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Same Sex Marriage Opponent, OH Senator Flip-Flops

Hits: 4270 | Rating: (2.6) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: SmagBoy1
Page: 1 2 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24890 Posts
Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:24:31 AM
Exactly @Bakcagain21: "liberals" want you to agree with them, but if you do? They STILL chew your butt! What?

The only "caveat" I'd put on this is:

He should now be JUST as pro-gay as he was anti-gay before!

Just being silent is a good start, but he should really "atone" for his mistake with the same effort he made making it...

Bakcagain21
Male, 18-29, Europe
 553 Posts
Saturday, March 16, 2013 1:03:42 AM
@SmagBoy1 Be the bigger man, I was surprised the submitter of this link was a pro gay marriage guy. When someone is wrong and change their opinions for whatever reason you shouldn't attack them for it, should be enough they are doing the right thing now.

If he went round telling people he always was in favour or rubbed it in their face then yes chastise them for it. But he has changed his opinion, he'd never really thought about it and followed the party line until his son brought it up and made him deal with it. That doesn't make him a flip-flopper a flip-flopper is someone who changes their vote at any opportunity to get a couple extra votes and name in the press.

And if people on the pro side attack him this much why would anyone else even consider changing their opinion.

Practice what you preach be nice and not hateful...

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 10:30:13 PM
"That's an impressive link, but it agrees that Obama didn't "support gay marriage" until May 2012... which is what I said..."

Not even going to waste my time 5Cats. You can see what you said below.

ledzeppeloyd
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2304 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 10:02:46 PM
its the new world

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24890 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 8:02:48 PM
...that the difference between Liberal & Conservative is not black and white.

@markust: I was going to add liberal & conservative, but was hitting the char limit... I guess I should have.

That's an impressive link, but it agrees that Obama didn't "support gay marriage" until May 2012... which is what I said...

My point (with Obama) is that ALL politicians can "change their minds" on literally ANY subject... often within hours of previous changes...

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 5:47:07 PM
Better late than never I suppose.

Now the real test will be whether or not he supports his son in an official capacity and not just roll over for the party. As long as he doesn't pull a Cheney, in other words, he'll be fine.

Although Smagboy has a point that Cons *do* seem to show selective empathy, only caring when something hits them directly. As someone on Twitter said earlier today, "Too bad no Rep. kid will ever come out as poor."

SmagBoy1
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4222 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 4:12:41 PM
And this man failed in his. So, that's what torqued me off. But, as I've learned here today, I need to let that go, or at least let the *man* have his realizations today, because, well, that's the right thing to do. It doesn't mean that what he did was any different than writing laws to prevent equal rights for Native Americans, for example, or black people, or Muslims, etc. His veiws *were* just as bigoted. I'm glad he's found his inner moderate.

SmagBoy1
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4222 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 4:10:07 PM
"Now, my question is this SmagBoy1, do you consider my grandmother to be hypocritical, a flip-flopper, or still a bad person or do you see as I do and as I do this Politician...?"

peakingo, I don't see your grandmother as a bad person, nor do I see this *man* as a bad person. However, there's a caveat there. This *politican* voted, campaigned, raised money for, attended rallies about and publicly supported the codification of bigotry into state and federal laws. I hold politicians to a far higher standard than I hold your grandmother. Your grandmother is allowed to learn from her experiences. No one was hurt. I expect politicans to be far better, wiser, more tolerant of *all* of their constituents. For example, I'd never vote to limit the free practice of any religion, even though I have absolutely no use for it, and often find it offensive. In fact, I'd fight for the right of free practice of religion. Politicians have a responsibility, IMHO.

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 2:11:33 PM
"Gets elected? Does nothings to further gay rights OR gay marriage."

As a gay man who keeps up with the gay news I can unequivocally say you are full of sh*t. President Obama did a hell of a lot for the gay community and to advance gay right before he came out for Marriage Equality. Link

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 2:06:46 PM
"@markust aren't you all-the-time lecturing me that the difference between D & R is an illusion?"

No spinny spinmister. I am "all-the-time lecturing" you that the difference between Liberal & Conservative is not black and white. People are liberal in some areas and conservative in others. People are not as black and white as opinion media has brainwashed people like you to be.

peakingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 687 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 1:19:29 PM
Another way to view this is as someone who grew up in the south in "good old days" and like nearly everyone else a racist.

As a southerner by birth, I can attest personally that my grandmother was a racist, but it was birthed out of word of mouth as opposed to personal experiences and that deep down she was a good person, albeit ignorant.

Then the inevitable happened (sarcastic) a black family moved next door and man was she mad and terrified, but soon she found them to be fantastic neighbors with great morals and kids and eventually became her best friends.

Now, my question is this SmagBoy1, do you consider my grandmother to be hypocritical, a flip-flopper, or still a bad person or do you see as I do and as I do this Politician, a person who's ignorance was born out of hearsay and rhetoric and now that he's had personal contact with a gay person, like my grandmother with black people, that it can change your perception of them for the better?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24890 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 12:47:59 PM
Obama:
Pre-political career? Opposed to gay rights & gay marriage. (See: Rev Jeremiah Wright)
Running for Senate? Supports gay rights (idk about gay marriage)
Is Senator: Opposes gay rights and marriage, votes against it.
Runs for PotUS? Supports gay rights and gay marriage
Gets elected? Does nothings to further gay rights OR gay marriage.
Numbers start slipping in the polls? Repeals DADT, says he will support gay marriage... sometime in the future.

Republicans aren't the only ones who "oppose gay marriage" eh? Lots of Democrats oppose it to. And lots of Republicans SUPPORT it!

@markust aren't you all-the-time lecturing me that the difference between D & R is an illusion?

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 12:26:53 PM
"So you guys say that this guy should be celebrated? The his changing his mind should be held up as an example of good?"

This Senator was on the short list of two people to be the Vice Presidential candidate for 2012. What he has done here took an incredible amount of courage. I am very proud of him for bucking his party. Doesn't mean I am ready to forgive him for his past though, but making him out to be a villain is not going to make other people want to publicly come out in favor of marriage equality.

HalfPintRoo
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 2475 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 12:18:16 PM
Sometimes having someone close to you that does something different then you have thought or believed will change that belief.

Trust me.

SmagBoy1
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4222 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 12:16:11 PM
So you guys say that this guy should be celebrated? The his changing his mind should be held up as an example of good? Man, that just rubs me the wrong way. I'll shut up about it now because I don't want to do harm, but, seriously, it just seems to me that the time to be quiet and accepting was over a long time ago. And that at some point you have to say, "No more!" But, if I'm wrong, I'll accept that.

peakingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 687 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 11:52:46 AM
*** Your point makes it harder for others to do the same.

Let it be.

peakingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 687 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 11:51:29 AM
One of the hardest things to do, regardless of the reason, is to make a change for the better. Politicians have it the hardest as legislators and I commend anyone who can go against their parties stances on controversial topics.

So unlike SmagBoy1 whose point is childish and counter productive I feel no need to chastise him for making this change. Language usage like this SmagBoy "Flip-Flops" is a product of "you're dammed if do and you're dammed if you don't".

Grow up and realize that by criticizing someone for making a monumental leap in the opposition of beliefs that got him elected takes a ton courage.

I get it he was an ignorant jerk and it took a shot of reality to make him change his way-so what. Get over yourself and you almighty stance of now his son is gay and now he cares.

He probably never met an openly gay man before this and now see's they're humans with dreams of love and equality. Your point makes it harde

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 11:12:22 AM
"Someday, if you open your mind up you'll see nothing is further from the truth."

The people who used the same passages in the bible to try and stop interracial marriage are looked at as bigots now. Same thing will happen to the people using the bible to stop gay marriage. Marriage equality is a done deal. Love and Tolerance has won. I did not say acceptance just tolerance. Churches will still be able to believe what they want and they will not be forced to marry gays. This is a Civil issue not a religious issue. One religion can not push their views on a society that does not have a set religion. We're not Egypt. That is exactly why the Prop 8 case is going to be thrown out by the supreme court.

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3398 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 11:08:00 AM
@papajon0s1

Two points. Firstly, the term bigot means:

"a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance"

You may not hate gay people, but your stance is depriving them of a right the rest of us take for granted.

Secondly, many wrongs have been justified by religious teachings. For example, slavery and interracial marriage. So if you believe gay people shouldn't be able to marry, perhaps you should look beyond the morality taught by your faith and ask if that would conflict with your personal sense of morality were you not a Catholic.

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 11:02:47 AM
"We simply believe marriage should be between a man and a woman. That's it. Yet somehow that makes us gigantic bigots. Someday, if you open your mind up you'll see nothing is further from the truth."

Again I have no problem with personal beliefs. I have a few that I am sure are questionary but I don't go on the radio or TV to express them, that is when personal beliefs become bigotry. Us older gays have thicker skin but when a teen hears those words the amount of pain they feel can be detrimental. Some gay teens have no safe place. They are attacked in school, in church and most horribly at home. That is why the gay teen suicide rate is so much higher than straight teens. They are not weaker they just sometimes have no support structure, and the threat of burning in hell has been removed, because being gay they are told they are already going to burn in hell, so the stigma and threats against suicide are gone. Say good-bye to little Kevin.

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 10:55:16 AM
"no need for the vileness. Using that kind of language on political opponents is the reason we have what we have."

I have no problem with a person's personal belief but once they try to push that belief on the whole country by voting to add exclusion and hate onto all our citizens, with a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage, they are now a bigot.

papajon0s1
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 579 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 10:23:13 AM
You keep using that word "bigot"... I don't think it means what you think it means... Amazing. As a Catholic we are called to be as compassionate and caring for all including gays. We simply believe marriage should be between a man and a woman. That's it. Yet somehow that makes us gigantic bigots. Someday, if you open your mind up you'll see nothing is further from the truth.

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3398 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 9:27:44 AM
@Andrew155: I'm being facetious.

Andrew155
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2564 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 9:24:27 AM
FP, that's also bad. Maybe you won't say it would offend you, but what if somebody wished all of your own children were gay so that your line ended here, never to be passed on? Unnecessary rhetoric.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Friday, March 15, 2013 9:22:50 AM

1: Don't call if "flip flop" you have to change your mind at least 4 times to flip-flop. This is just "changing his mind based on new information". Labeling it flip-flopping is why politicians hate to change their minds.

2: What an ass hole. "Oh, I don't mind denying people their rights as long as it doesn't affect me". I be he votes to increase taxes on every tax bracket except his own.

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