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The American Health Care Mess [Pic]

Hits: 14348 | Rating: (2.5) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: Squrlz4Sale
Page: 1 2 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:51:35 PM

@MeGrendel: Going out to dine in a restaurant is worlds apart from getting an appendectomy, as you know. So far as your comparison between medical care and eating holds up, I'll say this: I have no problem whatsoever in the government using some of my tax dollars to pay for food in cases where it's medically necessary (e.g., for infants and children who are malnourished or at risk of being so).

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:50:00 PM

@Cajun: Thanks for providing the information on unnecessary government regulations. When you raised the issue in your first post, I thought you were going to list items where the government was unnecessarily stepping in to protect the patient. Yet your first two bullet points don't address that at all; rather, you are citing sweetheart legislation that was passed at the behest of the million-dollar health care lobbying industry, the first to boost hospital profits, the second to boost medical insurance company profits.

So I'm in total agreement with you on this. Both are unnecessary regulations that could and should be abolished by moving to single-payer nationalized healthcare.

As far as your third and fourth bullet points, in both cases you appear to be suggesting that new government regulations would be helpful rather than identifying existing regulations that are unnecessary.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4526 Posts
Saturday, February 23, 2013 9:22:24 AM
CreamK-"Fully privatized health care is simply immoral "

And how long before 'Fully privatized restaurants is simply immoral' then 'Fully privatized grocery stores is simply immoral' to 'Fully privatized farming is simply immoral'?

After all, Hunger is a misfortune. People who are hungry will give out every penny they and their loved have to get food.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10246 Posts
Saturday, February 23, 2013 8:00:45 AM
-Malpractice reform: Malpractice law, generally speaking, does promote quality care. But, as OldOllie and Crakr mentioned, in this case far too often it's a way of lawyers to squeeze money out of patients and doctors alike. Some states have implemented the English rule plus "early offer" laws that either discourage opportunistic litigation or encourages such to be settled quickly respectively.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10246 Posts
Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:38:11 AM
continued from the second point:

You may say these are what the exchanges are for. Sounds great except when the state sets them up they have some costly strings attached which I wouldn't mind discussing.
-Tax credit for employee provided plans: Honestly our tax code practically needs to be wiped clean. Nevertheless our third party payer system encourages hospitals to overcharge. Eliminate this and consumers can brutally punish and crush (financially speaking) insurers who overcharge and/or shirk their responsibilities to the sick/injured.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10246 Posts
Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:25:50 AM
compare this graphic's proposals to communism


I said remotely, as in if anyone was willing to go through an exercise in semantics in whether or not it would be "fascism", "communism", or just plain intrusive government nonsense.

As to the unnecessary regulations:
-Certificate of need: These regulations are supported by established hospitals in order to shield themselves from competition.
-State level mandates: Not everyone wants or needs a "Cadillac plan". Barring letting people buy barebones plans, at least lets get rid of mandates for cosmetic procedures. On top of that eliminate bans on selling insurance across state lines.

kvetcher
Male, 50-59, Europe
 167 Posts
Saturday, February 23, 2013 4:39:52 AM
One thing you may have missed. After a recent report that about a thousand people died in an English hospital from, basically, callous neglect,at least there's no Brits telling you that our National Health Service is the envy of the world.

CreamK
Male, 40-49, Europe
 1106 Posts
Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:00:53 AM
One should not benefit from others misfortunes. People who are sick will give out every penny they and their love ones have to get well. Fully privatized health care is simply immoral and using insurance agencies makes it only worse. You got two entities now that both are trying to make as much money as they can. Put privatized for-profit prisons in the mix and you got a big old mess that squeezes and destroys peoples lives, kick them while they are down for-profit. And some of you think it's ok to do so. Way to go, under-one-god-nation.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:17:04 AM

@Cajun247: You know what you did there, right? You declared my observation that right-wingers quickly cry "Communism!" whenever the U.S. health care system is criticized is "way off the mark"--and then you went on, in the same sentence, to compare this graphic's proposals to communism. Okay then.

Also, you make mention of "unnecessary government regulations" that the left "routinely ignores." Interesting. Sounds like you have at least a dozen of them that you can name off the top of your head. Can you share a few? For example, what are these unnecessary government regulations that make an appendectomy is the U.S. cost more than four times what it costs in France?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10246 Posts
Friday, February 22, 2013 8:33:54 PM
criticism of the status quo as tantamount to communism


Way off the mark, if anything it's the solutions that can be remotely construed as "tantamount to communism". Rather the left routinely ignores the negative impacts unnecessary govt regulations have on healthcare affordability. These proposed "solutions" will simply compound the problem.

VicAginal
Male, 30-39, S. America
 22 Posts
Friday, February 22, 2013 7:22:06 PM
Perhaps if we didn't have such socialized medical care (medicare, medicaid, obamacare) the hospitals wouldn't feel that they can charge whatever the hell they want.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Friday, February 22, 2013 4:21:41 PM

@FoolsPrussia: Yes, it is. It's about as mainstream and conservative a piece as you could publish while still covering the topic. Yet here on IAB, the regular right-wingers seem to view any criticism of the status quo as tantamount to communism. ~sigh~

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3398 Posts
Friday, February 22, 2013 1:18:22 PM
Squrlz, is this from the Time Magazine cover story this week?

PierreJeanFR
Male, 40-49, Europe
 1337 Posts
Friday, February 22, 2013 11:48:46 AM
Spain is going down again, badly.

Zeegrr60
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 1932 Posts
Friday, February 22, 2013 10:32:46 AM
Your insurance didn't go up this year because "Obamacare"hasn't taken effect yet. Just your insurance company screwing you. Enjoy!

papajon0s1
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 579 Posts
Friday, February 22, 2013 8:07:22 AM
Thanks to Obamacare, my insurance went up %62 in 2010 and another %32 in 2011. Last year it didn't go up at all and the way they talked about it you'd think they wanted us to do damn cartwheels! Sorry, morons, damage already long since done.

DrProfessor
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 3884 Posts
Friday, February 22, 2013 7:09:08 AM
@onoffonoffon- but you can't budget your body. If something happens out of the blue one day and you need medical care and you don't have the money to cover the cost, you're sh*t outta luck. That's why insurance exists in the first place.

It also aptly outlines the ethics at stake here: we're being preyed upon for a factor that we both can and can't control. Sure, you can watch your weight and monitor what you breathe and eat and so on and so forth...but even so, you could still be hit by a car or struck with a genetic disorder or..well, anything.

The capitalist system looks at that and says "Yes! A good way to squeeze money out of someone!"

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17035 Posts
Friday, February 22, 2013 4:53:33 AM
OldOllie is correct, Tort Reform and Malpractice Insurance Reform would go a long way toward lowering medical costs.

Lowering the amount of BS paperwork doctors have to do to get paid by insurers and medicare/aid is another. It's 2013 and doctors still have to keep paperwork files on all their patients going back a decade or more. Pharmacies computerized their files many many years ago, change the system and let the doctors do the same.

Another problem stems from hospitals charging hundreds of dollars for every little thing. Those little paper cups they give you pills in are charged as 'Medicine Dispense' for an insane $12 each. $200 for a warm blanket, $100 every time a nurse checks your pulse, temp and BP.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17035 Posts
Friday, February 22, 2013 4:52:42 AM
Obamacare will do nothing to lower costs, even the CBO now recognizes that it will cost more, 2.16 Trillion dollars more. An estimated 7 million people will now LOSE their existing insurance because of it and the lowest qualifying insurance plan will cost $20,000 a year.

Modwain
Male, 30-39, Europe
 302 Posts
Friday, February 22, 2013 12:16:21 AM
Old Ollie, comparing it to the old ussr is old politics, let me guess, you still are worried about the reds or commies to take over yur home and such?

but no one is asking for appointed ceo's. i am sure there is a good reason they get 5 million+ in wages. i mean, they are prety hands on, right? and the nurse who is slouching around should be happy with the ill concieved 41K.. makes total sence.


fact of the matter is that exorbant saleries of ceo's can never be explained, you as a customer do not benifit from it, they as ceo can ask for it cause it is given.

unfortunatly, in europe health care is getting more and more expensive too under the guisse of letting market working into the system and right from teh get go, there is no market working, kinda like the usa.

there is a lot to fix, and being more social about it as an organisation is not a bad thing. stop going for the big buck

onoffonoffon
Male, 30-39, Western US
 2118 Posts
Friday, February 22, 2013 12:14:04 AM
Actually the problem is the insurance industry. Insurance is simply a type of credit. You just start paying into it before you need it. If people paid cash then the true value of treatment would be realized.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4526 Posts
Thursday, February 21, 2013 11:04:13 PM
patchgrabber-"Incorrect. At least for Canada."

Actually, it is correct, even for Canada.

According to the site: Canada Vital Statistics - Birth Database site as of Sept 27, 2012.

"There is some inconsistency in the practice of registering these babies (of low birth weight and/or low gestation babies), even though there is a legal requirement to do so."

In other words, low weight babies are not always counted as 'live births' in Canada...even your own health system recognizes that.

TonyGCleff
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 181 Posts
Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:41:04 PM
I believe every infographic I see because I'm sure the people who are smart enough to understand and fix our problems have enough time to make these.

Solvent
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2855 Posts
Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:31:41 PM
Quick, look at the kitten!


OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14125 Posts
Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:46:17 PM
This is complete bull$#!+. Our lower life expectancy is due to our high infant mortality rate. The reason for that is we try to save very premature infants who would simple be classified as miscarriages discarded as medical waste in any other country.

The part about cost, though is correct, thanks in large part to the unholy alliance between Democrats and malpractice trial lawyers. In addition to PowerBall jackpot jury awards, people with sprained ankles are getting $2000 MRIs so doctors can cover their asses for the 1:10,000 chance the patient develops a blood clot.

As to drug prices, what's the average payout per person for bad reactions in each country?

The money spent on lobbying can be thought of as "protection" payments to an extortion racket. Do you think it's THEIR choice?

As to CEO pay, you get what you pay for.

Regarding the suggested solutions, why don't we just appoint a People's Committee like in the USSR?

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