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Angry Lady Vs Skateboarders

Hits: 9853 | Rating: (3.0) | Category: Misc. | Added by: kitteh9lives
Page: 1 24 5 6 7 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:15:29 PM

Calm down people.... Chillax!


Randy4861
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 175 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:12:30 PM
Love the fact that they post it on the internet so its much easier for them to be identified, and surely convicted if she presses the issue.
Depending on past records, and the amount of this type of problem in that community, I can see a judge make quite an example of these lads.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4377 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:11:54 PM
patchgrabber-"What a horribly bad application of my logic"

Not at all, it's much more close to what you said that your BS Cell Phone scenariol.

YOU said, 'they weren't touching her, they were just grabbing at the skateboard'. I could just as easily say 'I didn't touch you, I was just swinging my bat.'

patchgrabber-"Your blind support of this woman"

Which is way more logical than your blind support for the law-breaking, harrassing teenagers. THEY were tresspassing on private property.

patchgrabber-"I take your cell phone and you try to grab it back"

If I find your cell laying on my property, I'm under no obligation to immediately return it to you, especially if you are performing an illegal act on my property.

nettech98
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 972 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:09:18 PM
"nothing about "intent to Deprive Permanently", none of the definitions i am finding mention that at all"

Then you're not Googling hard enough!

KS: "Theft is any of the following acts done with intent to permanently deprive the owner of the possession, use or benefit of the owner's property or services:"

IL: "the person committing theft must also (a) intend to permanently deprive the owner of the use or benefit of the property; (b) knowingly use, conceal or abandon the property in such a way as to permanently deprive the owner of its use or benefit; or (c) use, conceal, or abandon the property knowing that such use, concealment or abandonment will probably permanently deprive the owner of its use or benefit. "

CA: "To prove theft, a prosecutor must establish the defendant's intent to permanently take or withhold the property owner's possession or right to the property"

etc, etc...

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4377 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:05:45 PM
CoyoteKing-" she escalated more than they did from what i saw"

Then you must have missed the part of the three teen-age guys (all bigger than her) theatening and lunging at the lady.

The FIRST escalation was when they tresspassed. The SECOND when they refused to leave when asked.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5692 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:05:29 PM
So, using your logic, I can hit you upside the head with a baseball bat and as long as touch you only with the bat, it's not assault?

What a horribly bad application of my logic. Your blind support of this woman precludes you from recognizing that even though they're dicks, these kids have rights too. I pose my previous question to you: If I take your cell phone and you try to grab it back, have you committed assault against me?

Is it her fault that the idiot values a skateboard over his person?

That's not your decision to make. The fact is that it was unlawfully taken, but you just go ahead and apply laws to whomever you think deserves them best, as is your custom.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5692 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:01:02 PM
It seems most places would consider it that.

I'd like to hear of a situation whereby someone can detain another and it's not a citizen's arrest. Your shopkeeper example doesn't apply in this case, since this is not a store and no financial transaction has taken place. Like I said, even *if* she was in the right to detain them, she didn't follow the law in doing so and as such is in violation of the law. I don't see how one is better than the other, they both broke the law and would have deserved whatever they got.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4377 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:00:53 PM
ancythat-"The kids have a right to protect themselves and their belongings "

And you think they have a right to tresspass and intimidate?

Kickan-"They should have fcuked her up."

Would have worked out much better had she had, say pepperspray, taser or .45.

jfactor-"They weren't doing any harm to anything"

Is that your proffesional opinion as a city inspector?

patchgrabber-"they weren't touching her"

So, using your logic, I can hit you upside the head with a baseball bat and as long as touch you only with the bat, it's not assault?

patchgrabber-"holding something of value to another person with the intent to make the person stay"

Is it her fault that the idiot values a skateboard over his person?

mustacatal-"Nothing wrong about skaters."

Well, except for the illegal tresspass, harassment, ganging up on an old lady and laughing at

CoyoteKing
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 2994 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:58:15 PM
"yeah...what a nice boy."

nicer than her, she escalated more than they did from what i saw

CoyoteKing
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 2994 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:57:20 PM
all i find for theft is "theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it"

nothing about "intent to Deprive Permanently", none of the definitions i am finding mention that at all

nettech98
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 972 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:53:30 PM
"Oh, so now you're saying it was a citizen's arrest?"

No I didn't use that term anywhere. It seems most places would consider it that.

It's just like in some states a store owner has the right to detain you and your belongings if they suspect you of shoplifting. Like the case of the restaurant owner (NY?) detaining a lady who refused to pay the automatic gratuity.

I don't care whether you like my interpretation versus a lawyer. In the absence of a definition of what a thing of value is, a court would have to decide. Here in NJ there is no such thing as false imprisonment by holding something of value.

As I have said before, we don't know where this took place. She could have been totally 100% right. Maybe she wasn't. But she was right WAY more than those kids were.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5692 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:42:40 PM
plausible if she had stated that it was a citizen's arrest and then told them what they were being arrested for, which she didn't. A citizen's arrest is the only legal way for a citizen to detain another citizen. Notice also how the lawyer says "something of value to another person" and you'll see why I take a lawyer's interpretation over yours.


onoffonoffon
Male, 30-39, Western US
 2095 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:39:52 PM
She is right about the trespassing. However, she is not very good at dealing with conflict.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5692 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:39:17 PM
"what you cited was a definition of the term "false imprisonment" from FindLaw. It is not a citation of a law."

I may not have cited an actual law, but here is a response from a Californian lawyer discussing false imprisonment in California saying "Another example would be a person holding something of value to another person with the intent to make them stay in a certain place, and without the consent of the person whose valuables are being held."
So I would take the word of a lawyer in this instance.

"But depending on the law where this happened, it might be her RIGHT. To detain THEM. And if taking their property effectuates that, then that is also her RIGHT."
Oh, so now you're saying it was a citizen's arrest? That might be pla

Listypoos
Male, 30-39, Europe
 2570 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:30:44 PM
CoyoteKing

"and that was they last time she was nice at all. the boys continued to reason with her and use "please" constantly"

Seriously, are you watching the same video? The guy with the camera says please a few times. The other guy tries to intimidate her physically, calls her obnoxious, and threatens to come with a sledgehammer and hit her bench.

yeah...what a nice boy.


nettech98
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 972 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:28:23 PM
"as for her obligation to trespassers? it is NOT her obligation to try to take the law into her own hands and detain property."

Obligation, no. But depending on the law where this happened, it might be her RIGHT. To detain THEM. And if taking their property effectuates that, then that is also her RIGHT.

And using that same logic, they were wrong for trying to take it back. They could have walked away and called the cops themselves. That was arguably the most serious escalation in this whole video.

"we agreed that it was mislaid property and it was her obligation to return it and not take it. since she did not return it then it is theft. "

I didn't agree that it was mislaid property (maybe yes maybe no), but as stated several times before the crime of theft has as one of its elements the "intent to Deprive Permanently – The thief intends that the owner not see or own the property ever again" Clear

CoyoteKing
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 2994 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:18:15 PM
"The very first thing out of her mouth was "Do not skateboard here PLEASE". Then "I asked you not to do that didn't I?"

Not that she has any obligation to be nice to trespassers. Would you honestly be as verbally nice confronting someone trespassing on your property? "

and that was they last time she was nice at all. the boys continued to reason with her and use "please" constantly and her answer was threats and flipping them off

as for her obligation to trespassers? it is NOT her obligation to try to take the law into her own hands and detain property. it IS her obligation to contact the authorities which i am sure we all agree she should have done from the start. it was her attitude and handling of the situation that makes her an a-hole and thus funny to see her fall on her ass at the end

CoyoteKing
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 2994 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:13:48 PM
@nettech98: we agreed that it was mislaid property and it was her obligation to return it and not take it. since she did not return it then it is theft.

nettech98
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 972 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:12:15 PM
"Are you new to legal jargon? "May" include means it does include."

Actually MAY means might. If they didn't mean 'may' they wouldn't put the word in there.

Additionally, in the US, in the absence of specific language, laws are read using the plain meaning of words. In other words, if they want to include emotional value, they have to say it.

Notwithstanding all that, what you cited was a definition of the term "false imprisonment" from FindLaw. It is not a citation of a law. It is not an example of an actual case either...

nettech98
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 972 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:06:08 PM
@coyote: "disrespectful throughout despite the kids trying to be nice (nicer) about it."

Did we watch the same video? The very first thing out of her mouth was "Do not skateboard here PLEASE". Then "I asked you not to do that didn't I?"

Not that she has any obligation to be nice to trespassers. Would you honestly be as verbally nice confronting someone trespassing on your property?

"theft of his property, because in her mind her crime is okay but theirs is not"

We already established based on the law that it was not a theft. And now you know what she THINKS just by watching a video?

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:05:47 PM

Not defending them? hahahahahahaha

It was clearly not the first time they'd been told not to skateboard there. She said that and they didn't refute it. So they knew they would piss her off. They got her wound up, laughing about it, taunting her by skateboarding in front of her.

They pulled the trigger on this woman, then whined like little girls after they set her off.
"gimmie my skateboard back. gimmie my skateboard."

They set the stage, everything that follows is their fault.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5692 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:04:39 PM
Taken in its plain reading (even though you didn't cite a law) that would mean monetary value.

Nice try but no. If they meant monetary value they would have specified an amount. Since no amount is specified it's ridiculous to think they mean only money value.

Plus your citation (which used the word MAY include)

Are you new to legal jargon? "May" include means it does include.

Listypoos
Male, 30-39, Europe
 2570 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:03:34 PM
"That retarded lady deserved it! Nothing wrong about skaters. I hope her chin is broken :D"

And you'd feel the same if it was your elderly mother who was being harassed on her own property by people skating round her yard and then refusing to leave?

yes, they did eventually say they'd leave...but only after shed asked them nicely first and they'd ignored her, then she took the skateboard and said she was going to call the police..now if these were just polite well-mannered boys would they have then threatened to smash her garden bench till they got it back?

nettech98
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 972 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:55:38 AM
cont'd:

legally justified in all her actions

madduck
Female, 50-59, Europe
 5424 Posts
Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:55:29 AM
She should have given back the board- especially as she knew they were filming. Return what you have stolen, phone the sheriff and explain. but ny holding on to what was not her property she is in the wrong. they did not do anything but try to grab their property. I get fed up with people having a go at skaters- the noise is annoying- but be polite for heavens sake.

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