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Biden Admits Gun Measures Will Fail

Hits: 13898 | Rating: (2.0) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: dognose82
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 5982 Posts
Monday, February 11, 2013 2:37:03 PM
@OldOllie: No, I don't think you're a paranoid nut. I do worry that the weapons technology being employed by our military and even police departments has gotten so advanced that citizens simply couldn't offer any meaningful resistance to it, if they ever needed to.

Your thoughts?

Kain1
Male, 18-29, Europe
 1463 Posts
Monday, February 11, 2013 12:10:35 PM
@McGovern: There is a much much longer list of countries with very strict gun laws where nothing like that ever happened.. I'm not gonna write one here, you obviously have google too.. That, by itself, renders you point fallacious..

Furthermore, you still need to demonstrate at the very least a single case, where civilians averted genocide by being armed with guns. Which never happened.. Making your point even more fallacious..

It's hyperbolic bullpoo aimed at making people afraid and compliant..

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 12719 Posts
Monday, February 11, 2013 6:00:07 AM
@Kain1

Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao there's a pretty big list of exactly what OldOllie is talking about.

Kain1
Male, 18-29, Europe
 1463 Posts
Monday, February 11, 2013 3:00:46 AM
Godwin's law strikes again...

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 11741 Posts
Sunday, February 10, 2013 9:24:40 PM
@Squirrels, BTW Germany outlawed private ownership of guns, and they ended up murdering 11 million people. That's why we will NEVER give up our guns -- we will not be put on a train and taken to be slaughtered like cattle.

Now, tell me I'm a paranoid nut; then try to imagine yourself saying that in 1936 Germany.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 11741 Posts
Sunday, February 10, 2013 9:19:20 PM
@OldOllie: Oh, c'mon, do you really think that? Thought experiment: Let's say you prohibit virtually anyone, aside from the police and the military, from owning guns of any kind. (Not that I'm in favor of that.) You really think there wouldn't be a reduction in the number of gun homicides?

Actually, I'd wager that they would go UP. Law-abiding citizens would turn in turn in their guns, but criminals would not. That would leave the rest of us as defenseless as fish in a barrel.

But let's say that you actually could confiscate ALL the guns, even from the criminals. How are you going to keep illegal guns out of the country? If the government can't stop millions of illegal aliens and tons of illegal drugs from coming in, how do you expect them to stop guns?

Crooks will ALWAYS be able to get guns. If they have to smuggle them in, though, they might as well go for fully automatic AKs. That would NOT be an improvement.

Suicism
Male, 18-29, Western US
 3658 Posts
Sunday, February 10, 2013 5:28:46 PM
Nice - I agree with Joe on this one. Very telling.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21968 Posts
Sunday, February 10, 2013 9:19:29 AM
@WhoDat: America is 10X as big as Canada, about 70% of our economy depends on the USA, and almost everything America does ends up happening here too.
Plus Canadian politcis is BLOODY boring!

@Squrlz: The gun murder rate dropped a bit in Canada, but overall it stayed about the same. People used knives a lot for murder even before the registration. In Australia it remained level.

In the USA the gun murder rate would drop, sure, but overall I think it'd stay about the same. Other weapons would be used. And gang-bangers would still be shooting each other, like in Chicago.

Kain1
Male, 18-29, Europe
 1463 Posts
Sunday, February 10, 2013 4:02:45 AM
WIN!
NEXT!



wauw.. impressive... Am i supposed to cower back to my cave now?

I'll give you, that he formulates it in a weird way. Mavbe he wanted to sound cool or something. But it's pretty clear to me that what he meant by "fundamentally alter the possibility" is clarified in his next words:
"or guarantee that we will bring [uh uh] gun deaths down to a thousand a year from, from what it is now."

- Which would be about a 95% reduction.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 5982 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 11:22:44 PM
@OldOllie: Oh, c'mon, do you really think that? Thought experiment: Let's say you prohibit virtually anyone, aside from the police and the military, from owning guns of any kind. (Not that I'm in favor of that.) You really think there wouldn't be a reduction in the number of gun homicides?

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 11741 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 10:57:04 PM
...no prohibitions are going to reduce the number of gun homicides to zero.

Leave off the words "to zero," and you would have a true statement.

whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3344 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 9:24:39 PM
@5Cats - Nope, I'm not a fan of cats. They're too arrogant thinking they run sh*t and it annoys me.

I just don't understand why people, not just you, are so immersed in what goes on here. It's like the Americans who worship celebutards and are always up in their business, but it's Canadians or Europeans who are all watching us. My mother's from Greece and she gets all the Greek channels on her dish, when I'm at her house I'm amazed at their news coverage. There were all those riots in Athens, city burning to the f*cking ground, politicians fighting and robbing the citizens of their pensions, huge f*cking mess. Even then, more than half the sh*t on the news is about what's going on over here! I just don't get it, it's crazy!

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 5982 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 9:21:42 PM
Just to be clear here: Although I can see how some of you are focusing on the "This is all a waste of time" reading of Biden's utterance, I think that was Biden basically clearing his throat and working up to the point he was really trying to make: that no prohibitions are going to reduce the number of gun homicides to zero.

Frankly, I think he thought the words "fundamentally alter" sounded impressive so he said them as he was trying to figure out how to say what he meant.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 11741 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 8:30:37 PM
HG, there's no point in arguing with you. You're obviously suffering from the late stages of chronic concrete brain syndrome: all mixed up and permanently set.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21968 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 7:52:36 PM
I dare you!
I double dog dare you!
Watch those two videos and NOT crack a smile? It's impossible!

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21968 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 7:38:18 PM
@WhoDat: I like you, really I do!
We've both been in the military. We're both opinionated SOB's!
I have no tattoos... do you have cats? I forget.
Meanwhile: I see your
"Get A Job" and raise!

Eating Paste? You'll have to do MUCH better than that to get under MY skin Bro!

PS: @madest OFTEN used the "your a Canadian" arguement as a last resort. I sincerely hope you're not nearly as STUPID as @madest, eh?

Hint: "Brookers" > Anything you can post... pure genius!

whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3344 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 6:01:24 PM
@5Cats - You live in CANADA, you're CANADIAN, why the f*ck do you feel the need to be one of the most vocal people here when it comes to AMERICAN politics & legislation that has absolutely no effect on you personally, as well as your country?

I've said it several times before and here it is one more time. It's quite obvious that you love to argue about anything & everything so you might as well get a job here, you'll make a killing.

p.s. adding "WIN!" & "NEXT!" at the end of an argument doesn't mean you won. We're not in grade school. If we were, you'd most definitely be the kid eating paste and shoving crayons up his nose.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21968 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 4:53:46 PM
@Kain1: So Joe Biden is an idiot who doesn't understand the English language? And you're defending him? After all, HE is the one who says "altering... the possibility".

You're proving (in your own mind) that I'm wrong by proving that HE'S wrong?

WIN!
NEXT!

Kain1
Male, 18-29, Europe
 1463 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 4:05:16 PM
Probability and possibility are SYNONYMS yes?


No.. Probability refers to likelihood of an event. Possibility refers to if an event is possible or not.
Ex: "It is entirely possible that i will win the lottery tomorrow. It is, however, extremely improbable."

That is not a matter of opinion. And yes, you are still dead wrong, in the factual sense. Please come back to reality.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21968 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 1:45:56 PM
...alter the likelyhood (it's another synonym!) of a future event.

Unless you can "read Joe Biden's mind" and KNOW what he INTENDED? Our opinions are both valid.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21968 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 1:42:59 PM
@HG: If there "is no range" how could he "alter" it at all?
If he's talking about "altering the possibility", which he clearly IS, then he is indeed talking about changing the "possible likelyhood" of another mass killing. This is the entire point of making new gun laws!

If I flip a coin, how many "possible outcomes" are there? 2! Heads OR tails, correct? Each has a "range" of 50%. If I could "alter the possibility" then it wouldn't be 50-50 anymore.
Probability and possibility are SYNONYMS yes?

That's how I read it. Like it or not.

"eliminate" is a completely different subject! EVERYONE AGREES that "eliminating" all future mass shootings is... IMPOSSIBLE! So I'm discussing the word "alter" and the idea that "gun laws" can alte

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 5982 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 1:30:13 PM
@HolyGod: Actually, I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's the word "possibility" that was tripping me up in my interpretation of the anti-gun-control reading of that sentence. In that instance, I was reading it as synonymous with "likelihood," which it isn't.

Honestly, it's a bit tricky.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4469 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 1:15:40 PM
5Cats

"I am refering to the FIRST part (alter)"

OK. Last time. Here is the quote: "Nothing we're going to do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the POSSIBILITY of another mass shooting"

Definition of possibility: 1. the state or fact of being possible 2. something possible

So you CAN NOT ALTER the fact that it WILL BE POSSIBLE.

Hence nothing we're going to do is going to fundamentally alter the possibility.

I think the problem here is that you think "possibility" means the odds of something happening or the frequency. Either something IS possible or it ISN'T possible. The possibility EXISTS or it DOESN'T. There is no range. He is simply admitting that the possibility will always exist and can not be altered.

Do you understand now?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21968 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 1:07:14 PM
@Kain1: Explain to me how I am "dead wrong" for having a different opinion than you or others who post here?

OPINIONS! Mine may be different than yours and we could BOTH be correct, eh?

NOT according to @HG of course, ONLY HIS opinion is correct. Anyone who disagrees must be INSANE!

Oh BTW @Kain1: Your 10 > g > 0 example? It refers to the SECOND thing Joe says (eliminate), I am refering to the FIRST part (alter), so it's MOOT. I am not arguing with the second part of it at all, get it now?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21968 Posts
Saturday, February 09, 2013 1:00:04 PM
It is clear to me what Biden is saying and it sounds pretty damn realistic. We're never going to be able to eliminate mass shootings but we should at least try to reduce the number of them.

@markust: I've said repeatedly that Joe is correct. What I've objected to is:
- Liberals spinning for Joe: "He didn't mean THAT! He meant to say this!"
- Joe's support of stupid, counter-productive measures which are purely political.

I've NEVER had an entire thread tell me I'm wrong like you are having here.

@HG: Being truthful or not is based on a vote now? Calling someone names = logical arguements now?
I CAN SEE your point, DUH! I just don't agree with you. You & @WhoDat are saying that his "overall message" is not altered by a mis-spoken word. I know, I know! I still disagree.

Thanks @Squrlz, I appreciate the support

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