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Here's Why You Can Stop Trying To Get Richer

Hits: 6074 | Rating: (2.7) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: CaptKangaroo
Page: 1 2 3 4 57 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1953 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:46:20 PM
@QueenZira: This is not an emotional issue where people are "too good." It's an economic issue, where if we did what you describe, we would decrease the amount of trade and business and ultimately revenue produced for the Government.

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:43:11 PM
Oh and Conservatives also have to learn the difference between what Socialism is and what Communism is, because they are not the same thing.

Simple reference tool, Sweden= Socialist, Soviet Russia= Communist. No one ever in the history of forever has ever said, "Oh dear GAWD the Swedes are coming to KILL US ALL!" That sentence is usually applied to Russia.

Know the difference. It could save your life.

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:38:36 PM
Money is not being taken "by force", there's no one with torches and pitchforks demanding money. Civil law stipulates you pay back in proportion to what you make, fair is fair.

The only time money is taken from the poor is when we coddle the rich and say "You're too good to do what we mandate for everybody else and pay your fair share, we'll balance the budget on the Middle class and poor's backs for you." Ignoring the fact that you can't get blood from a turnip.

Oh and granny's chemo isn't free, in fact health care costs are the main driver of American debt. If we went to a Single Payer system (Like Britain's NHS) we would eliminate a lot of our debt, but you can't convince Red 'Merica about that.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1953 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:35:45 PM
When a tax is applied, economist are taught to think of it as a penalty. It reduces the quantity of goods and increases the price, and again forces a dead weight loss.

randomxnp
Male, 30-39, Europe
 1257 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:32:20 PM
QueenZira

"Conservatives have to get over their misidentification of taxation with stealing."

No, socialists have to get over their misidentification of tax reduction as giving money away.

The money belongs to the people. It is handed over under threat of force and on sufferance to pay for the business of government. When government starts spending money on anything beyond the legitimate business of government then that is stealing.

Daegog
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 395 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:30:55 PM
How the rich have convinced conservatives to fight for them so strongly is mind blowing to me.

Its the dream that they will one day be uber rich and dont want to pay those higher taxes is the only thing i can come up with.

conservatives = delusional greedy bastards

randomxnp
Male, 30-39, Europe
 1257 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:29:04 PM
He is talking utter balls, for a simple reason. He ignores the fact that much of the "growth" he claims can pay for this is in government spending already. He is double counting, that is clearly not available for further government spending.

The inane thesis that the rich have made these vast gains and could pay for ridiculous government entitlements is shown to be false by simply pointing out that if you took all the money from the top 1% it would not even pay for government spending for 2 years, let alone start to pay down US$16.7 trillion in debt that is currently rising by a trillion a year, let alone make a serious hole in under-funded off-balance-sheet liabilities (of the type that had Enron execs condemned and even convicted, yet gets idiot statist politicians re-elected on both sides of the political "divide").

So you can see that a simple gross error check (that should be made for any calculation) proves him wrong.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1953 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:28:21 PM
Firstly, if you make minimum wage your already part of the top 12% on earth.
Raising the minimum wage doesn't help, yes it forces higher wages, but the amount of jobs that offer them decreases and it causes "dead weight loss." This is why you couldn't raise minimum wage to a million and everyone be rich.

Taxing the super wealthy for any dept may seem like a great idea, but they won't just give you their money. They will move their money off shore or just move away all together, like in France. Not to mention the obvious fact that this is a short term solution for a long term problem. There is also an old economic adage "people pay all taxes." Tax a corporation or CEO and it ultimately passed to the consumer.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10272 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:28:09 PM
Conservatives have to get over their misidentification of taxation with stealing.


In both cases it's money being taken by force. Eventually taxation can get to a point where it's simply stealing. It goes to public goods no one needs or wants (see Solyndra) or it just goes to line the government's pockets. In the case of the poor money is being stolen from them so Grandma can get her free chemo. Something which surprisingly neocons don't seem to complain that much about, or when they do they're absolutely incoherent about it.

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:27:06 PM
If wealth is what Communism redistributes than I guess all the wealth being redistributed to the top 1% over the past 30 yrs is Communism. See what I did there? Basic Political Science classes wouldn't go amiss for Red 'Merica that's for sure.

I don't buy the "loopholes" bit because it's completely topsy turvy to reality. One does not lose weight by eating more cake, it doesn't work that way. We have the lowest tax rates now since the Truman administration and we're not growing or generating more GDP, all we're doing is situating more wealth in the hands of the elite. And you don't run a society from the top down.


CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17130 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:20:59 PM
Reich is a Clinton era ideologue who's a socialist at heart. This "Tax The Rich", class warfare, more government scheme is sourced straight from Carl Marx.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25667 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:19:04 PM
@QueenZira: Taking 3% of your INCOME is a "tax" ok?
Talking 3% of ALL YOUR AFTER-TAX POSESSIONS is "stealing". Or "redistribution of wealth" as Obama said!
Get it? WEALTH is what "communism" redistributes, NOT INCOME.

We need lessons? pft!

The "top rate" in the 50's was 91%, but the ACTAUL RATE was much lower than it is today! THAT is why the USA was an "economic powerhouse" back then, LOWER (actual) TAXES!

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:12:54 PM
Conservatives have to get over their misidentification of taxation with stealing. Taxation is giving back your due to the society that allowed you to get as far as you have, taxes are the currency with which we buy civilization. And all governments do it, regardless of how liberal or conservative they are.

Also, judging by other comments herein, they have to learn what the phuck Communism actually is, first off...

Then they have to explain why 1950s America was such an economic powerhouse and there were no whiny rich Randian babies threatening to take their ball and go home because their egos were not sufficiently flattered.

There are probably other things they need to do which will become more apparent as this thread ages...


intrigid
Male, 18-29, Canada
 916 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:03:31 PM
"Once upon a time the tax on the wealthiest was much higher and everyone was better off for it."

No it wasn't. The top tax rate was 91% which NOBODY PAID because of deductions and tax loopholes. Since then, tax rates were slashed, but certain deductibilities were also eliminated, resulting in taxes on income being higher overall. In the era of 91% top marginal tax rates, actual taxes paid were LOWER than they are today.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25667 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:00:43 PM
@SmagBoy: You'd be OK with the US Goverment taking 3% of EVERYTHING YOU OWN, EVERY YEAR, FOREVER?
How long until HALF of your "wealth" is stolen from you?

You really imagine that rich folks will just "sit there and take it"? Or rather have it taken from them...

I'd think the issue is the dividing of groups and treating them differently.

@EgalM: This is something you support? Because it's exactly what R.Reich is saying: Certain Americans have NO RIGHT to own what they own, and the Government should take it away from them WITHOUT "due process". Period.

@QueenZira: The 50's had enough "loopholes" to drive a dump-truck FULL of money through, and that's exactly what "the rich" did. Ronald Reagan closed many loopholes, LOWERED ALL the taxes and 'voila'! IRS revenues went... UP!

bliznik
Male, 30-39, Western US
 493 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:56:43 PM
Hmm, I'm guessing that the top 1% don't watch youtube videos. But they DO talk to Senators and Representatives. While the bottom 99% watch youtube videos, but can't be bothered to EVER write a letter to a Senator or Representative.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25667 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:52:58 PM
2:35 Is there a single Democrat who understands the difference between "income" and "wealth"?
He says: TAX THE WEALTH? "tax the vast accumulations of wealth"?? That means take things people OWN! Just... take it away!
YOU want the government to decide who's "allowed to own" what? Look how well that worked for Lenin, Stalin, Mao & etc...

Ghod, this guy spins like a top!
Just STEAL 2% of what other people already own! It won't hurt you! They won't take their "capital" and flee the country (thus taking jobs and ruining the economy) heck no!

70 Billion? that's LESS than the sequester! It's not even 7% of the DEFICIT! Nevermind the 16 trillion dollar DEBT.

"No justification..." Except that dumb old US Constitution... (and Bill of Rights).

Idiot.

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:46:39 PM
Once upon a time the tax on the wealthiest was much higher and everyone was better off for it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I simply cannot understand a movement that wants to go back socially to the 1950s, but not economically...

EgalM
Male, 30-39, Canada
 1710 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:46:32 PM
@intrigid , Me thinks you just answered your own question by proving the point.

EgalM
Male, 30-39, Canada
 1710 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:44:51 PM
If I had to guess, and I do, I'd think the issue is the dividing of groups and treating them differently. Instead try treating everyone like they were equals regardless of wealth. Why do welfare cases get money back at tax time, when all year long they are given others taxes. I don't buy the excuse that they have to treat the rich better or they will just leave. There is no way all business's are going to pack up and just leave the country.

I guess at this because I'm Canadian and treating the classes more equally seems to work ok for us, granted we are much smaller population.

SmagBoy1
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4243 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:42:48 PM
Yeah, right. Clearly, a 3% wealth tax would absolutely destroy the weakling super wealthy and cause the poor, poor bastards to stop investing (what little they currently do) in our country. Whatever. When 30 people control more wealth than 150 million, and they're ostensibly citizens of the same country and economy, there is NO excuse. None.

intrigid
Male, 18-29, Canada
 916 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:41:44 PM
What the hell do idiots like this think is going to happen when interest rates rise?

American's aren't living beyond their means? Holy f*ck! How can anyone be so ignorant?

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14367 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:36:14 PM
Well, it looks like the liberal munchkin has gone full-blown communist. It never occurs to him that a "wealth tax" would result in the complete dismantling of our means of production so it could be divvied up among the poor.

If you want to spend your life as a subsistence farmer plowing your own 40 acres with a mule, by all means, spread the wealth around. However, if you want something better, remember, it takes a rich bastard to build a tractor factory.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10272 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:28:06 PM
Then they'll just move all their money into Swiss bank accounts, and deliberately devalue their assets. Then who'll become the top 2%? Seriously, is it THAT hard to believe that there are laws that have given certain entities advantages they otherwise wouldn't enjoy? Why can't we just repeal those first?

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:55:10 PM

Nothing new. This has happened before. {Large poor population w/ a few ubber-rich}
It lead to the Russian Revolution, the French Revolution and the Shaw of Iran being thrown out.

I wonder if Americans have the balls to do what is necessary?
I doubt it.

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