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Biden Admits Gun Measures Will Fail

Hits: 13967 | Rating: (2.0) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: dognose82
Page: 13 4 5 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Kain1
Male, 18-29, Europe
 1463 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 11:58:34 AM
@HolyGod has a long history at IAB of being caught DEAD WRONG on an issue and absolutely refusing to admit it. He'll use ANY trick to avoid the remotest chance of the "other side" being correct. It's a fact.

This may be true, I have no idea. But i do know that it is completely irrelevant to what i said. You´re clearly projecting onto HG, so you don't have to give my words any thought.

whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3693 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 11:19:03 AM
@Squrlz4Sale - Exactly, he's focusing on one word and ignoring the rest which is typical.

This reminds me of the mind-boggling flow of stupidity after Obama said "Well Governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets," in one of the debates. Every single republican went apesh*t saying he didn't know anything about our military because bayonets are still issued (but rarely used, I never used mine and neither did anyone else I know) and some of the Special Forces guys were using horses in Afghanistan. Apparently they all decided that the word "fewer" is now synonymous with "none."

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 10:46:49 AM
Here's what Biden says in the first clip (I transcribed this myself from the audio):"Nothing we're going to do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that we will bring gun deaths down to a thousand a year from now from what it is now*." *Approx. 30,000 in 2010, according to the National Center for Health Statistics, CDC. (The footnote, of course, is my own.)

Most listeners have essentially discarded Biden's "fundamentally alter" words because they conflict with the point he seems to want to make, based on the rest of the sentence.

5Cats, however, is focusing on those initial words and excluding the rest, yielding: "Nothing we're going to do is going to fundamentally alter the possibility of another mass shooting...." Read that way, it does, indeed, sound as if Biden's saying "this is a waste of time."

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 10:04:26 AM
5Cats

"@HolyGod has a long history at IAB of being caught DEAD WRONG"

This is you being insane again. The only people that have ever accused me of being DEAD WRONG on something are you, or Crakr, or MeGrendel, or OldOllie. I've NEVER had an entire thread tell me I'm wrong like you are having here. In fact if you go back and read most of our election debates people chime in and agree with me and tell you that you are wrong JUST like they are in this thread.

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 9:57:38 AM
5Cats, you inspired me to send in a new word to Urban Dictionary. Sadly it was rejected:

Attentioncon

A conservative lurking in the comments section who can turn anything into a partisan argument against liberals, all for the purpose of getting attention.

Ignore that troll he's an attentioncon.

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 9:53:48 AM
It is clear to me what Biden is saying and it sounds pretty damn realistic. We're never going to be able to eliminate mass shootings but we should at least try to reduce the number of them. I just hope they are also looking into the mental health side of things. The shocking story here should be that a politician in being honest.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25283 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 9:03:22 AM
Holy f.uckballs. The stupidity is overwhelming. Let's do this in kindergarten terms.

@HG: So polite, like 'Blessed Teresa of Calcutta' (I thought she was a Saint already, not yet eh?)

@WhoDat: But the position he takes to "reduce" has proven over and over to either be useless or COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE! ie: it will make things WORSE. Trying to improve things is fine, that's not being debated. Admitting that nothing HE can do will "alter... the possibility" of further shootings is remarkably honest.
Yes that's a valid interpritation of his quote. Alter OR eliminate includes BOTH, not only the second one.

@kain1: @HolyGod has a long history at IAB of being caught DEAD WRONG on an issue and absolutely refusing to admit it. He'll use ANY trick to avoid the remotest chance of the "other side" being correct. It's a fact.

Kain1
Male, 18-29, Europe
 1463 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 6:06:58 AM
@HG: You might actually be right.. Maybe he is crazy.. Being unable to even entertain the possibility that you are wrong, even about something like the meaning of words and sentences which really isn't up for debate, may be a sign of narcissism and/or psychopathy. At least it shows a complete inability to think rationally.

5cats, i think you should maybe go see a psychiatrist.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 11:35:17 PM
5Cats

"@HG and others like him are "gun grabbers""

I have a gun. I have NEVER once advocated for taking people's guns.

"NOTHING they're going to do will ALTER the occurrence"

No. Jesus H. W. Christ. Can you not listen to a quote and transcribe it? That is not what he says. He says "alter or eliminate the possibility" because the possibility will always exist and you can't alter that. Why is this simple issue so hard for you?

"HG Always lowers himself to insults."

I am not being insulting. I truly, honestly believe you are crazy. Calling a crazy person crazy is not an insult.

"It's ALL he's got"

See this is my point. You fully believe you are right and i have NO point even though almost EVERYONE who has commented on this post, including whoday6484 and several others on your side of the issue, agree with me and think you are wrong. That is crazy.

whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3693 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 9:50:09 PM
@5Cats - No, not a separate issue, you're just making it a separate issue. It's plain & simple, right there in English. Take the f*cking blinders off and go see a doctor, I seriously think you have a problem. You and this CNN "reporter" are apparently the only people who interpreted it that way, that's your first clue.

No one's taking anything away. Like I said, I was surprised when I became a civilian that background checks, psych evals and licenses/registrations weren't mandatory. I'm for it, it proves that you are competent, capable of and responsible enough to own and operate something that can be dangerous or deadly. When you get in your car aren't you comforted by the fact that, for the most part, everyone else on the road has passed a written test, road test and eye exam to prove they can drive a 2 ton machine without killing everyone else around them?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25283 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 9:30:46 PM
@HG Always lowers himself to insults. ALWAYS! Without fail! It's ALL he's got!

Sad eh?

Name calling, insults = liberal playbook.
Every. Single. Time. @HG! Don't you get tired of being a complete jerk?

Oooo! I insulted YOU! Oooo! That "makes us even" right? Pfft. 20:1, yeah even-Stevens! Your ends justify your means @HG, just admit it!

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25283 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 9:26:48 PM
He says: "Nothing we're going to do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting"

Quoting @HG's quoting of Joe Biden.

NOTHING they're going to do will ALTER the occurance of another mass shooting. "Eliminate" is a seperate issue. See the word "or" in there? Stupid @HG...

@WhoDat: You know full well how respectful mass murderers are of "laws" right? A few more laws will stop them in their tracks? Right! Even JOE BIDEN (the guy IN CHARGE of new gun laws) doesn't think so!

So WHY place more, expensive laws on the books? Why make life less free for law-abiding citizens?

@HG and others like him are "gun grabbers" and that's all there is to it. They're happy to "remove the rights of others" because THEY know better than YOU!

synaw
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 58 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 9:19:35 PM
@whodat6484, @HolyGod - love you guys.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 8:52:42 PM
slutt etta

"crazy trumps everything. always has, always will. no matter what the PC police tell you."

Ok. I tend to agree with you. But then how do you explain the lack of school shootings or mass shootings in other countries like England or Australia? They have crazy people there too don't they?

Read this article: http://tinyurl.com/bmbt9hw About what has happened in Australia since they passed sweeping gun legislation in 1996.

Wouldn't you say that trumps your personal opinion?


whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3693 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 8:41:12 PM
@HolyGod - Nope, no bias here as I am a long time gun owner and a USMC Veteran of OEF/OIF. I also live in NY State which happens to have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. Although I think some of the sh*t I've heard coming from Washington is a bit much, like the high capacity magazines. I can understand it for less skilled shooters though, but a 10 or 30 round mag makes no difference to me, I can drop an empty mag and have a new one in with a round chambered in less than 2 seconds while still on target. I don't mind background checks, licenses & registrations or even psych evals. In fact, I was surprised that psych evals weren't needed when I became a civilian and got my concealed carry license in NY. When I start hearing the word "banned" I get fired up, but that's all. 5Cats is just on a level that is mind-boggling. I too question my own sanity when reading some of the poo he posts here!

slut_etta
Female, 50-59, Southern US
 3338 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 8:31:53 PM
if a person is out to commit a crime that causes panic and mass chaos, they will find a way, gun or no gun. the guy in aurora, colorado who shot up the BATMAN premiere boobytrapped his apartment. if his guns had jammed that night, all he would have had to do was trigger the explosive devices he already had rigged. and this is just one example of many.

if you happen to be crazy as a sh*t house rat (as my father used to say), you will find a way to further your own twisted agenda, no matter what the government outlaws, be it guns, bic lighters, or pineapples filled with C4.

crazy trumps everything. always has, always will. no matter what the PC police tell you.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 8:29:26 PM
whodat6484

I know right? Whenever I talk to 5Cats I am certain one of us is crazy. I used to engage him frequently, especially leading up to the election, and I used to stare at my screen in complete and total disbelief as if he was telling me the sky was red and being sarcastic, condescending, and belittling because I had suggested it was blue.

Just to clarify, you are against the proposed gun legislation and most gun control in general right? So it isn't as if you are biased. I don't get how this is not complete and total common sense. He in no way contradicts himself.

whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3693 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 8:20:21 PM
@5Cats - you're either trolling or f*cking retarded, probably both. They even have subtitles in the first video so you can read exactly what he says.

"Nothing we can do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that we will bring uh... uh... gun deaths down to a thousand a year from, from what it is now."

OK? Watch the f*cking video and read along if that's too much to process in your brain housing group. Now, the next clip...

"We have a moral obligation, a moral obligation, to do anything in our power to diminish the prospect that something like this could happen again."

Still with me? He says nothing will "alter or ELIMINATE" the possibility of another mass shooting (1st clip) and we have a "moral obligation to do anything in our power to DIMINISH" (make smaller, decrease,reduce, etc) the chances. HOW F*CKING HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25283 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 7:27:35 PM
You've convinced me @HG! Simply by completely altering what Joe said, you've made it make perfect sense!

Using a little, OK a LOT of imagination = solid logic!

I was a fool to actually listen to his own words! I should have "read the correct meanings" into those words, as you so splendidly have done!

So he said what he said (you don't disagree, you've quoted it yourself) but it doesn't MEAN what he said! ic...

Obviously!

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 6:57:54 PM
Holy f.uckballs. The stupidity is overwhelming. Let's do this in kindergarten terms.

Let's say there are 100 mass shootings in a year.

I say "We have a moral obligation to do everything in our power to diminish the PROSPECT that something like this could happen again" because I want to try anything to attempt to lower their FREQUENCY or ODDS OF HAPPENING.

Then I say "Nothing we're going to do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the POSSIBILITY of another mass shooting" because I know while I can try to lower the FREQUENCY or ODDS OF HAPPENING I can not alter or eliminate their EXISTENCE (the possibility that one will happen again).

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 6:57:45 PM
Then after I do some things the next year there is 1 mass shooting.

Did I "diminish the prospect that something like this could happen again"? YES I did there were many fewer shootings. Did I "eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting" NO I did not because another mass shooting did occur.

NO CONTRADICTION.

Reasonable people can have reasonable debates about the issue, but NOT about what words mean.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25283 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 6:27:33 PM
Joe Biden's (gun grabbers) solution?

SPEND BILLIONS while doing NOTHING about the probelm!

Look how well it's working in Chicago!
Look how well that worked in Canada!

Hint: It didn't do squat. Billions spent, not one single crime solved or prevented. The rights of tousands were trampled however, but that's OK because they legally owned guns! Right?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25283 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 6:22:18 PM
However that statement can be true while still trying to make the possibility as low as possible. Would you not agree?

@HG: because that's NOT what he said! He said NOTHING they do will alter the occurance of mass killings.
Right or wrong? True or false? DOESN'T MATTER! It's WHAT <HE> SAID and that's the topic of conversation here.
And it is correct! Joe Biden gets it right for a change! NO LAW will stop or even slow down a determined killer. Period.

Please give me some alternatives that you think will help the situation.

#1 Legalize Pot and end the "War on Drugs".
#2 Put actual criminals in jail, not pot smokers.
#3 With the billions saved on not enforcing idiotic laws? Increase police resources across the USA.

We've offered many solutions that are better than Joe's. His are actually COUNTER-productive...

Kain1
Male, 18-29, Europe
 1463 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 5:22:11 PM
..-(ergo, greater than 0)

10 > g > 0

Are there any numbers we can insert in the place of g, such that the statement is true?

I'm pretty sure we can all agree that there are in fact 9 such numbers.

Thus, Biden's remarks are logically compatible (do not contradict each other)

End of argument!

Kain1
Male, 18-29, Europe
 1463 Posts
Friday, February 08, 2013 5:14:31 PM
Seriously, are you guys still going on about this?? This should be really simple to resolve. All you need is a basic understanding of logic and the English language.

statement 1: We need to do everything we can to diminish the number of school shootings.

Statement 2: It is impossible to eliminate school shootings all together.

Lets express this by using mathematics.

We'll start with some arbitrary number, that will represent the current number of shootings per year. Let's take 10 for example. (this number is arbitrary and has no basis in reality. It's purely for the sake of argument)

We want to get the number of shootings to a number less than it is today, less than 10. But there is a further constraint. The number cannot be 0, because that is "impossible". (we'll ignore negative numbers since they don't make sense in this context)

Our goal, "g", is a number less than 10, but not equal to or less than 0 (ergo, g

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