 Tekinette
Male, 18-29, Europe
 255 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 12:01:39 PM
Canada has 3 times less intentional homicides than the US but let's just ignore facts and fight to be able to live in a society where being safe means having to carry a weapon...
Let's post this video and ignore the fact that everything he said is wrong, there were more mass shootings in the 80s and 90s than 2000s. Only the number of death increased thanks to the modern rifles you can buy.
Also dictators are usually elected or put in place thanks to the milita... And when a dictator is removed the biggest problem is the different militas trying to put their own dictatorship. |
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 MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
2331 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 12:01:25 PM
patchgrabber-"Well to be fair the 2nd is the only one that concerns weapons, the rest are mainly procedural."
Oh, it specifies that you must have weapons?
No, it prohibits the government from infringing upon an individuals right to keep and bear arms.
It's as procedural as the 1st being about printing presses and churces. The first says the government will not outlaw your printing press, the 2nd your firearms.
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 Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
25610 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 12:01:19 PM
@ sparki, your brought a man-with-a-knife video to a gun fight?
Do you want to ban knives next? How many senseless knife deaths will we tolerate before we BAN those items. Knives are designed for cutting flesh! blah blah blah |
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 scapegoat7
Male, 18-29, Western US
200 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 12:00:24 PM
keep the guns, do background checks! |
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 CoyoteKing
Male, 18-29, Southern US
2993 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:57:27 AM
@PG: Terrorist attacks in the US scroll through the list and use ctrl+F to search "bomb". it happens a lot, not always successful or super deadly but it does happen a lot. btw this list does include domestic terrorism like Newtown and Aurora. you will see that guns are not the problem, its crazy people |
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 McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
10208 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:56:19 AM
@MeGrendal
In Utopia you have to license your TV! |
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Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
25610 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:55:25 AM
The value of human life?
If you value your own life so little that you risk loosing it by me shooting you when you crawl in my window, then how is that my fault? |
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McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
10208 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:53:27 AM
@sparki1980
Gee now I thought it was illegal to carry a knife over a certain size in The peoples Republic of the UK? How's that working? Guess will have to make more laws to get to Utopia!! |
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 patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5263 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:53:22 AM
@MeGrendel: Well to be fair the 2nd is the only one that concerns weapons, the rest are mainly procedural. |
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 Limiteded
Male, 30-39, Western US
30 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:51:03 AM
I think another problem with the argument made regarding value of human life (or lack thereof) is defining what is being protected. Americans are not shooting home invaders to protect a television. You don't know if someone is invading to steal, kill, or return your missing keys.
Were it the latter case, I doubt anyone would invade.
What you are protecting is not objects. You are protecting sanctity. |
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 gary8162
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
655 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:50:43 AM
Only in America does someone think it's al right to kill a burgler.
@ Canoas: Do you really think the 15 year old knew it was burglars? When someone is breaking into your home, you don't take the time to interview him to discover his intentions. (Oh, your here for the tv? Right this way.)You always assume the worst then act accordingly. You have to be a special kind of stupid to really believe the sh*t you're spouting. |
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MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
2331 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:50:26 AM
madduck-"I was amazed to discover you do not even need a bloody license to own a gun."
Do you need a license to purchase a computer, newspaper or to attend church?
Do you need a license to keep the military from housing soldiers in your home?
Do you need a license to not be unreasonbly searched and your stuff seized?
Do you need a license to invoke your Fifth Amendment rights?
Do you need a license to be tried in public by an impartial jury, be confronted by your accuser or to obtain counsel?
Do you need a licenes to be guranteed a trial by a jury of your peers?
Do you need a license to not be imposed excessive bail or fines, or to not suffer cruel and unusual punishment?
So, if I'm not required to obtain a license to excercise my rights as recongnized by the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th & 8th Amendments of the Bill of Rights, why should I need on for the 2nd? |
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CoyoteKing
Male, 18-29, Southern US
2993 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:50:14 AM
@spark: "the lack of controlling the flow from registered to unregistered. Which currently can happen easily thanks to the gun show loophole. "
thats now how gun shows work. you seem to be sadly misinformed and led to believe that just anyone can show up and leave with a gun in their hands. |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5263 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:49:45 AM
@CoyoteKing: But that's my point, you can only really find one. Now you are correct it had a very high death toll, but if you look at other countries that have banned guns your argument doesn't bear out. There have been no bombings that weren't terrorist related in Australia since their gun ban, iirc. |
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Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
25610 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:47:38 AM
sparki, my point was the UK doesn't allow guns but has more violent crime. So the logical conclusion is that gun control = less violence ?
Howzat again? |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5263 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:47:11 AM
You do realize your own country has more violent crime than the US even with your tight gun control?
Once again, this cannot be determined on the loose definition of "violent crime." You can only compare specific crimes. |
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CoyoteKing
Male, 18-29, Southern US
2993 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:46:15 AM
"Possibly, but then why have there been virtually no mass bombings in the US? If they're so easy to make and so much more effective than guns, why haven't we seen more of them?"
19 Apr 1995 - Oklahoma City bombing 169 killed, 675 injured. i would wager that was just more effective that any all the mass shootings combined in the last 20 years
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 sparki1980
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
293 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:45:07 AM
Gerry1of1: "You do realize your own country has more violent crime than the US even with your tight gun control? "
Do you realize how much more blood there would be if their country let ppl have guns?
Case in point - imagine this guy with a gun |
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securitywyrm
Male, 18-29, Western US
87 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:44:37 AM
"If we inconvenience them enough, then they'll stop the behavior!" "Yeah because that worked so well in Afghanistan and Iraq." |
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McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
10208 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:42:48 AM
I was amazed to discover you do not even need a bloody license to own a gun.
You most certainly do in my state.
"no one in their right mind values their computer/tv/etc over a human life."
Wow hey look a European giving up and letting others dictate their lives. Lets value criminals lives more than victims what could go wrong with that!! |
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MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
2331 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:42:12 AM
Steelgrid-"I dont really understand the absolute "NEED" for guns."
There IS no 'absolute need'. Some people do not need guns. Some people do need guns. It's up to the individual.
What everone of them have, is the RIGHT to own them (unless they have proven otherwise).
Mikeoxsbiggg-"Just because you CAN have a gun dosen't mean you need one."
And just because you don't NEED one doesn't mean you can't HAVE one.
Need is not required.
sparki1980-"must be regulated by the government"
Where do you get the asanine idea that the term 'well regulate' in the 2nd Amendment has absolutely anything to do with Government regulation? |
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Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
25610 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:39:33 AM
madduck, "it is ludicrous you really allow any person to have a gun. no wonder you are in so much crap "
You do realize your own country has more violent crime than the US even with your tight gun control?
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 whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
2243 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:37:33 AM
@Canoas - "no one in their right mind values their computer/tv/etc over a human life."
I'm sure that a significant amount of home invasions and burglaries quickly turn into rape, homicide, or other violent crimes. In cases where a criminal breaks in thinking no one's home and is then startled to see that they are, their first instinct would be to silence the witness. |
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sparki1980
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
293 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:37:31 AM
Gerry1of1
"Okay, then why is Chicago statistically one of the most violent cities in the US? It has the strictest gun control laws."
1) What are the statistics of gun registrations vs those with guns in Chicago, cause that's really the only stat that you can use to argue against my point.. because:
2) The stat referred to was about exceptionally small number of gun crime committed by registered gun users, and my point was the lack of controlling the flow from registered to unregistered. Which currently can happen easily thanks to the gun show loophole.
3) The time needed for an unregistered person to drive out of the city of Chicago to a place that is less regulated and buy a gun (now taking him out of the 1% stat mentioned) is minimal.
QED) Now due to lack of gun control, you have an unregistered gun owner living in chicago... And as pointed to by the stat I was referencing - most gun violence is committed by the unregistered. |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5263 Posts
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Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:32:05 AM
Okay, then why is Chicago statistically one of the most violent cities in the US? It has the strictest gun control laws.
Problem is, you cannot think of Chicago itself as an isolated system. When you have a number of shall issue states bordering Illinois, I would assume the number of illicit guns that make their way into the city is considerable. Without a federal law that applies throughout the country, no one place in the US is a closed system. Chicago's laws were doomed to failure from the start. |
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