn a living wage.

Like richanddead said, if you can survive working one job making minimum wage, work two jobs (or more) making minimum wage.

Currently, between me and my wife, we are working 5 jobs and starting a business at the same time.

Life is hard. Get used to it.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2067 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 3:18:54 PM
@Gerry1of1: Sorry, didn't see how gigantic the graph was, I deleted it, it was just the best illustrated so I picked it. Also I used to work on minimum wage and I didn't starve, I just had to work 2 jobs. I even bought a used car with it, still have it, a 99 Buick. I have 2 new higher paying jobs now but I still work 7 days a week, and do some lawn work for the neighbors, for extra spending cash, just as I did back then. Its could be really pooty I admit, but if you budget your cash, you can live on it, I assure you.

Secondly, if you make minimum wage your already part of the top 12% on earth.
Raising the minimum wage doesn't help, yes it forces higher wages, but the amount of jobs that offer them decreases and it causes "dead weight loss." This is why you couldn't raise minimum wage to a million and everyone be rich.



spanerbulb
Male, 30-39, Europe
 1247 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 2:47:07 PM
Good idea but it would never get passed as it would mean a big shift in the balance of power and the current powers that be wouldn't have any of that.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33911 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 1:44:58 PM

@ mandingo3519 - try living on minimum wage without starving and then say it should not go up. I don't mean $22... no way. But it is time to increase it. And prices have gone up anyway, that's why it needs increasing. It's a balancing act.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33911 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 1:43:06 PM

MODS: Please delete that giant ass graph.

Thank you.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 1:40:05 PM
@MeGrendel

Fishing french fries out of hot grease is not productive enough to warrent a livable wage.

Either you didn't read my entire post or you didn't understand it.

First, I was making the point that she never stated that she wanted the minimum wage to be raised to $22/hr. Rather, she only implied that it should be raised.

Second, I provided information that demonstrated how deceiving a productivity vs. wage comparison is by showing the CPI and Purchasing Power in the US. In simpler terms, I suggested that the disparity between productivity and wages is reflected in lower costs.

As such, a more accurate and honest comparison would be between profit/employee and wage/employee over time. I would expect anyone who has ever read any of my posts to realize that I am not in favor of adjusting, or even maintaining, a minimum wage.

fancythat
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1963 Posts
Tuesday, March 19, 2013 12:45:31 PM
Exactly where did she propose that the minimum wage *should* be $22/hr? I must have missed that part of the video...

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